Glenn Beck

[clint25n]

Hello all,

Brand new member here. I am a Christian and have LDS members in my family. I know they really like Glenn Beck and was wondering what the LDS community thought of his recent show where he spent an hour talking about the gospel and theology. Radio shows have spoken a lot about it, but I would like to get an LDS outlook on it. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, the show was aired on 7/13/10 and can be seen here (8 min clip) YouTube - Glenn Beck-07/13/10-C

I understand Glenn Beck is a Mormon and has a large following. I have always liked him, even though we disagree theologically, but in this case, I gotta say I agreed and was interested in the LDS communities opinion on what Glen said. I searched the forum for reactions to this show, but didn't find anything.

Thanks for your input, and nice site btw.

Clinton

Edited August 4, 2010 by clint25n

[Wingnut]

Who's Glen Beck?

[Connie]

Hello. Welcome to the site. I watched that episode. Thanks for the reminder. I remember really enjoying what he had to say.

He is basically parroting LDS doctrine during this segment. Everything he says theologically is in line with what the LDS church teaches. I think LDS people would agree with what he says theologically during this segment. It's when he gets into politics that many begin to disagree with him. You'll find various opinions on Mr. Beck here as far as his politics and non-religious aspects, but i doubt you'll find any LDS who will disagree with what he says here theologically. It is all basic church doctrine.

Speaking of basic church doctrine, Mormon.org is a great place to go to learn more about our basic doctrines.

[UrbanFool]

I liked Glenn Beck before I was a Mormon (and he had nothing to do with me getting baptized.)

[clint25n]

He is basically parroting LDS doctrine during this segment. Everything he says theologically is in line with what the LDS church teaches.

I'm just not sure about that; I'm surprised to hear that you agree with Glenn, but if you do, then Amen!

I will show why I thought this. Here is a little comparison from what Glenn Beck in light of LDS doctrine.

Glenn said...

"You cannot earn your way into heaven. You can't! There is no deed, no random act of kindness, no amount of money to spread around to others that earns you a trip to heaven. It can't happen. It's earned by God's grace alone, by believing that Jesus died on the cross for you. This is what Christians believe."

But from what I know in the LDS faith, the opposite is said with claims like...

"...earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God"

"...who have earned a right to a place in the celestial kingdom"

"...exaltation to be earned by repentance, by living righteously, keeping the commandments of the Lord, and service to one’s fellowmen"

Now if I'm wrong here, then that's great, because I also believe that "you cannot earn heaven", and that "we are saved by grace alone, and not of our works, but by believing that Jesus died on the cross".

I just thought the LDS faith was different and opposed such claims, so I was interested in what they thought of that Glenn Beck show on 7/13/10.

[Wingnut]

"For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

2 Nephi 25:23

[bytor2112]

Now, there is a true doctrine of salvation by grace--a salvation by grace alone and without works, as the scriptures say. To understand this doctrine we must define our terms as they are defined in holy writ.

1. What is salvation? It is both immortality and eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It consists of the fullness of the glory of the Father and is reserved for those for whom the family unity continues in eternity. Those who are saved become as God is and live as he lives.

2. What is the plan of salvation? It is the system ordained by the Father to enable his spirit children to advance and progress and become like him. It consists of three great and eternal verities--the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement--without any of which there could be no salvation.

3. What is the grace of God? It is his mercy, his love, and his condescension--all manifest for the benefit and blessing of his children, all operating to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

We rejoice in the heavenly condescension that enabled Mary to become “the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Nephi 11:18).

We bask in the eternal love that sent the Only Begotten into the world “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

We are profoundly grateful for that mercy which endureth forever and through which salvation is offered to erring mortals.

4. Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works? It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees.

We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?

In his goodness and grace the great God ordained and established the plan of salvation. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he created this earth and all that is on it, with man as the crowning creature of his creating--without which creation his spirit children could not obtain immortality and eternal life. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he provided for the Fall of man, thus bringing mortality and death and a probationary estate into being--without all of which there would be no immortality and eternal life. And again no works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace--and this above all--he gave his Only Begotten Son to ransom man and all life from the temporal and spiritual death brought into the world by the Fall of Adam.

He sent his Son to redeem mankind, to atone for the sins of the world, “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). And again all this comes to us as a free gift and without works.

There is nothing any man could do to create himself. This was the work of the Lord God.

Nor did we have any part in the Fall of man, without which there could be no salvation. The Lord provided the way, and Adam and Eve put the system into operation.

And finally, there neither has been, nor is, nor ever can be any way nor means by which man alone can, or any power he possesses, redeem himself.

We cannot resurrect ourselves anymore than we can create ourselves. We cannot create a heavenly abode for the Saints, nor make provision for the continuation of the family unit in eternity, nor bring salvation and exaltation into being. All these things are ordained and established by that God who is the Father of us all. And they all came into being and are made available to us, as free gifts, without works, because of the infinite goodness and grace of Him whose children we are.

Truly, there is no way to overstate the goodness and grandeurs and glories of the grace of God which bringeth salvation. Such wondrous love, such unending mercy, such infinite compassion and condescension--all these can come only from the Eternal God who lives in eternal life and who desires all of his children to live as he lives and be inheritors of eternal life. -Elder Bruce R McConkie

[Guest The_Doctor]

I'm just not sure about that; I'm surprised to hear that you agree with Glenn, but if you do, then Amen!

I will show why I thought this. Here is a little comparison from what Glenn Beck in light of LDS doctrine.

Glenn said...

"You cannot earn your way into heaven. You can't! There is no deed, no random act of kindness, no amount of money to spread around to others that earns you a trip to heaven. It can't happen. It's earned by God's grace alone, by believing that Jesus died on the cross for you. This is what Christians believe."

But from what I know in the LDS faith, the opposite is said with claims like...

"...earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God"

"...who have earned a right to a place in the celestial kingdom"

"...exaltation to be earned by repentance, by living righteously, keeping the commandments of the Lord, and service to one’s fellowmen"

Now if I'm wrong here, then that's great, because I also believe that "you cannot earn heaven", and that "we are saved by grace alone, and not of our works, but by believing that Jesus died on the cross".

I just thought the LDS faith was different and opposed such claims, so I was interested in what they thought of that Glenn Beck show on 7/13/10.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:15

He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.

Proverbs 4:4

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:17-18

I would argue one of the things that Jesus taught us was that we should try to follow Heavenly Father's commandments as best as we can, because that's how God defines clean and unclean. But unfortunately we're not perfect and therefore unable to always keep the commandments. That's why Jesus sacrificed himself, so when we do slip up we can be forgiven.

Edit: You go to type a response and two new posts pop up.

Edited August 5, 2010 by The_Doctor
New Posts

[clint25n]

Ok, so it looks like some say grace alone is sufficient, and good works don't earn you heaven (merely come out of your Christianity), and some people seem to say that works are required to earn heaven.

So I would assume some agree with Glenn Beck here and some don't. I wonder if I can find a poll on this subject buried in the forum archives.

[Moksha]

So I would assume some agree with Glenn Beck here and some don't. I wonder if I can find a poll on this subject buried in the forum archives.

I think the poll would vary week to week depending on the latest outrageous claim by Glenn Beck and the memory span of posters.

[FunkyTown]

Ok, so it looks like some say grace alone is sufficient, and good works don't earn you heaven (merely come out of your Christianity), and some people seem to say that works are required to earn heaven.

So I would assume some agree with Glenn Beck here and some don't. I wonder if I can find a poll on this subject buried in the forum archives.

It's not a question of 'earning' your way in to heaven.

No good works we do go on a scale. Any good works we do is akin to a Father giving a child $20 to buy him a birthday present. Whatever the child buys, the Father will be happy with, but it would be impossible to think that the Father is $20 to the good on that transaction, even if all $20 is given to the present.

Works are, however, an important part of being a follower of Christ. Baptism is a work, but you can hardly brag that Baptism is you doing something wonderful. Baptism only works because of the sacrifice of the son of God.

In the same vein, a man who runs out and says he believes, then cheats on his wife and murders his brother in a drunken dispute probably isn't a great believer. Faith without works is mere belief and, as the scriptures say, even the Devils believe. And tremble.

[Connie]

Hello again. I hope you have enjoyed your time here so far.

I'm just not sure about that; I'm surprised to hear that you agree with Glenn, but if you do, then Amen!

I do agree with him. We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesian 2:8). And "faith, if it hath not works, is dead." (James 2:17) So if our faith is dead without works and we are saved by grace through faith, then works are a pretty important part of being saved by grace; wouldn't you say? Seems logical.

Glenn said...

"You cannot earn your way into heaven. You can't! There is no deed, no random act of kindness, no amount of money to spread around to others that earns you a trip to heaven. It can't happen. It's earned by God's grace alone, by believing that Jesus died on the cross for you. This is what Christians believe."

Is this the only part of what Glenn said you agree with? How do you feel about the rest of what he said? Because he also talked about people "working the system" by saying they accept the atonement and not really meaning it because they didn't do anything about it. He said, "Did you really accept that gift? Did you really unload all the stuff you had done in your life and give it to Him? That's how it works." He's talking about repentance (a work, i might add). He's talking about having an individual relationship with God, a "change of heart." He says, "You really have to have a change of heart. That's where the deeds come in" and "our work is a demonstration of our faith" and "to receive His salvation you accept His forgiveness of sins and live your life according to His will" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you, that's what that means." He's putting faith and works together, which is how it should be. "That's biblical," is what he says. Do you agree with that?

But from what I know in the LDS faith, the opposite is said with claims like...

"...earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God"

"...who have earned a right to a place in the celestial kingdom"

"...exaltation to be earned by repentance, by living righteously, keeping the commandments of the Lord, and service to one’s fellowmen"

I would like to see your sources for these claims. Again, Glenn said, "to receive His salvation you accept His forgiveness of sins and live your life according to His will." Faith and works go hand in hand. This is what Mormons believe.

Now if I'm wrong here, then that's great, because I also believe that "you cannot earn heaven", and that "we are saved by grace alone, and not of our works, but by believing that Jesus died on the cross".

I just thought the LDS faith was different and opposed such claims, so I was interested in what they thought of that Glenn Beck show on 7/13/10.

We are saved by grace. Mormons believe this. But how are we saved by grace? Through faith according to Ephesians 2:8. And according to James, our faith is dead without works. Faith and works go hand in hand. This is what the Bible teaches. This is what Mormons believe.

I think C.S. Lewis said it very well. He said, "Christians have often disputed as to whether what leads the Christian home is good actions, or Faith in Christ. ... it does seem to me like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most necessary. ... There are two parodies of the truth which different sets of Christians have, in the past, been accused by other Christians of believing: perhaps they may make the truth clearer. One set were accused of saying, 'Good actions are all that matters. The best good action is charity. The best kind of charity is giving money. The best thing to give money to is the Church. So hand us over $10,000 and we will see you through.' The answer to that nonsense, of course, would be that good actions done for that motive, done with the idea that Heaven can be bought, would not be good actions at all, but only commercial speculations. The other set were accused of saying, 'Faith is all that matters. Consequently, if you have faith, it doesn't matter what you do. Sin away, my lad, and have a good time and Christ will see that it makes no difference in the end.' The answer to that nonsense is that, if what you call your 'faith' in Christ does not involve taking the slightest notice of what He says, then it is not Faith at all--not faith or trust in Him, but only intellectual acceptance of some theory about Him. ... In the attempt to express it different Churches say different things. But you will find that even those who insist most strongly on the importance of good actions tell you you need Faith; and even those who insist most strongly on Faith tell you to do good actions." (from Mere Christianity)

[Traveler]

I'm just not sure about that; I'm surprised to hear that you agree with Glenn, but if you do, then Amen!

I will show why I thought this. Here is a little comparison from what Glenn Beck in light of LDS doctrine.

Glenn said...

"You cannot earn your way into heaven. You can't! There is no deed, no random act of kindness, no amount of money to spread around to others that earns you a trip to heaven. It can't happen. It's earned by God's grace alone, by believing that Jesus died on the cross for you. This is what Christians believe."

But from what I know in the LDS faith, the opposite is said with claims like...

"...earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God"

"...who have earned a right to a place in the celestial kingdom"

"...exaltation to be earned by repentance, by living righteously, keeping the commandments of the Lord, and service to one’s fellowmen"

Now if I'm wrong here, then that's great, because I also believe that "you cannot earn heaven", and that "we are saved by grace alone, and not of our works, but by believing that Jesus died on the cross".

I just thought the LDS faith was different and opposed such claims, so I was interested in what they thought of that Glenn Beck show on 7/13/10.

A lot of people get caught up in semantics. The problem is in this statement: “we are saved by grace alone, and not of our works, but by believing that Jesus died on the cross".

As soon as the word “but” is added we add a caveat that heaven is earned by believing then technically we are no longer saved by grace alone.

In LDS theology everybody is saved in heaven. At the end of things death and hell will give up the souls that are there and everybody will be saved in heaven. However, there are “treasures” in heaven that are laid up through covenants with G-d. These treasures must be earned and are only given to the worthy. Therefore, some get caught up in semantics and think a “place” in heaven is obtained by works. The truth is that salvation (redemption of sin or death - for all are resurrected to the glory of heaven) is for all mankind and like the light of the sun benefits all.

The Traveler

[clint25n]

I do agree with him. We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesian 2:8). And "faith, if it hath not works, is dead." (James 2:17) So if our faith is dead without works and we are saved by grace through faith, then works are a pretty important part of being saved by grace; wouldn't you say? Seems logical.

Yes, I do agree. Works are important because they demonstrate that we are a Christian (but not to become a Christian or to earn heaven, because you can't as Glenn said). Example: 1 of 2 things can happen.

1- Someone can be born again, have a new nature, and out of that new creature comes good works. This is a Christian doing good works because its in his new nature to do so. Works coming from faith.

2- Some people try to do good works in order to get saved, or make it to heaven. That is like someone saying the word "moooo" in order to become a cow. The reason the real cow moos is because it's in his nature to do moo. Similarly, a Christians does works because it is in his nature to do so.

Therefore, works don't earn us salvation, they are the result of our salvation.

How do you feel about the rest of what he said? Because he also talked about people "working the system" by saying they accept the atonement and not really meaning it

Completely agree with you here... so many hypocritical Christians who are not saved at all. They believe in Jesus, but they were never born again.

I would like to see your sources for these claims.

Just look up phrases like "then grace is sufficient for you" or "only after all you can do".

I think its pretty well known that you have to do in order to receive in the LDS faith.

Whereas the idea I mentioned earlier was that you receive 100% first, then you do because you are a new creature in Christ.

Here is a prime example I suppose from the words of Joseph Smith himself.

“All that we can do for ourselves we are required to do. We must do our own repenting; we are required to obey every commandment and live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If we will do this, then we are freed from the consequences of our own sins. The plan of salvation is based on this foundation. No man can be saved without complying with these laws" (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p.172).

When Glenn Beck says one thing "there is nothing you can do to be saved", it made me want to ask Mormons what they think when their founding prophet said you must "obey every commandment" to be saved.

But I really didn't come to debate.. I was seriously under the impression that most LDS believed you must do in order to receive. But if you believe there is nothing you can do to earn heaven, it's by grace alone... then I have my answer, and am pleased with your reply!

I hope to learn more about your faith in my time here.

[Dravin]

In my experience Saved by Grace Alone proponents tend to present things as a dichotomy, faith or works. LDS simply don't see it that way, it's like trying to describe water as hydrogen or oxygen.