Help with Mother in Law

[perplexed]

I met a divorced LDS woman about 3 years ago. Her husband had cheated on her for over a decade and was not a supportive parent. After they divorced she was left to raise 4 very unruly children on her own. These children had significant behavioral issues and were in constant trouble at school for stealing, disrupting class, poor grades, and violence.

The child of most concern was her 10 year old daughter who could be so violent that my wife used to have to barricade herself from inside her bedroom until help could arrive (the daughter used to chase her mother with a hammer). My observations, during our dating period, told me that she had a very permissive parenting style that she had learned from her own parents. In fact, because she was spending so much time in college to try to finish her degree, her parents contributed significantly to the rearing of the children.

I love her parents very much. They are good people. My mother in law is in the Stake Young Women's Presidency and my father in law is on a Stake High Council. But their permissiveness with the grandchildren was shocking to me. The children would kick them without the grandparents responding with discipline. The children painted the floors in the home and destroyed things without the parents saying anything to them about it. All along my in-laws quoted scriptures and General Authority talks to justify their permissiveness. For example, my father-in-law reminded me that President Hinckley said one of the worst things his father ever did to discipline him was to give him a disapproving look. I pointed out that the young Hinckley was unlikely punching his father or painting the family walls with green spray paint and so a disapproving look was sufficient.

In the end, it was necessary for my wife and I to move further away and forge our own family unit, putting some needed distance between us and the Utah family. The oldest daughter was being expelled from her school for refusing to abide by school rules and it was a good chance for us to start over in a new place.

While my 3 stepsons have adapted well to our new family, my stepdaughter has not improved her behaviors. My wife chose to home-school her for 2 years because the girl will not comply with authority. The stepdaughter has been extremely abusive to my wife for as long as I've known her. She screams and tantrums at the slightest provocation and truly brought great distress into our home. Because of the family dynamic, almost all discipline with the stepdaughter has been done through my wife rather than from me. My role has largely been to be supportive.

But I just can't countence my wife being so denigrated by her daughter in my presence and a few times spoke with firmness to her about how her behavior is unacceptable. This infuriated the child who is wholly incapable of accepting counsel. She began to secretly communicate with her grandparents in Utah, telling them she was being abused through our allegedly ultra-restrictive rules. Behind our backs, my mother in-law was giving my stepdaughter, now 14 years old, emotional support and empathy that emboldened the child's defiance. She became increasingly hateful toward everyone in our household. She wouldn't participate in FHE or family activities with us. She was also calling her father in Utah to lament to him how awful her life was. Any attempt we made to gain control of the situation only gave the child more fodder to justify her position that we were abusing her. We prayed, read books on parenting, sought counsel from leaders and did all we could but none of it had a discernible impact on her.

The final straw was when my wife told her that because of her continuing hostility it would be necessary to discontinue home school and to enroll her in public school the coming year. When my wife refused to consent to the child's demand that she be permitted to skip a grade, my stepdaughter stormed out of the house - went to a complete stranger's home in our subdivision whom none of us knew - had a sobbing fit while accusing us of abusing her - and used the stranger's home as a haven to call her father using the cell phone she had just stolen from her mother when she left the house. In front of this stranger she spent the next 2 hours begging her father to let her come live with him. Unbeknownst to us, the father called my mother in law in Utah who generally supported premise that the child was in a "bad situation" - suggesting that we were too harsh or restrictive on the child and ignoring the child's lifelong history of attempts to have her way in all situations.

In the end, we knew that if something wasn't done that either the father or the child herself was going to make some kind of report to Child Protective Services against us. We also knew that even though there was absolutely no evidence, no witnesses, no proof of any kind - save the word of this child only - that we were doing anything abusive, there is a real threat to the authority of parents if social services thinks a child is being mistreated. We decided that the best thing we could do for the next few months was to have the child go stay with her father in Utah.

Our problem has not improved, however. Since the child has been in Utah with her father for the last few months, she has spent a significant amount of time with her grandparents who are lavishing her with praise, money, gifts, trips and attention. In the meantime, my other stepchildren who have been good, obedient children, are getting relatively no attention from their grandparents. They are seeing their sister getting a lot of attention and gifts as a result of her willful defiance of her parents.

The larger issue for us, though, is that the child is not learning any accountability for her selfish actions. Being sent to her father's home, where she truly does not want to be, was meant to be a consequence of her own poor choices. The temporary isolation from our family unit was meant to create in her a craving to rejoin our home with some measure of penitence or humility. But because of the overabundance of time and attention from her grandparents, the child has only become more defiant toward us and has absolutely no desire to rejoin our family. My wife has spoken to her mother ad nauseum about this and has clearly and respectfully asked her mother to stop gossiping with the child and to put reasonable limits on the fun excursions and adventures so that the child may experience a twinge of isolation from the family. The mother always agrees to my wife's requests, but absolutely will not abide by her word. She continues to "spoil" the child, give her a sympathetic ear to the child's outrageous lies and to interfere with our objectives for the child. This behavior by my wife's mother has caused my wife incredible distress. Such a contentious relationship has never been a part of their lives, but it is currently poignant and distressful.

Here I am. The son in law who loves his wife and cares for her children - and I don't have a clue what to do. Can anyone help with some kindly advice on what my focus should be through all this or how I should conduct myself?

[pam]

Has the daughter been diagnosed with ODD? Kids with ODD often do many of the things that you describe and doesn't always have to do with parenting styles.

[Hemidakota]

Have you spoken to your Bishop for help - meaning - directing you to family services for help for the kids? Also, welcome to the forum...

How to contact us

[perplexed]

The other 3 children have adapted extremely well and have we have no concerns with them. They are well rounded and happy kids. They just needed a solid, two-parent home with love and structure.

The children's father has bi-polar, as does his mother and father. There is a possibility that much of my stepdaughter's behavior is related to a mental disorder. We have suggested this to her father and have asked for his cooperation in supporting our desire to have her evaluated - but he disagrees. His position is the same as his daughters, namely, we are just restrictive and oppressive parents.

Because of the child's threats to tell potential therapists lies about us, including stories of abuse, we are afraid to take her without having more family support. A therapist is under legal obligation to report claims of child abuse to social services - and my stepdaughter has already shown that she is willing to make up stories to get what she wants. Before she was expelled from her charter school in Utah, she was one of a group of girls who wrote a letter to the principal accusing their teacher of sexually molesting them. This was their revenge against the teacher for his attempts to compel their proper classroom behavior. Such an accusation against me (or an accusation of physical abuse against my wife) could have significant ramifications and be extremely detrimental to our other children.

[perplexed]

Our Bishop has been able to offer moral support and priesthood blessings, but LDS family services is not an option in the part of the country we presently live.

[Hemidakota]

PM with your location but not your address. Let me see if there is an option to help you.

[Hemidakota]

The other 3 children have adapted extremely well and have we have no concerns with them. They are well rounded and happy kids. They just needed a solid, two-parent home with love and structure.

The children's father has bi-polar, as does his mother and father. There is a possibility that much of my stepdaughter's behavior is related to a mental disorder. We have suggested this to her father and have asked for his cooperation in supporting our desire to have her evaluated - but he disagrees. His position is the same as his daughters, namely, we are just restrictive and oppressive parents.

Because of the child's threats to tell potential therapists lies about us, including stories of abuse, we are afraid to take her without having more family support. A therapist is under legal obligation to report claims of child abuse to social services - and my stepdaughter has already shown that she is willing to make up stories to get what she wants. Before she was expelled from her charter school in Utah, she was one of a group of girls who wrote a letter to the principal accusing their teacher of sexually molesting them. This was their revenge against the teacher for his attempts to compel their proper classroom behavior. Such an accusation against me (or an accusation of physical abuse against my wife) could have significant ramifications and be extremely detrimental to our other children.

How old is the child?

[pam]

The child of most concern was her 10 year old daughter

Already mentioned. :)

[perplexed]

The child of concern is my stepdaughter...now 14 but will be 15 in a few months.

Also, in response to my area - we have an LDS Family Services office a few hours away. They have limited options for us because of the distance. I have shared my concerns with the counselor assigned to our Stake and he is willing to meet with us, however he has said that our needs would be better met by working with a practice that is qualified to diagnose mental health disorders. He also advised me to be very careful because if my stepdaughter chooses to spite me by accusing me of doing something inappropriate with her that the therapist would be under obligation to report the accusation to child protective services. Though my stepdaughter has never hinted at making that accusation of me, she has done so with her teacher.

In fact, my wife and I had decided on a contingency plan long ago that should this child ever start making such accusations that we would have to have her go live with her father for our own safety. When she ran off the last time to a stranger's home and accused her mother of emotional abuse, it made us feel that it would be better to preempt an even worse accusation by sending her temporarily to her father's home in Utah.

[Hemidakota]

What I was referring too, did the Bishop considered outside help beside family services? Another option for you, the Bishop may need to seek aid support from the Stake and Church Headquarters, to send her to one bordering schools that help children with these type of symptoms. There is one located in Utah area.

Did she receive a blessing for this problem?

[pam]

I hope you are able to get the help you need. Hang in there.

[Maureen]

How old is the child?

perplexed said:

....my stepdaughter, now 14 years old,....

M.

[perplexed]

I have not heard of the bordering schools you mentioned. Where can I learn more about them?

My stepdaughter has not received a blessing for the problem. She refuses to acknowledge there is a problem. The times the Bishop tried to meet with her she refused to go in to the appointment. The last time she accepted any blessing was when a member of the Bishopric set her apart as a member of the Laurel (I think) class presidency. He invited me to come join in the blessing but, in front of everyone, she said she didn't want me to participate. It was very humiliating for me in front of so many other parents and youth.

What is distressing to me is that regardless of these obviously inappropriate behaviors, my mother in law, who is otherwise a wonderful and active LDS woman, sees my wife and I as being the source of the friction with the stepdaughter. Her contention is that if we would just give the child the things that she demands that the problems would go away. We know from experience, however, that rolling over to the selfish demands of an out-of-control child is inappropriate. It reinforces principles and behaviors that we don't agree with. For example, when the child screams a demand to her mother it doesn't matter what the demand is. We won't consider her demand while she is screaming. We ignore her until she can speak to us with a tone of respect. My mother in law's actions in this situation are the opposite. She will grant the child her demands as quickly as possible and tell us that her actions were scripturally based (Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art in the way)... she is a good, temple going woman but is very permissive in her parenting style. We choose to parent our children differently.

My primary concern that I'm addressing to the group is not so much what should we do with the child, but how do I, as the head of my household, handle this situation with my wife's mother. I've read some counsel that it is the proper place of my wife to deal with her mother rather than me having any interaction in the matter.

[Hemidakota]

By what I have read, by helping the child, you will help the mother-in-law. I will look...

[marshac]

A classmate of mine last year had similar problems with her 13 year old daughter- she would drink, hang out with guys MUCH older than her, would tell strangers that her mom was abusing her, etc- at several points the police became involved. The mom was a very strong willed woman herself and was more than willing to go toe to toe with her daughter and wouldn't back down. She was introduced at some point to the "Parenting with Love and Logic" book and swore it worked once she started using it.

I would find a therapist, explain the situation, and then bring the daughter in- she isn't the first child to invent stories about abuse, and i'm sure any therapist with enough experience can probably tell the difference between actual and fictitious abuse. Also- when the daughter goes completely nuts to the point that your wife fears for her safety, call the police- the fact that my classmate had reported her daughter to the police previously quickly resolved the question of abuse- it was clear that the child, not the parent, was the one with issues.

[Just_A_Guy]

Such an accusation against me (or an accusation of physical abuse against my wife) could have significant ramifications and be extremely detrimental to our other children.

And that, IMHO, is the determinative factor. It's hard to cut off a daughter, but her lies and threats boil down to a danger to the security of your other three stepchildren. She's got to go--period. The fact that she has loving (if gullible) grandparents who are willing to take her, I think, makes it easier. Let them deal with the monster they've created.

Sometimes kids need to run wild for a while before they realize what schmucks they've been; and all you can do during that period is to hunker down and protect yourself.

As for your own personal relationship with your in-laws: I agree that this is primarily your wife's call. For your part, I'd suggest being polite and appreciative that they've taken your step-daughter. But, however well-intentioned their actions, you now know that they are the kind of people who will undermine your relationship with your children and will even deliberately cause division between the children themselves. That's just plain toxic, and I think you're best off minimizing contact with them.

[Hemidakota]

Remember, with any advice that is given over the internet, you need to pondering it and pray for guidance by the Spirit for the answer. I have given you location but this may require for both of you make that decision.

[marshac]

My primary concern that I'm addressing to the group is not so much what should we do with the child, but how do I, as the head of my household, handle this situation with my wife's mother. I've read some counsel that it is the proper place of my wife to deal with her mother rather than me having any interaction in the matter.

So you want to be the head of the household, but when a matter arises that affects your status as such, you expect someone else to do the job for you? Honestly, it seems like it's perfectly within your job description to tell the grandmother to butt out as it pertains to the parenting of your child- her actions are directly undermining your (and your wife's) role as the final authority as it pertains to family issues. You can discuss the matter with your wife and make sure she's on-board with your course of action, but I don't see it as necessarily being your wife's responsibility to tell your in-law to step-off.

[Suzie]

Perplexed, your step daughter truly sounds bi-polar, particularly also the fact that her father is bipolar. It is not her fault. She needs to be evaluated right away and medicated. Things CAN get better. This isn't really a issue where grandparents should be involved, this is an issue where her mother and biological father should get together and agree on this. IF the father does not want to do it, I am pretty sure there must be a legal way to get the child evaluated.

[Suzie]

Honestly, it seems like it's perfectly within your job description to tell the grandmother to butt out as it pertains to the parenting of your child- her actions are directly undermining your (and your wife's) role as the final authority as it pertains to family issues. You can discuss the matter with your wife and make sure she's on-board with your course of action, but I don't see it as necessarily being your wife's responsibility to tell your in-law to step-off.

Ummm...the child in question has a biological father.

[marshac]

Ummm...the child in question has a biological father.

My parents had a saying- "our house, our rules"- yes, the biological father should be involved in the matter of therapy, etc, but when it comes to factors affecting the family under the OPs roof, he and his wife should always be the final authority- appeal to outside entities isn't an option.... otherwise it becomes a game of "i'll ask dad after mom has already told me 'no'"

[Suzie]

My parents had a saying- "our house, our rules"- yes, the biological father should be involved in the matter of therapy, etc, but when it comes to factors affecting the family under the OPs roof, he and his wife should always be the final authority- appeal to outside entities isn't an option.... otherwise it becomes a game of "i'll ask dad after mom has already told me 'no'"

Touché.

I was referring to medical attention for this child that seem to have a mental illness. I believe it's a decision of the mother and the father.

[Sali]

This all sounds too familiar.

As a Counselor myself, I know that if a child comes to me with accusations of abuse, I would do my utmost to make sure that it was a truthful allegation. It's not always taken at face value that the abuse did happen. Therapists are well aware of these kind of situations and are trained to act accordingly.

I have a son, whom we adopted. He is 13 years old. He has ADHD, ODD and Bipolar. Your step daughter sounds quite similar to him. His biological mother has Bipolar disorder, it is very common to be passed down genetically. You need to get this child medicated and treated, otherwise this child has a high risk of ending up suicidal, on drugs or in jail. I cannot emphasis enough how important this is. This child is seriously at risk and needs intervention; medication and therapy.

If you are living in the home with this child, step child or not, you have a responsibility and a say. This is your life too. I also have a problem with permissive grandparents and if you had to, you cut contact until you can get her diagnosed etc. You may need to look at hospitalisation (my son just recently spent 3.5 weeks in a psychiatric unit), but it is for her benefit. Sometimes, unfortunately children with these type of disorders just cannot live in the home. Your step daughter sounds very manipulative which is another sign.

Please help this child before it is too late. It's going to be a very painful journey and in some cases you may need to be firm and harsh. But for her benefit and the family, it needs to be done.

[rameumptom]

I suggest you learn some patience in this. Let your daughter spend time with her father and in her stage of rebellion. Eventually, it will become like the Prodigal Son, and she will see her way back. Sometime in her life, the father and grandparents will realize that she must make her own way in life, and it will be a major learning experience for her. So, let her have the experience and the consequence of it.

My 3 stepkids fought me quite a bit. Eventually, we allowed my two stepsons to live with their Dad (one at a time). It was hard for us to see them drift into inactivity, etc., with him. Still, they eventually had major falling out with him, and came back. One eventually went on a mission after moving back in with us. The other is sealed in the temple and raising his children much like we raised him.

And the kids (who live out west, while we are in the Midwest), call us daily.

[Moksha]

I would be happy getting a break from that daughter. Eventually, such continuing bad behavior will prompt those promoting it to reevaluate the situation.

Do not really see any easy answers to this. Some people in life will never accept advice or help till they hit rock bottom.