converts leaving the church

[dahlia]

I was surprised to learn that a good number of converts don't stay converted. Some anti-Mormons use this info to refute the Church's membership numbers or that people finally 'wake up' and realize that Mormonism isn't what they thought.

So my question for today is twofold: Do you think it's true that many converts leave, and if so why? It takes a lot to change one's religion; why would one go through all of that just to leave the Church? I guess I'm looking for possible landmines.

Second, considering how America-focused the Church is, to what do you ascribe the growth of the Church world-wide? Why would an African or Latin American want to be a Mormon? As a former Catholic, I find it amazing that so many in the Catholic countries have left the Church and become Protestant. When I was growing up, we used to pray for the conversion of the world back to Catholicism; it is very hard to imagine people leaving in such large numbers to become Protestant, and yet they do.

So with this in mind, and referring back to my original question, do you think people with such backgrounds and without connections to the US and the pioneer history are more likely to revert after conversion?

Do you see the Mormonism changing with so many members outside of the US?

Thanks again.

[Wingnut]

Second, considering how America-focused the Church is, to what do you ascribe the growth of the Church world-wide?

Truth.

[pam]

Second, considering how America-focused the Church is, to what do you ascribe the growth of the Church world-wide? Why would an African or Latin American want to be a Mormon? As a former Catholic, I find it amazing that so many in the Catholic countries have left the Church and become Protestant. When I was growing up, we used to pray for the conversion of the world back to Catholicism; it is very hard to imagine people leaving in such large numbers to become Protestant, and yet they do.

I ditto what Wingers said. Truth. Truth doesn't change from country to country. The LDS Church is the same no matter the country. Doctrine doesn't change country to country.

[prisonchaplain]

LDS membership is now slightly over half non-U.S., if I'm not mistaken. My own church is headquartered in a town that is 140K, and about 98.6% white. Yet our membership is now 95% non-U.S. I often do wonder what it is that specifically draws internationals. One Filipino told me that it was our missionaries continuing belief in the supernatural, including the demonic, and their willingness to engage in spiritual warfare against that which is evil. Some modernists would dismiss all such as superstitious and primitive. Perhaps the LDS missionaries are also more open the spiritual worldviews of other lands.

[crazypotato]

Yes, I have heard a lot of converts go inactive after converting. I think that there are a number of reasons why this happens.

I can't tell why people leave, but I know in some cultures, they never really converted to get baptized. For example, my dad served a mission among Native Americans on a reservation and said that they would baptize just to be polite to the missionaries and that they believed in lots of different religions at once. They had lots of members on their rolls that never came, but if he asked them to come, they would say yes to coming and yes to doing a calling, just to be polite, and then never do it.

I think to become an active member is usually a large lifestyle change for people, too, and maybe they are not ready for it. I really don't think it has anything to do with them not believing anymore, but maybe having to make so many big changes, like having a calling, going home and visiting teaching, paying tithing, giving up drinking, smoking, and coffee, just being immersed almost in a totally different culture than what they are used to?

[UrbanFool]

There is also the fact of the LDS keeping a lot records that other churches can only guess at. If I hadn't converted, I would still mark on a form that I was Lutheran although I had not been to that church for 30 years.

I was well aware of the life changes of the church years before the missionaries showed up at my doorstep. I think the quitting cigarettes has been the hardest, although coffee is nearly neck and neck. That's not because I think I need my caffeine in the morning to wake up, but I have enjoyed iced cafe mochas just because they're wonderful, or the odd caffee Diablo. It's strange to think of them as sinful literally rather than figuratively.

[rameumptom]

Many people do leave the Church. Most, though, just stop attending, though still maintain their belief.

For those who completely leave the Church, I think it is due to the same reasons people leave any Church. 1. They disagree with the doctrines. 2. They've had a negative experience with members or leaders. 3. They are not living consistently with the commandments (morality, etc) and choose to withdraw.

The reality is that there are more Christians and other religious people that leave their churches to become Mormons than there are Mormons leaving the church to join other religious or atheist groups. I'm thinking it is most often for reason #1, they agree with the LDS teachings, and therefore disagree with some teachings of their old faith. I can't imagine someone joining the LDS Church due to some immoral issue they are involved with....

[ryanh]

Hummm. I think that most people that try to stop smoking give up their efforts and go back to the ways they are used to, and don't make that big change in their lives the first time they try.

So, does that prove that smoking cessation is bad for one's health and lifestyle?

A pretty foolish argument.

Major life changes are not so simple. Many simply don't have the fortitude to do it. Not all ground the sower casts seeds upon is fertile ground.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while

(see Matthew 13:1–9, 18–23)

[kimiko]

As a recent convert, I've felt and observed that a lot of new members are left hanging once baptism and confirmation have been completed. You go from constant contact with at least the missionaries to basically nothing. It's like, "Yay! You're baptized; it's such a blessing," and that's it... At least that is how it was for me.

Apparently there are "new member lessons" that are suppose to help people make the transition into LDS, but I never received those. I've been a member for a year now, and I still haven't received a visit from my home teacher. It wasn't until 7 months after I joined the church that I finally learned what visiting teaching was, and the teacher who was assigned to me never called or visited. She would just copy the message out of Ensign and send it to me in the mail.

I'm not sure if other new members in our ward are experiencing the same situations, but I have noticed that within a month or two of someone's baptism, I stop seeing them at Sacrament meetings.

There have been several times I've considered leaving the church because of problems like these. I don't really feel like I fit in and that everyone has forgotten about me since I joined the church. But the truthfulness of the church keeps me a member. I remind myself that people aren't perfect, and while the people of the church may have overlooked me since my baptism, the Lord hasn't forgotten about me, and I still have a purpose here.

[FunkyTown]

Kimiko:

You're not alone in this. I have a family of people who are good friends of mine. They just received their first home teachers they've had since before I was baptized.

I was baptized 8 years ago.

It's tough, Kimiko: I'll admit that. You feel like you're lost, or alone, or forgotten. You aren't.

The first year after you're baptized, things get tough. Don't give up on it. There are people who care and people who love you, even if it's difficult at times. Don't be afraid to ask for help when you face difficulties; Everybody needs a hand sometimes, even the most spiritually strong-appearing member in your ward.

I've been through it. :) I know what you're going through and you're certainly right that it gets difficult, but you don't have to do it alone.

As a recent convert, I've felt and observed that a lot of new members are left hanging once baptism and confirmation have been completed. You go from constant contact with at least the missionaries to basically nothing. It's like, "Yay! You're baptized; it's such a blessing," and that's it... At least that is how it was for me.

Apparently there are "new member lessons" that are suppose to help people make the transition into LDS, but I never received those. I've been a member for a year now, and I still haven't received a visit from my home teacher. It wasn't until 7 months after I joined the church that I finally learned what visiting teaching was, and the teacher who was assigned to me never called or visited. She would just copy the message out of Ensign and send it to me in the mail.

I'm not sure if other new members in our ward are experiencing the same situations, but I have noticed that within a month or two of someone's baptism, I stop seeing them at Sacrament meetings.

There have been several times I've considered leaving the church because of problems like these. I don't really feel like I fit in and that everyone has forgotten about me since I joined the church. But the truthfulness of the church keeps me a member. I remind myself that people aren't perfect, and while the people of the church may have overlooked me since my baptism, the Lord hasn't forgotten about me, and I still have a purpose here.

[kimiko]

Kimiko:

You're not alone in this. I have a family of people who are good friends of mine. They just received their first home teachers they've had since before I was baptized.

I was baptized 8 years ago.

It's tough, Kimiko: I'll admit that. You feel like you're lost, or alone, or forgotten. You aren't.

The first year after you're baptized, things get tough. Don't give up on it. There are people who care and people who love you, even if it's difficult at times. Don't be afraid to ask for help when you face difficulties; Everybody needs a hand sometimes, even the most spiritually strong-appearing member in your ward.

I've been through it. :) I know what you're going through and you're certainly right that it gets difficult, but you don't have to do it alone.

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. You're right. It is hard not to get absorbed into feeling lost and lonely, but I cling to the Scriptures. Whenever I'm feeling discouraged, I turn to the Lord in prayer, and I'm always comforted with the knowledge that I'm in the right place.

[Tarnished]

I think there are many reasons converts leave the church but I do think a high percentage of it comes down to the fact that they no longer feel as welcome as they once did. When they are an investigator they have the missionaries, who check up on them often, they also have members who will show interest, and then after baptism, from what I have heard, it feels like all of this support drops away.

Becoming a member is a big change, not only are there changes to your life and possibly your belief structure but there is a whole different lingo that is used in the church, and you don't magically know the language once you are baptized. So you may feel lost, unsure and left on your own to figure it out. Which is why leaders have said that every new member needs a friend, and a calling. Getting busy in the church helps us learn and having someone we can be friends with helps us not only learn from a longtime member, but also gives us a support group.

And last time I heard the church has more members outside the US than they do inside the US. I think the reason so many people join is because as others have said, the truth is there. Secondly, the church is the same wherever you go, doesn't matter where in the world, it is going to be the same. The same meetings the same gospel, the same truth.

[UrbanFool]

Hummm. I think that most people that try to stop smoking give up their efforts and go back to the ways they are used to, and don't make that big change in their lives the first time they try.

About 3 weeks after I quit, I was diagnosed with fairly serious COPD. I'm likely to remain quit. It should've been diagnosed years ago, but they labeled it as anxiety attacks. I quit drinking (thank goodness --that was killing me too) and quit my coffee. Then I had to go to the thrift store and buy skirts. That was the most traumatic I think. I have a supportive husband and support all around me, so I certainly hope I maintain my new lifestyle. Now I've just got to lose some weight.

[Lilac]

Not LDS but devout Christian (Used to be Baptist but not sure what i am at the moment)

I think it's a bunch of reasons:

The grass is always greener.

People often change their opinions of things, grow, life changes etc.

Maybe they felt disappointed with something in the church; churches are not perfect but yet we ALL expect them to be. When that expectation is not met, we get frustrated and sometimes leave.

Conversions are often a very emotional thing (like falling in love when you are 17). Reality kicks in and staying in one's faith can be challenging (like 20 years later, a mortgage, four kids, jobs, bills) and it's not so "sunshine and roses". Once people hit those "bumps" their faith gets rattled a bit and they might think about leaving. For example, I was raised in a very Christian household. It was very easy to be Christian and say all the Christian things until my mom got cancer and died. Then, those "Christian answers" took on a whole new meaning and challenge. Did I really believe what i said I did all those years? Your faith gets challenged and I think some people fail, not that I'm so perfect, I've had many crisises of faith over the years. I have been blessed to somehow bounce back but there are others who sadly did not. You guys know what I mean.

I think all denominations/religions have these issues simply because we are human.

As for the LDS being an American religion, I know it was started in the US but I'm Christian and Christianity was not started here in the US but that doesn't bother me.

[crazypotato]

Not LDS but devout Christian (Used to be Baptist but not sure what i am at the moment)

I think it's a bunch of reasons:

The grass is always greener.

People often change their opinions of things, grow, life changes etc.

Maybe they felt disappointed with something in the church; churches are not perfect but yet we ALL expect them to be. When that expectation is not met, we get frustrated and sometimes leave.

Conversions are often a very emotional thing (like falling in love when you are 17). Reality kicks in and staying in one's faith can be challenging (like 20 years later, a mortgage, four kids, jobs, bills) and it's not so "sunshine and roses". Once people hit those "bumps" their faith gets rattled a bit and they might think about leaving. For example, I was raised in a very Christian household. It was very easy to be Christian and say all the Christian things until my mom got cancer and died. Then, those "Christian answers" took on a whole new meaning and challenge. Did I really believe what i said I did all those years? Your faith gets challenged and I think some people fail, not that I'm so perfect, I've had many crisises of faith over the years. I have been blessed to somehow bounce back but there are others who sadly did not. You guys know what I mean.

I think all denominations/religions have these issues simply because we are human.

As for the LDS being an American religion, I know it was started in the US but I'm Christian and Christianity was not started here in the US but that doesn't bother me.

I am sorry for the loss of your mother.

[Lilac]

Oh, thank you, that was kind.

Losing your mother is a tough one. It rattles your entire soul. My faith was pretty badly shaken but I'm still here and still faithful.

[dahlia]

For those who feel left out after baptism, did you join the Relief Society or other activities? It seems there are so many things to do that even without a home visit (personally, I think I can do without that), there are ways to be active in the Church and the activity would help you feel more connected. I could be wrong.

Thanks for the considered responses.

[kimiko]

For those who feel left out after baptism, did you join the Relief Society or other activities? It seems there are so many things to do that even without a home visit (personally, I think I can do without that), there are ways to be active in the Church and the activity would help you feel more connected. I could be wrong.

Thanks for the considered responses.

I go to Relief Society and participate in other activities. I've also volunteered, but I never get asked to serve. The problem with RS, at least in my ward, is that it has formed lots of little cliques, and none of them are really accepting new people. As a working woman, it's also hard for me to relate to a bunch of women talking about their kids, and they play "pass the new baby" during meetings. None of that really interests me. Generally the RS lessons are on the history of the church, so I go to meetings mostly for that.

[Dr T]

Good questions Dahlia. I'd say the world wide numbers are, in large part, because of missionary work. Ram had some good reasons to in his first post primarliy the first 2 reasons he gave but I don't really believe his third reason more than the first two. Sure they are sinners still so I know that is part of it.

[mormonboy51]

Yes many leave but more stay.

LDS Church Stake Growth

[crazypotato]

Oh, thank you, that was kind.

Losing your mother is a tough one. It rattles your entire soul. My faith was pretty badly shaken but I'm still here and still faithful.

I think we all have crises of faith at one time or another. It is easy to believe in God's love most of the time, but something like losing your mother is enough for anyone to question.

My friend lost her mother to cancer while I was her roommate in college. I watched her family, still 15 years later, struggle without her. They were a solid, stable family and all her kids really had serious problems with coping with life after she died - drugs, pregancy, eating disorders, a new step-mom. I have watched her and her family over the last 15 years and my heart just aches for all of them. They are all really good people and you can just see that all of their bad behavior is out of pain from their mother's death. You just touched a soft spot in my heart with your brief post.

[crazypotato]

I go to Relief Society and participate in other activities. I've also volunteered, but I never get asked to serve. The problem with RS, at least in my ward, is that it has formed lots of little cliques, and none of them are really accepting new people. As a working woman, it's also hard for me to relate to a bunch of women talking about their kids, and they play "pass the new baby" during meetings. None of that really interests me. Generally the RS lessons are on the history of the church, so I go to meetings mostly for that.

Sometimes wards can get cliquey. I am sorry that yours has cliques in it. I really doubt that every single lady in there is in a clique. I bet there are at least a few other quiet, nice people that would like to be your friend. I have noticed that most people have a hard time just going up to someone and getting to know them, because of shyness. I remember before I had kids feeling that Relief Society was only for the mothers and feeling kind of left out, too. There are a lot of women that have these same types of feelings so they dont' go to the Relief Society activities or even visiting teaching. I am sure you can find a kindred spirit in your ward with time. It is hard, but God will help you if you pray specifically for it.

[crazypotato]

For those who feel left out after baptism, did you join the Relief Society or other activities? It seems there are so many things to do that even without a home visit (personally, I think I can do without that), there are ways to be active in the Church and the activity would help you feel more connected. I could be wrong.

Thanks for the considered responses.

I am not a convert but I have moved to many new wards where I didn't know anyone or have any friends at first. It seems that if you have good visiting teachers that actually want to come and visit you, rather than to just do their duty, you can make friends faster. Or if you have a calling where you have to work with a lot of other people, that is a good way to get to know people. The activities can be fun, but if you don't really know anyone, I think it is a bit harder to get to know people at ward parties, for example, than if you have a calling.

[Truegrits]

Apparently there are "new member lessons" that are suppose to help people make the transition into LDS, but I never received those. I've been a member for a year now, and I still haven't received a visit from my home teacher. It wasn't until 7 months after I joined the church that I finally learned what visiting teaching was, and the teacher who was assigned to me never called or visited. She would just copy the message out of Ensign and send it to me in the mail.

I have had 2 VT visits in six years. I have no idea even who my VT's are. I do, however, have the most wonderful and reliable Home Teachers.

Our ward is cliquish, also. I am lucky that I have lots of family to "hang" with, and our ward is small, with lots of elderly members that do not get "called"...as a result I have never been without a Calling. I know members that slowly stop coming, then become inactive because of their callings. They feel that too much is expected of them, especially in time spent at church/callings. It can seem overwhelming, at times. I know I have felt that I would just like to go to church, enjoy the meetings, with no obligations, no calling...maybe when I get old...

[crazypotato]

I have had 2 VT visits in six years. I have no idea even who my VT's are. I do, however, have the most wonderful and reliable Home Teachers.

Our ward is cliquish, also. I am lucky that I have lots of family to "hang" with, and our ward is small, with lots of elderly members that do not get "called"...as a result I have never been without a Calling. I know members that slowly stop coming, then become inactive because of their callings. They feel that too much is expected of them, especially in time spent at church/callings. It can seem overwhelming, at times. I know I have felt that I would just like to go to church, enjoy the meetings, with no obligations, no calling...maybe when I get old...

Those small wards are really tough. They can burn out the people who have to do 3 or 4 callings at once. If there are lots of elderly people that can't physically do callings, but need lots of help, that takes time too. I am glad that you have good Home Teachers.