Halal-only menu for London primary schools

[UrbanFool]

I feel like the only one freaked out by things like this and the Mosque at Ground Zero, etc. I don't know what people are thinking. Despite every protest and anger, these things are just done, seemingly without anyone's approval.

Halal-only menu for London primary schools sparks row | News | The Christian Institute

School meals go halal in London | The Australian

I've included two links, because I'm not sure which of the foreign sources is a viable source for information.

[Wingnut]

I feel like the only one freaked out by things like this and the Mosque at Ground Zero, etc. I don't know what people are thinking. Despite every protest and anger, these things are just done, seemingly without anyone's approval.

To be blunt, if you find yourself the only one "freaked out", perhaps you need to ask yourself why you are upset. I don't see a problem with the move at all. I see a problem with the fact that parents were not consulted, but it's still meat. Substitute the word "kosher" for "halal" and do you still have a problem with it?

Muslims didn't fly into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. Muslim extremists did. There's a huge difference there.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Wingnut

[HEthePrimate]

Well, apparently you're not the only person freaking out about this. The very title of the article you linked to, "Halal-only menu for London primary schools sparks row" makes that obvious. People are upset.

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. They're still being given meat, just meat that was slaughtered differently, and who really cares about that, as long as it's humane. And from what I understand, both kosher and halal use methods that are humane.

Of course, Muslim law prohibits eating pork, so if the schoolchildren want pork they may have to wait a few hours for dinner at home.

But I do agree that parents should have been consulted instead of officials simply making the decision on their own.

HEP

[UrbanFool]

I think it's kind of outrageous that a community that is 7% Muslim can dictate what the other 93% eat when we can barely provide healthy lunches for the 100% of each community that require healthy lunches.

I won't buy a hotdog that isn't Kosher, but that's my own decision. I also go out of my way and spend extra money on organic grass-fed beef. I think that would be 100% healthier for everyone else, but I don't presume to dictate what others eat. Well, except for my husband.

Edited August 7, 2010 by UrbanFool
Making the numbers jive.

[Soulsearcher]

I think it's kind of outrageous that a community that is 7% Muslim can dictate what the other 96% eat when we can barely provide healthy lunches for the 100% of each community that require healthy lunches.

I won't buy a hotdog that isn't Kosher, but that's my own decision. I also go out of my way and spend extra money on organic grass-fed beef. I think that would be 100% healthier for everyone else, but I don't presume to dictate what others eat. Well, except for my husband.

7%+96%=103% which alone confuses me.

[UrbanFool]

Sorry, my brain doesn't calculate very well sometimes. These meds are frustrating sometimes.

[Dravin]

Seems a savvy enough move, my understanding is that Kosher food is considered Halal, does the reverse apply? If so they create a menu that Jews, Christians and Muslims alike can eat along with a variety of other religions. I suppose the Hindi kid still needs to stay away from the hamburger though.

I imagine it's simply easier, much like how a peanut free kitchen is easier than worrying about cross contamination. Yes I'm aware it's not perfectly analogous, peanuts is a health issue, but I'm just talking about how one menu is easier to manage than multiple ones.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Dravin

[Suzie]

So they are offended because the word is "Halal" and is related to Muslims but if it was "Kosher" they would have been fine? It shows ignorance in their part. The way the animal is killed is far more compassionate than when it is NOT halal. The animal is usually given water AND killed swiftly without scaring him or other animals.

For those who complain about this move, should go to Youtube and butchering videos here in the US and then tell me what is exactly the problem here.

I have lived in many countries, some with a huge Muslim population and halal meat was the only choice. I am not sure what exactly the parents are complaining, the animal was KILLED differently.

[UrbanFool]

Oddly, I like making my own decisions rather then having them made for me. I like the freedom of making my own trek to the Thai market to pick out food oddities, and I like the freedom of choosing the beef that is slaughtered in a way I think is humane.

Frankly, forcing cattle to eat corn so they're fattened up in less than a year instead of a few years, and killing them before their digestive system shuts down entirely is pretty inhumane.

Of course, I took my lunch to school so it wouldn't have mattered anyway. It's someone else's freedoms right? And doesn't affect mine at all. This time.

[Dravin]

I imagine most of the unsettled folks are thinking more along the lines of "How dare those schools cater to [group that isn't me] and change our society!" rather than, "I disapprove of Muslim butchering techniques." So the humanity of any particular butchering method is moot.

Now if you simply want to be a curmudgeon and complain that schools are pansies and shouldn't be catering to anyone, in fact they should be cleaning the cookware with peanuts and somehow getting sugar into every dish to cull out the diabetic kids I could almost get behind that. But then I'm a ornery cuss.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Dravin

[Suzie]

Frankly, forcing cattle to eat corn so they're fattened up in less than a year instead of a few years, and killing them before their digestive system shuts down entirely is pretty inhumane.

The halal method IS regarded to be humane. And this NON-halal method seems human to you?

YouTube - ‪Meet your Meat‬‎

I ask those parents, do they rather their kids eat animals who were slaughtered in this way?

I don't think so.

The ONLY issue here is the fact that Muslims use this method. That's enough to scare the ignorant.

[UrbanFool]

I never said I had a problem with the way their cattle were slaughtered or raised or anything. My concern is the 7% of yes --Muslims, are being pushed on every other child who takes lunch at school. I think that "humane" beef should go all the way to the top, but everyone should have their own right to pay 99 cents for floor-sweepings hotdogs (that are connected with brain tumors), or cough up the money for Kosher (or Halal) meats because they think it's the right thing morally (for them) and healthfully.

It's funny to laugh at the city of Santa Clara who has banned happy meal toys so kids won't want fast food (!?), but wait until it comes to your neighborhood, and it's in a form you don't agree with.

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW, the link to the Australian news source in the OP asserted that halal slaughters are not humane.

I think the issue isn't the meat; it's the way the authorities are bending over backwards in a way they don't seem willing to do for other religions. Will London next start serving herbal tea to all its students to accommodate the sensibilities of Mormon children? Britain has had a substantial Jewish population for centuries, and (apparently) no one ever thought to put all British children on a Kosher diet (and frankly, if they tried it, I think it's an open question how many London schools would be standing at the end of the year).

It's not that mainstream Muslims are necessarily doing anything untoward; it's just that it's becoming clear that being a member of a religion with a widely feared lunatic fringe that is willing to kill people the world over, has its perks. And that bothers a lot of non-Muslims.

[Moksha]

7%+96%=103% which alone confuses me.

They are on their way to giving 110% effort.

[prisonchaplain]

Muslims got such a bad rap post-9/11 that authorities do go the extra mile to accommodate their sensibilities. It would be nice if they'd grant Christians the same courtesies, but the stigma of the Crusades have worn off enough that we don't get such "protections." Fortunately halal certification is much simpler than kosher, and so, surely less expensive. No pork, no alcohol, and blessed/prepared by a person of the book (includes Christians). Ironically, I had a Muslim cleric tell me he considers all USDA beef to be halal, since it's reasonable to assume that the slaughter was done by Christians.

[Dravin]

Okay, so it sounds like the Kosher -> Halal doesn't cut both ways. Sounds like for maximum compatibility amongst Abrahamic Religions we should all go Kosher. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Dravin, full kosher meals in the prison system can cost much more than regular ones. My guess is that a halal accommodation might run an extra few % points. Then again, if an American city did what London is, one of our federal judges might indeed declare the goodwill accommodation a mandatory one...perhaps even for the whole state--or country.

Edited August 8, 2010 by prisonchaplain

[Wingnut]

I was the one who made the initial comparison between kosher and halal. I wasn't meaning to treat them as equals, but rather merely to point out that if the school district went completely kosher, that no one would be complaining.

[Moksha]

Dravin, full kosher meals in the prison system can cost much more than regular ones. My guess is that a halal accommodation might run an extra few % points.

The difference might be the relative pay scales of Imams and Rabbis per blessing, with Halal coming in with the lowest blessing bid.