How to stay uninvolved? in divorce drama in the ward

[crazypotato]

Hopefully I don't sound too nosy or gossipy when I post this.

A couple in my ward is going through an ugly divorce. They have 4 kids - two teenagers and two little kids that are the same ages as my kids. The little kids go to the same primary classes as mine and one is in the same school class.

The father has a big mouth about his divorce and tells random people in the hallway intimate details of his marital problems and divorce, unasked for. I don't know if he is is just miserable and doesn't know what to do, or if he is trying to smear his wife because all of the talk is about her leaving. The mother is a very quiet, private person and stopped going to church when they separated. They keep separating and getting back together on and off.

The father has a completely, completely different story as for why they are divorcing and the mother (who few people know because she is really quiet and private) confided in me her reasons.

So people in the ward are helping with childcare and dinners, off and on, as she leaves, them stop when she comes back, and most people feel really sad for the kids and sorry for the couple and I don't really think anyone is gossiping. (long story, sorry!)

Anyway, the two little kids came running up to me today and said, out of the blue, "We don't have a mommy anymore. The boogeyman came and stole her from us. She lives in a scary house with a scary guy and no furniture." All I could do is hug the kids and then change the subject.

What the heck? I am tired of hearing the dad blabbing about what a horrible wife she is to everyone in the ward (in front of the kids. too) and telling his kids crazy things about her, when I know her side is that she is scared of him and he won't let her have the kids, he is telling everyone that she has abandoned them.

Do I just completely stay out of this or say something to someone? I am guessing stay out of it completely, but this is going on and on and on in the ward and although I think people don't really want to be involved in someone's personal business, we are hearing about it, unasked, at church and in the neighborhood, and I am listening to these kids saying awful things.

Ugghh!! I wish I could help those kids. . .

[pam]

Tough situation there. Someone needs to rein him in. At least for the childrens sake. Part of my divorce decree is that neither one of us could speak in a derogatory fashion about the other party in front of the kids. Easier said than done but I tried really hard while they were young. Now that they are much older, they have figured things out for themselves.

Seems to me if this is happening regularly in church, the Bishop needs to have a little talk with him.

[prisonchaplain]

One of the most basic self-defense moves is called "Let the force pass." When an assailant comes at you swiftly move out of the way and let him or her by. You seem to perceive that the guy is largely at fault, and that may be. Why the courts would give him custody vs. the mother is a huge question though. And, in reality, we really don't need to know. Just be sweet to the kids, and help as you can. People hurt differently. The mother closes in, the guy talks to anyone who will lend an ear. We may prefer one approach over the other, but if the bishop knows anything about it and chooses not to intervene, why should anyone else?

[crazypotato]

I don't necessarily think the divorce is all his fault, but he is the one being really vocal about it and trying to talk to everyone about it, while his kids awkwardly stand there.

I guess I will just keep them in my prayers and keep my nose out of it.

The divorce is not final so he has the kids. She has no high school degree and according to her, she left them with the dad because she has zero money. I guess it is a good thing I am not a bishop because I would not like hearing about all of these horrible problems and divorces, and I definitely do not like watching ugly things happen to little kids and just stand there watching it. That's life, though, I guess.

[prisonchaplain]

I seem to recall that the mother was scared of this man. If she really thinks he is capable of harming her, then what of the kids? She may need to think long and hard about fighting for their custody--even if it ultimately means going on some kind of assistance. Also, the guy's choice to indiscriminately badmouth in front of the children and to mere acquaintances is poor. What would be best is if the bishop or a trusted male friend could counsel him about showing some discretion. I just doubt that such advice would be well received if it came from a female, or from someone he was not close to or respected.

[Wingnut]

How long has this been going on? Obviously the husband is a loudmouth, but is he intimidating to those around him? Would it make a dent at all if you (and several others) began cutting him off by simply stating, "Dave, I know it's a tough situation that your family is dealing with right now, but I'd prefer not to hear about it, especially while at church." Would that help at all, or is he the type to turn things around and make you a bad guy?

If that wouldn't work, it seems to me that the best course of action might be to talk to the bishop and explain your concerns -- without bias as to who is at fault in the divorce -- about the damage this does to the kids and how you (and others) are uncomfortable hearing it week after week. Ask the bishop for advice. Don't necessarily ask him right away to talk to the guy, but ask him if he has any suggestions for you.

[Tarnished]

Let me tell you a story. There once was a couple who lived in a ward we attended, the wife was a wonderful woman who did so much service to those around her not a person could question her intentions. The husband on the other hand had a tendency to speak badly not only of his wife but also of church leaders and church schools. Nearly all their children had medical problems.

While they lived in our ward the husband tried numerous times to defame his wife in the eyes of the ward. But it did not work because everyone knew who she was and what she was really like. So he found a new job in a different state and arranged for a move. When the move happened he set it up like this. He moved out to the new location first and was out there for about a month before the rest of his family followed. While he was in the new location he attended church and spoke to everyone about his wife, poisoning the entire ward against her. When the rest of his family moved out he immediately filed for divorce against his wife.

He made sure that he got custody of his children claiming that his wife had a disease where she was making the children sick just so she could get attention. (much like the woman in "6th Sense") Then he took the children and poisoned them against their mother. The wife stayed in the same area and attended the same ward for awhile, but eventually things became too much. At one point she came to church for Mother's day and her son walked up to her and said straight to her face, "What are you doing here you b*$^#?" Eventually the sickest of their children (a girl who was my age) died, the girl was about 21 when she passed away. The father didn't want the mother to know and tried to hide the information from her so that she could not attend the funeral. Thankfully a friend of the mother had received the info and gave it to the mother so she could attend. The mother still does not have access to her children and at this point most of them have been poisoned against her.

I don't know if the situation above could have been changed by someone else stepping in, I do know that it required a ward who believed the BS the husband was spewing against his wife. It required him to move to a place where no one knew his wife so that he would be able to defame her in the public eye. He tried it in the initial ward (the one I grew up in) and it did not work. The whole situation reminds me of the situation you are sharing.

This woman should not have her children and the ward poisoned against her, because even if people seem to be not talking, human behavior says they are, and even just a little gossip can damage her reputation forever.

[Guest mirancs8]

Let me tell you a story. There once was a couple who lived in a ward we attended, the wife was a wonderful woman who did so much service to those around her not a person could question her intentions. The husband on the other hand had a tendency to speak badly not only of his wife but also of church leaders and church schools. Nearly all their children had medical problems.

While they lived in our ward the husband tried numerous times to defame his wife in the eyes of the ward. But it did not work because everyone knew who she was and what she was really like. So he found a new job in a different state and arranged for a move. When the move happened he set it up like this. He moved out to the new location first and was out there for about a month before the rest of his family followed. While he was in the new location he attended church and spoke to everyone about his wife, poisoning the entire ward against her. When the rest of his family moved out he immediately filed for divorce against his wife.

He made sure that he got custody of his children claiming that his wife had a disease where she was making the children sick just so she could get attention. (much like the woman in "6th Sense") Then he took the children and poisoned them against their mother. The wife stayed in the same area and attended the same ward for awhile, but eventually things became too much. At one point she came to church for Mother's day and her son walked up to her and said straight to her face, "What are you doing here you b*$^#?" Eventually the sickest of their children (a girl who was my age) died, the girl was about 21 when she passed away. The father didn't want the mother to know and tried to hide the information from her so that she could not attend the funeral. Thankfully a friend of the mother had received the info and gave it to the mother so she could attend. The mother still does not have access to her children and at this point most of them have been poisoned against her.

I don't know if the situation above could have been changed by someone else stepping in, I do know that it required a ward who believed the BS the husband was spewing against his wife. It required him to move to a place where no one knew his wife so that he would be able to defame her in the public eye. He tried it in the initial ward (the one I grew up in) and it did not work. The whole situation reminds me of the situation you are sharing.

This woman should not have her children and the ward poisoned against her, because even if people seem to be not talking, human behavior says they are, and even just a little gossip can damage her reputation forever.

That is just the most horrible story I have heard. My heart just breaks to hear this!

[Guest mirancs8]

Hopefully I don't sound too nosy or gossipy when I post this.

A couple in my ward is going through an ugly divorce. They have 4 kids - two teenagers and two little kids that are the same ages as my kids. The little kids go to the same primary classes as mine and one is in the same school class.

The father has a big mouth about his divorce and tells random people in the hallway intimate details of his marital problems and divorce, unasked for. I don't know if he is is just miserable and doesn't know what to do, or if he is trying to smear his wife because all of the talk is about her leaving. The mother is a very quiet, private person and stopped going to church when they separated. They keep separating and getting back together on and off.

The father has a completely, completely different story as for why they are divorcing and the mother (who few people know because she is really quiet and private) confided in me her reasons.

So people in the ward are helping with childcare and dinners, off and on, as she leaves, them stop when she comes back, and most people feel really sad for the kids and sorry for the couple and I don't really think anyone is gossiping. (long story, sorry!)

Anyway, the two little kids came running up to me today and said, out of the blue, "We don't have a mommy anymore. The boogeyman came and stole her from us. She lives in a scary house with a scary guy and no furniture." All I could do is hug the kids and then change the subject.

What the heck? I am tired of hearing the dad blabbing about what a horrible wife she is to everyone in the ward (in front of the kids. too) and telling his kids crazy things about her, when I know her side is that she is scared of him and he won't let her have the kids, he is telling everyone that she has abandoned them.

Do I just completely stay out of this or say something to someone? I am guessing stay out of it completely, but this is going on and on and on in the ward and although I think people don't really want to be involved in someone's personal business, we are hearing about it, unasked, at church and in the neighborhood, and I am listening to these kids saying awful things.

Ugghh!! I wish I could help those kids. . .

This is a tough situation. Sounds like my STBX actually though he doesn't go to my church but he trash talks me to anyone who will lend an ear AND to our children. It's horrible. Children should never be put in the position to pick a parent. No matter what is going on between you and your STBX you must keep the childrens interest and happiness a priority. Trashing one parent in the end will make you look bad. Eventually the kids grow up and they figure it all out on their own. I know I did.

Me personally I would see the advice of the Bishop. Just to make him aware and to ask him how he thinks it would be best to handle it. It would be good for the Bishop to know at least.

My heart breaks for those children. It's very sad how ugly these divorces become and how many times the children are used as a tool.

[crazypotato]

How long has this been going on? Obviously the husband is a loudmouth, but is he intimidating to those around him? Would it make a dent at all if you (and several others) began cutting him off by simply stating, "Dave, I know it's a tough situation that your family is dealing with right now, but I'd prefer not to hear about it, especially while at church." Would that help at all, or is he the type to turn things around and make you a bad guy?

If that wouldn't work, it seems to me that the best course of action might be to talk to the bishop and explain your concerns -- without bias as to who is at fault in the divorce -- about the damage this does to the kids and how you (and others) are uncomfortable hearing it week after week. Ask the bishop for advice. Don't necessarily ask him right away to talk to the guy, but ask him if he has any suggestions for you.

It's been going on for over a year. I don't find him intimidating, but before, when they were together, he seemed overly controlling. For example, his wife mentioned in passing that he would not allow her to paint the walls in her kitchen.

If he tried to smear me, I don't think anyone would listen or care. The ward does talk, because we keep getting asked to provide meals and childcare, and I hear things like, "Well, I just can't believe she would abandon her kids like that. But then she was only 16 when they were married. . ." Without wanting to break her confidence, I just keep saying, "there are two sides to every story and more we don't know, and her side is completely different than his." But once I opened my big mouth with the comment, "Any man in his early 20s that wants to marry a 16 year old (she wasn't pregnant) is a red flag to me and seems pretty creepy." So I guess my gut is telling me that he is trying to control the situation into making her look so bad that he can have full custody of the kids, and everyone will feel sorry for him.

Edited July 20, 2010 by crazypotato

[crazypotato]

Let me tell you a story. There once was a couple who lived in a ward we attended, the wife was a wonderful woman who did so much service to those around her not a person could question her intentions. The husband on the other hand had a tendency to speak badly not only of his wife but also of church leaders and church schools. Nearly all their children had medical problems.

While they lived in our ward the husband tried numerous times to defame his wife in the eyes of the ward. But it did not work because everyone knew who she was and what she was really like. So he found a new job in a different state and arranged for a move. When the move happened he set it up like this. He moved out to the new location first and was out there for about a month before the rest of his family followed. While he was in the new location he attended church and spoke to everyone about his wife, poisoning the entire ward against her. When the rest of his family moved out he immediately filed for divorce against his wife.

He made sure that he got custody of his children claiming that his wife had a disease where she was making the children sick just so she could get attention. (much like the woman in "6th Sense") Then he took the children and poisoned them against their mother. The wife stayed in the same area and attended the same ward for awhile, but eventually things became too much. At one point she came to church for Mother's day and her son walked up to her and said straight to her face, "What are you doing here you b*$^#?" Eventually the sickest of their children (a girl who was my age) died, the girl was about 21 when she passed away. The father didn't want the mother to know and tried to hide the information from her so that she could not attend the funeral. Thankfully a friend of the mother had received the info and gave it to the mother so she could attend. The mother still does not have access to her children and at this point most of them have been poisoned against her.

I don't know if the situation above could have been changed by someone else stepping in, I do know that it required a ward who believed the BS the husband was spewing against his wife. It required him to move to a place where no one knew his wife so that he would be able to defame her in the public eye. He tried it in the initial ward (the one I grew up in) and it did not work. The whole situation reminds me of the situation you are sharing.

This woman should not have her children and the ward poisoned against her, because even if people seem to be not talking, human behavior says they are, and even just a little gossip can damage her reputation forever.

Well, that is a sad story. That is the only problem I have, is I don't know the full story. There are lots of divorces where the spouses bad mouth each other afterwards and have custody battles, and since I don't know everything, who am I to butt in with my opinion to the bishop, without looking like this busybody nosey creepy neighbor. My heart hurts for her kids that think that the boogeyman took her away. She took her two youngest the frist time she left him, but she had to live with family that didn't want her there, and now, according to her, she has no high school degree and has never had a job before, and her husband uses that against her. Everything she says about him is that he is controlling and keeps her with him because she can't make it on her own. But his story is that she found a scuzzy guy on facebook and left him for another man. So who knows, maybe she did do that and maybe he isn't controlling? I am not a RS president or YW president, or Primary president, so should I say nothing?

[mightynancy]

I would tell the bishop and the RS president what you know and what you have observed, express that you're concerned, and leave it in their court.

We used to have a woman in our ward who would constantly badmouth her husband's ex (the mother of her stepson) right in front of the boy. EVERY time I'd interrupt her with, "Well! She can't be all bad, just look at this fantastic boy she brought into the world!" It may help the kids in your situation to hear that...and at the very least it'd probably get this jerk to avoid you.

[Wingnut]

I am not a RS president or YW president, or Primary president, so should I say nothing?

What do any of those things have to do with being a good friend?

[crazypotato]

True,

A good friend doesn't just sit and watch her friend's family get destroyed.

I had a dear friend that announced to me she was leaving her husband for another man. After I lectured her about how stupid she was being, we were never friends again, but then I don't care because she never ended up leaving her husband.

Edited July 20, 2010 by crazypotato

[crazypotato]

I would tell the bishop and the RS president what you know and what you have observed, express that you're concerned, and leave it in their court.

We used to have a woman in our ward who would constantly badmouth her husband's ex (the mother of her stepson) right in front of the boy. EVERY time I'd interrupt her with, "Well! She can't be all bad, just look at this fantastic boy she brought into the world!" It may help the kids in your situation to hear that...and at the very least it'd probably get this jerk to avoid you.

That may be best. I just talked to the Compassionate Service lady today about them because she feels kind of like, why do we have to keep bringing meals every time the mom leaves?and added she had no idea what was going on with the family, but then made the comment - I can't believe she would do that to her kids. I just said, "she is a very quiet and private person but has her own side to the story."

Maybe I just need to tell the RS Pres and she can share with the bishop and then I can leave it be. And I like your idea of what to say to the kids, too.

My parents were divorced, and my dad publicly badmouthed my mom, and then I saw the ward turn on her, so maybe my worry was I was getting too involved in this since I have been through similar myself.

[Guest Alana]

Any time anyone, including the husband, brings it up I'd just be verbal about not wanting to hear it, the whole thing reeks of contention and gossip. Making a comment like that even when you're among friends who support the wife can have a huge impact as each member of that conversation find the strength to make similar comments in the future. He may be the one bad mouthing the wife unfairly, but conversing amongst each other about how unfair he is to do this is kind of the same thing. You didn't say you were doing this. I'm just saying that anytime the subject comes up, (unless you're the relief society president or bishop and have help requested of you) I'd just totally knock it down to the ground. Don't fuel this gossip in any way and hopefully one or two or maybe even more people will have the strength to say this to his face when he brings it up.

[crazypotato]

Any time anyone, including the husband, brings it up I'd just be verbal about not wanting to hear it, the whole thing reeks of contention and gossip. Making a comment like that even when you're among friends who support the wife can have a huge impact as each member of that conversation find the strength to make similar comments in the future. He may be the one bad mouthing the wife unfairly, but conversing amongst each other about how unfair he is to do this is kind of the same thing. You didn't say you were doing this. I'm just saying that anytime the subject comes up, (unless you're the relief society president or bishop and have help requested of you) I'd just totally knock it down to the ground. Don't fuel this gossip in any way and hopefully one or two or maybe even more people will have the strength to say this to his face when he brings it up.

Oh, no I did gossip about him once. I admitted it. I made a remark about why would a man in his 20s marry a 16 year old. Now you have got me back into the drop it and stay out of it mode.

[its_Chet]

What the heck? When did crazypotato get banned? And why?

[Dr T]

I wanted to tell her something too and saw she was banned. I asked the same as its chet in my mind.

[Guest mirancs8]

I'm shocked! I can't imagine why anyone would have banned her. I was wondering the same thing because I haven't see her post in a while.