Bishop being killed has me so upset

[Traveler]

Angel: I look at it this way…

The Lord has given us agency so that we can learn what we need to learn here in life, so that we can become more like God. Those who abuse their agency will need to be held accountable for their actions. While I’m certain God knew what was going to happen to this bishop, by whom, and why, he cannot interfere with the agency of another person.

.....

Because the Lord did NOT interfere, the shooter will be held fully accountable for his actions at the time of judgment. He could not be held accountable to the same degree had someone interfered.

I am not sure that the "shooter" was mentally stable enough to exercise agency. One of the great blessings of the atonement of Christ is that it is not necessary to find someone to blame for everything bad that happens to us.

The Traveler

[Uncle_Sam]

Here is my problem with all of this. Miracles happen everyday.I have seen so many of them in my lifetime.Why did an angel or something happen to save this Bishop. Was this his time to go?My husband says everyone has an appointed time of death.Was this his? We can pray all we want but it will be Gods will no matter what we pray for. I believe there are no coincedents(probably mispelled that) everything that happens is for a reason.I just hope we hear some good that came out of this horrible tragedy.

I'm sure this was his time to go, and there definitely was a reason for this. But I doubt we will hear of anything good that came out of this. God works in mysterious ways. I'm sure that it is and will be a huge trial for the man's family. At first the effects for the family are terrible, but as time goes on and they begin to heal they will probably have a greater understanding of death, returning to our Father in Heaven, and eternal life. Now I don't know what God had planned for this man's family, but I definitely think those are some of the things that this is meant to help them grow somehow......

[PrinceofLight2000]

Prince of Light, is this belief based on scripture or personal inspiration? Please understand that I am not making a personal attack just curious what this personal belief is based on.

Ben Raines

Personal inspiration. Despite that, however, if you'd like a bit more substantive basis taken from doctrine, isn't it true that fathers have the power to receive revelation for their families?

[PrinceofLight2000]

Well, I think it can be established from the scriptures that people can have an appointment to die.

For example, the scriptures teach us that a priesthood blessing will heal a person if he has faith, but only if he is not appointed to die at that time.

And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed. (D&C 42:48)

Regards,

Vanhin

Ultimately, yes. This holds true with natural deaths, disease, and accidental deaths, I think.

But when it comes to something like murder or suicide, where someone is actively taking a life, the question being posed here is: was the deceased appointed unto death at that time? That's why I compare it to the lost book of Lehi. The manuscripts certainly weren't appointed or supposed to be lost, but we have their account in the book of Nephi.

Edited September 2, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[NeuroTypical]

One of the great blessings of the atonement of Christ is that it is not necessary to find someone to blame for everything bad that happens to us.

Another great blessing, is that if you are to blame for something bad happening to someone, there's still hope. Even if you're unable to fix all the harm you've caused.

Mercy, justice, complete healing. All going hand in hand. I wish I could wrap my mind around it. But even though I can't - I'm all for it.

LM

[carlimac]

I wouldn't say "intended", because I don't think Heavenly Father intends for anyone to die early. But I'm sure they did everything that they needed to do during their time, one way or another via His greatness.

So if I procrastinate and drag my feet on all the good things I'm supposed to do, I'll live longer?

[Wingnut]

So if I procrastinate and drag my feet on all the good things I'm supposed to do, I'll live longer?

Only the good die young.

[jayanna]

D & C 121: 25 For there is a time appointed for every man, according as his works shall be.

My father died when I was young, I have never really spent a lot of time wondering what could have been. I have spent a lot of time thinking that I would be a completely different person had I not faced the challenges that I have faced.

I know that he is waiting to see me again, and that all this will seem as the blink of an eye.

The miracle came before and after, and possibly during the death.

Have eyes that see, and you will know this too.

If someone asks me who the "guy in charge," is, I think I'll just try to point at a picture of Jesus.

[carlimac]

Only the good die young.

Oh ya! Forgot about that one.

[jayanna]

D & C 124

49 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.

50 And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God

Edited September 3, 2010 by jayanna

[carlimac]

D & C 121: 25 For there is a time appointed for every man, according as his works shall be.

My father died when I was young, I have never really spent a lot of time wondering what could have been. I have spent a lot of time thinking that I would be a completely different person had I not faced the challenges that I have faced.

I know that he is waiting to see me again, and that all this will seem as the blink of an eye.

The miracle came before and after, and possibly during the death.

Have eyes that see, and you will know this too.

If someone asks me who the "guy in charge," is, I think I'll just try to point at a picture of Jesus.

I'm not trying to make light of this. My father-in-law died at 59 when his adoring and impressionable grandson (my son) was only 7. The hurt caused by this unneccessary and untimely death was deep and just...well, we still can't figure out what was so important for him to do on the other side when he could have been such a great teacher, mentor and supporter to all his grandsons. My mother-in-law has been a bit nuts ever since. My husband has longed for conversation and guidance from his dad. I honestly can't see any good that has come from his early death. There were no miracles, not even any silver linings that I could see. (There were many when my parents died but they were much older.) I've looked for them but haven't found a single one. I hope we find out the whole story in the next life.

Edited September 3, 2010 by carlimac

[PrinceofLight2000]

So if I procrastinate and drag my feet on all the good things I'm supposed to do, I'll live longer?

No, because that's your prerogative. What I'm saying is that the people who go earlier than they're supposed to (murder, suicide) are inspired to do what they originally needed to do earlier in life so that the untimely death has no effect on those the deceased might have stewardship over.

Edited September 3, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[jayanna]

I've looked for them but haven't found a single one. I hope we find out the whole story in the next life.

I'm sorry about that, and I think we will all get to see a more detailed picture later on, and it will be easier to understand. It took me years and years to finally see how things have been for developing my faith and reliance on the Lord.

I guess sometimes that enduring to the end means enduring not being able to understand why things have to be the way they are.

[carlimac]

No, because that's your prerogative. What I'm saying is that the people who go earlier than they're supposed to (murder, suicide) are inspired to do what they originally needed to do earlier in life so that the untimely death has no effect on those the deceased might have stewardship over.

I just can't see how this is possible but I won't argue it with you.

[yorkiebeebs]

Sometimes when I read posts it seems like we are trying to take away the sovereignty of God. He is God and he is the one who is in control we are not. It's interesting to read what everyone says because there are so many different points of view.

God has given free agency but He is still God and is in control of all..period. Nothing is out of his control, imho. Sometimes it sounds like we are putting ourselves in the drivers seat and putting God in the backseat.

I was probably raised with a completely different view of God. All of my life I never saw God as Heavenly Father but an all powerful, mighty judge sitting on a throne. When you're raised with that image it affects how you view things I think.

One of the most comforting teachings of the LDS Church for me is that God is a loving Heavenly Father.

Back to my original thought. I believe that God chooses when we are born and he chooses when we leave this world. I believe that our free agency contributes to how we leave this world but I believe that we still leave when God says we leave.

When my mother died in a car accident her best friend was in the car with her and she got a broken leg. Two years later she died of brain cancer. God is in control, He decides.

I believe that we can all have our own differing opinions because there are so many things that we will never know for sure until we leave this world. I sure have alot of questions to ask when I get there.

[gabelpa]

No effect, such as grief, depression, doubt, inactivity or worse?

[PrinceofLight2000]

No effect, such as grief, depression, doubt, inactivity or worse?

No. Again, that would be the other person's prerogative. What I'm trying to get across is that regardless of whether it was that person's "appointed" time to go or not (I don't believe that's the case with murder or suicide because they involve agency), Heavenly Father makes sure the eternally important things (eg teaching one's family) they need to take care of in life are taken care of.

Basically, I meant "no effect" as in they didn't lose out on something their parents were supposed to teach them, because Heavenly Father had inspired the parents to teach things earlier even if said things didn't apply at all during the time they were taught. I feel that's what happened with my father. Does that make more sense?

Of course, we're assuming the parents in question kept themselves in tune with the Spirit so that they could respond to promptings and teach effectively.

Edited September 3, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[dash77]

My heart and prayers really goes out to the wife and family of this Bishop.

Two quick thought related to this. First, although there are ministering angels and God really knows us and can protect us, I think many members do not fully understand the concept of agency. Agency really means that God will let others make choices – including extremely serious and sad ones. I am not sure if this was the Bishops appointed time or not – I think God allowed another person (who may have been mentally ill) to have agency. But I do know that in the eternal scheme, this family will be reunited (assuming they live baptismal covenants) and in the eternities this life experience will be short. But with that said, the poor wife and children are grieving and this is a really tragic event.

Second, although I know we are blessed in life for the service we render, I think too many members pick their blessings and it really is up to Heavenly Father. When we pick future blessing and not let God pick them – we create a gap and sometimes people will question God rather than realize their thinking was off base. Serving in the sacred calling as Bishop does not guarantee safety and I do not know why some people are blessed to live longer and some are not. But I do know that Joseph Smith once stated that when it comes to understanding the mysteries of God, we are like babes on our mothers lap.

My prayers go out to the family.