An open letter to President Obama from Jon Voight

[bytor2112]

:):):):patriot:

An open letter to President Obama from Jon Voight - Washington Times

*edit* © Copyright 2010 The Washington Times, LLC.

Edited June 23, 2010 by pam

[Just_A_Guy]

Hard to leap to Jon Voight's defense after that September Dawn catastrophe.

But in this case, I think he's more or less right.

[beefche]

What is your source for that quote?

[bytor2112]

What is your source for that quote?

Jon was at my home for dinner last night.....

[beefche]

Jon was at my home for dinner last night.....

Cool! How are Brangelina and the kids?

Thanks.

Edited June 23, 2010 by beefche

[john doe]

I've never really thought much about this, but maybe it's worth discussing. How much has or will it affect Obama's popularity with Hollywood if he does not do more to stand behind Israel? There are a lot of prominent Jewish people who have loud voices in the entertainment community. I've always been under the impression that while the Hollywood establishment doesn't back religious values much, you better be careful what you say about Jews around them or you may find yourself blackballed and unable to get a job. Will there be a backlash against Obama, or will Hollywood bite its collective tongue and support the common goals of socialism and progressivism.

[Moksha]

You are putting Israel in harm's way, and you have promoted anti-Semitism throughout the world.

How was it that Jon Voight also put it? "Mormons do your duty." He is so sensitive about religious people not being stigmatized, or at least some of them not being stigmatized. Some might see this as hypocritical claptrap on the part of Mr. Voight.

Of course, that sensitivity ends at the Arizona border in Jon Voight's estimation.

[john doe]

Okay Mocks, I'll admit it. You lost me at 'religious people' and equating it to Arizona's border. I wasn't aware that the Arizona border had anything to do with religion.

[Moksha]

Okay Mocks, I'll admit it.

Actually, the shortened version of Moksha would be Mok. Mocks would be a form of mockery as in the usage of the sobriquet Mocks. Your usage of this term introduces a bit of appreciated irony.

You lost me at 'religious people' and equating it to Arizona's border.

In his letter, Mr. Voight made mention of both anti-semitism and that President Obama was defending murderers and criminals who want Israel eradicated. In the very next sentence after speaking of the religious people - the Jews, Mr. Voight talks of the conflict in Arizona, accusing President Obama of defending Mexicans who he say's are criminals and illegals and are "creating a meltdown for good, loyal, law-abiding citizens". Is the relationship between the two directly from the letter in question clear now?

[john doe]

Actually, the shortened version of Moksha would be Mok. Mocks would be a form of mockery as in the usage of the sobriquet Mocks. Your usage of this term introduces a bit of appreciated irony.

Oh, y ou don't need to play that tune. We all know that your chosen username is pronounced Mocks Ya. I believe you chose that name purposely because it alludes to what you attempt to do here.

In his letter, Mr. Voight made mention of both anti-semitism and that President Obama was defending murderers and criminals who want Israel eradicated. In the very next sentence after speaking of the religious people - the Jews, Mr. Voight talks of the conflict in Arizona, accusing President Obama of defending Mexicans who he say's are criminals and illegals and are "creating a meltdown for good, loyal, law-abiding citizens". Is the relationship between the two directly from the letter in question clear now?

I do see the tie-in of defending yourself from invaders, whether they are crossing an ocean or a river. I just wasn't aware that anyone seriously thought that the Arizona thing was religious persecution.

[NeuroTypical]

My claim to LDS apologetics fame: I once spanked Voigt and Chris Cain (the screen writer) on the nationally-syndicated Hugh Hewitt AM radio talk show. I was on hold listening to the show for almost an hour, and was almost brought to tears by the powerfully moving patriotism coming from the interview with Voigt. It's an interesting feeling, calling someone to the mat publicly while at the same time feeling strong respect for a different aspect of the man.

LM

[mightynancy]

I just wasn't aware that anyone seriously thought that the Arizona thing was religious persecution.

Religious persecution, ethnic persecution, to-may-to, to-mah-to.

[Just_A_Guy]

Religious persecution, ethnic persecution, to-may-to, to-mah-to.

Would you classify the Battle of Little Bighorn as "ethnic persecution" on the part of the Lakota and Cheyenne against Anglos? I strongly doubt it.

If the Native Americans were justified in killing to prevent European cultural expansionism, then why isn't the US justified in using deportation to counter Latino cultural expansionism?

[john doe]

Religious persecution, ethnic persecution, to-may-to, to-mah-to.

Really? So this insistence that immigrants follow the law is rooted in ethnic hatred? Hmmm, I have known many legal immigrants, most of whom are of Hispanic and Latin American origin, who despise those who circumvent the laws to come here to live. Are these people traitors to their race or ethinic background?

[Sali]

Really? So this insistence that immigrants follow the law is rooted in ethnic hatred? Hmmm, I have known many legal immigrants, most of whom are of Hispanic and Latin American origin, who despise those who circumvent the laws to come here to live. Are these people traitors to their race or ethinic background?

I detest it because it cost me a few thousand dollars, plus I had to have shots to come here legally.

[mightynancy]

Our immigration policy is ethnic persecution. It isn't as easy as "Just do it legally!" by filling out a form and getting a plane ticket. It can take many years and thousands of dollars, which many (most?) distressed families don't have. I'm just not a fan of "I was born here. Screw you!" Sorry, I'm touchy...I live in a hotbed of anti-immigrant self-righteousness.

[bytor2112]

Our immigration policy is ethnic persecution. It isn't as easy as "Just do it legally!" by filling out a form and getting a plane ticket. It can take many years and thousands of dollars, which many (most?) distressed families don't have. I'm just not a fan of "I was born here. Screw you!" Sorry, I'm touchy...I live in a hotbed of anti-immigrant self-righteousness.

The Arizona laws doesn't say that.......perhaps if someone...anyone.... on either side of the aisle would tackle the issue....less people would suffer and could come here legally and the riff raft that is destroying Arizona could be dealt with effectively.

[Moksha]

Oh, y ou don't need to play that tune. We all know that your chosen username is pronounced Mocks Ya. I believe you chose that name purposely because it alludes to what you attempt to do here.

I usually ignore such attacks, since I view them as a form of apologetics. However, try this pronunciation:

Mok as in Smoke but without the S

Sha as in Shaw. Put them both together for Moksha. Moksha is a Hindu word, that in many ways would have its analog in the Buddhist's Nirvana and the various Abrahamic religion's Heaven.

------------------------------

So how would thoughts as expressed by John Doe and Bytor of dealing with the "riff-raft invaders", mesh with the Church's missionary work in Mexico and they're willingness to use missionaries who lack proper documentation?

[Just_A_Guy]

Did I just hear Moksha imply that Church policy is infallible, and invariably reflects the mind and will of the Lord?

And did I just hear Moksha imply that the Church ought not to allow people it knows to be sinners, to participate in its work?

Moksha?

[bytor2112]

So how would thoughts as expressed by John Doe and Bytor of dealing with the "riff-raft invaders", mesh with the Church's missionary work in Mexico and they're willingness to use missionaries who lack proper documentation?

Perhaps re-reading my quote would help. Making legal immigration easier is GOOD...the riff raft I was referring to = BAD...ya know...drug smugglers and general societal degenerates? You do understand that is the problem in Arizona...don't you?????

[john doe]

So how would thoughts as expressed by John Doe and Bytor of dealing with the "riff-raft invaders", mesh with the Church's missionary work in Mexico and they're willingness to use missionaries who lack proper documentation?

I don't call them 'riff-raft', or even riff-raff, but they are here illegally, so I guess that would technically make them invaders, wouldn't it? How would I handle it? I would ask them to obey the laws of the land, as the church indicates its willingness to do in article of faith #12.

I fear we've strayed quite far from the OP. If you wish to start a discussion about the church and obedience to the law, I suggest you start a new thread.

[Hemidakota]

Our immigration policy is ethnic persecution. It isn't as easy as "Just do it legally!" by filling out a form and getting a plane ticket. It can take many years and thousands of dollars, which many (most?) distressed families don't have. I'm just not a fan of "I was born here. Screw you!" Sorry, I'm touchy...I live in a hotbed of anti-immigrant self-righteousness.

A simple violation of the land does makes a difference for me in whether or not this person can be counted on when our country may need him or her to stand up for the cause of freedom.

I am first generation American on my mother's side of the family, even among my siblings. Legality a born American and raised in both countries but attaining citizenship through proper channels. They need to seek the same. If not stay home.

My own relatives sought to come to America legally and after one year, departed on good terms to their own native country.

I for one believe Arizona is doing what is necessary to govern their own border. On the other hand, California is filled with cowards and liberals in standing up dong the right. Arizona believing it or not, is practicing the same type of laws what is seen in Mexico. Hard to believe, go their and check it out. But, see what happens when Central Americas enters southern Mexico illegally? You may be surprised...too bad a few bad apples (children of illegals) spouting off their mouths don't do the research of their parents native land before embarrassing the family name.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Hemidakota

[mightynancy]

If not stay home.

That's the "screw you" I was talking about. :)

[NeuroTypical]

I grew up being taught MightyNancy's take on things. I've since done a 180. I'm no longer a victim of guilt due to birth or owning fruits of hard work. I no longer fear the threat of being labeled with no end of insulting monikers, from uncaring to bigot to selfish to evil.

There is nothing wrong with demanding people follow the law. There is nothing wrong with refusing to accept those who don't. If laws are unjust or insufficient, fix them. The MightyNancies of the world, bereft of anything resembling a logical counter-argument, will only be able to fall back on their unchristlike, unrighteously judgemental, uncharitable insults. Phooey. I've never said "screw you" to anyone in need. But as every year goes by, I say it more and more to stupid arguments.

LM

[Just_A_Guy]

In America, all things considered, we've got a pretty good thing going. We've got a first-rate economy, a functioning democratic republic that is relatively free of corruption, and a culture that most of us like.

Quite bluntly: if you want that to continue, you're going to be hesitant about letting in people who are from third-world economies, corrupt states, and/or cultures with values that to some degree clash with our own.

The process should probably be streamlined--a lot--but I think it's cultural suicide to allow unfettered immigration of people who (for example) have zero marketable skills, accept political thuggery as a way of life, or have been brought up to believe that domestic violence is perfectly acceptable.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Just_A_Guy