14 fundamentals in following the prophet

[threepercent]

YouTube - LDS Freedom Project II-Follow the Prophet

[rubondfan2]

Thanks threepercent for posting that recording of (then) Elder Ezra Taft Benson's "14 fundamentals" talk. I had to google it myself earlier to read it over again.

I find it very interesting that TWO separate General Authorities not only made mention of Elder Benson's remarks, but quoted all of the 14 fundamentals. Could it be that this was a wake up call to we as members of the church to return to the "fundamentals" concerning our living prophets?

Without calling out any particular posters here on the forum specifically, it has been my observation, as a relative "outsider" to the forum (I've only been a member for a couple of months) that many threads, and comments within those threads, debate and even at times discount the words of the prophets, both living and dead. This is, in my opinion, walking dangerously close to that raging river spoken of in 1 Nephi chapter 8.

I have also observed, again, as a newbie to the forum, the diverging off into deep and complex ideas and concepts about spirituality, the Gospel and the way we are to live within the world and our lives. The theme was clear in today's session... hold fast to the foundational elements of truth... the living prophets... the fundamentals of the Gospel. Return to the basics, for these are indeed "turbulent" times in which we live.

Our marching orders for the next 6 months are being given... are we listening? And more importantly... are we going to follow them?

[Connie]

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet

[semodex]

I thought it was interesting too that Doctrine and Covenants 1:38 was quoted or referred to at least 3 times. (Kevin R Duncan, Dallin H Oaks, Henry B Eyring)

What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

[mikbone]

I just wanted to add the written speech for convience, and the list of the 14 fundamentals...

I particularly like 6 & 11.

Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet - Ezra Taft Benson

First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.

Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.

Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men's reasoning.

Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.

Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency--the highest quorum in the Church.

Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.

Edited October 4, 2010 by mikbone

[bl8tant]

Thanks threepercent for posting that recording of (then) Elder Ezra Taft Benson's "14 fundamentals" talk. I had to google it myself earlier to read it over again.

I find it very interesting that TWO separate General Authorities not only made mention of Elder Benson's remarks, but quoted all of the 14 fundamentals. Could it be that this was a wake up call to we as members of the church to return to the "fundamentals" concerning our living prophets?

Without descending into Kremlinology, I also note that the relative emphasis given to each of the 14 points by the two brethren who mentioned them is probably worth some pondering and study.

[Just_A_Guy]

I dunno. With Elder Costa, I got the feeling that he got the "two minute" warning halfway through his talk, and cut out a lot of material.

[bl8tant]

Interesting. I was listening to him on my phone, so I didn't see any facial expressions or anything. He did seem to speed up a bit, though.

I wonder how often / how much speakers for general conference rehearse? Some speakers seem to be very uncomfortable (like poor Elder Arnold Sunday afternoon), while others, like dear President Hinckley or President Uchtdorf, are able to ad-lib seemingly at will.

[NeuroTypical]

Perhaps I'm the only one out there, but I get uncomfortable when I hear the "14 fundamentals" talk. It just seems so "obey at all costs"-ish. I suppose I'm happy with it, as long as it's taken with a dose of these words as well:

I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p. 150

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Latter-day Saints are not obedient because they are compelled to be obedient. They are obedient because they know certain spiritual truths and have decided, as an expression of their own individual agency, to obey the commandments of God. We are the sons and daughters of God, willing followers, disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, and "under this head are [we] made free." (Mosiah 5: 8 )

Those who talk of blind obedience may appear to know many things, but they do not understand the doctrines of the gospel. There is an obedience that comes from a knowledge of the truth that transcends any external form of control. We are not obedient because we are blind, we are obedient because we can see.

Boyd K. Packer, "Agency and Control," Ensign, May 1983, 66

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Concerning the question of blind obedience. Not a man in this Church, since the Prophet Joseph Smith down to the present day, has ever asked any man to do as he was told blindly. No Prophet of God, no Apostle, no President of a Stake, no Bishop, who has had the spirit of his office and calling resting upon him, has ever asked a soul to do anything that they might not know was right and the proper thing to do. We do not ask you to do anything that you may not know it is your duty to do, or that you may not know will be a blessing for you to do.

If we give you counsel, we do not ask you to obey that counsel without you know[ing] that it is right to do so. But how shall we know that it is right? By getting the Spirit of God in our hearts, by which our minds may be opened and enlightened, that we may know the doctrine for ourselves, and be able to divide truth from error, light from darkness and good from evil

Josehp F. Smith, Collected Discourses, ed. Brian H. Stuy, Vol. 3 (Burbank, B.H.S. Publishing, 1987-1992)

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It is a mistaken idea, prevalent in the world, that the perpetuity of this work depends upon the authorities keeping the masses of the people in ignorance. The truth is the direct reverse, else why have we all these auxiliary organizations and quorums of priesthood in the church, for the education of the rising generation. Their being established in the faith depends upon their knowledge of the Gospel. Our greatest fear concerning our children in Zion is the possibility of their growing up in ignorance of the everlasting Gospel...As a matter of intelligent obedience--not blind obedience--we should observe to keep the word of wisdom. For the same reason we should observe to keep holy the Sabbath day, and the name of our Father in Heaven, and His Son Jesus Christ, and intelligently yield obedience to every requirement that is made at our hands

George F. Richards, Conference Report, April 1907, Afternoon Session, 15-17

[AR_Member]

From the mouth of two or three witnesses... I think that combined with these fundamentals and the very direct statements from Pres Packer, Elder Christopherson, and Pres Uchtdorf on what is and is not divine law, this should (but sadly won't) silence those who feel that they live in special cirumstances that preclude them from obedience.

I also noticed increased emphasis on agency and the right/responsibility we have to choose. So What does this tell me? There is a law irrevocably decreed in the heavens that cannot be voted out of existence just because we don't agree with them. Prophets have boldly proclaimed them to be the ONLY way we can draw nearer to God. We are to act and not be acted upon by choosing to follow what the prophets teach.

[AR_Member]

Too loudmouth_mormon, Elder Oaks elequently explained how the source of our testimony has to be equal parts us and our leaders.

[bytor2112]

I used the video for FHE tonight. Very nice....the whole family enjoyed and felt the Spirit. President Benson was awesome.....

[Just_A_Guy]

The talk created a bit of a stir when it came out, too; but I think Camilla Kimball was dead-on when she said that the talk would have been wholly unremarkable if it had been given by anybody but President Benson.

[captmoroniRM]

I definitely think the message of these 14 fundamentals are essential for the times which are to come. Meridian Magazine carried an article where Elder Packer and one other member of the twelve, touched on one message that was something unplanned. They said things are going to get rough for the Saints, that the easy times were over.

One of the things that shocked me in 2008 was hearing some members of the church call Pres. Monson a bigot by asking members to support CA Prop 8 or AZ Prop 102. As the world drifts further into iniquity, the wheat will be sifted from the tares, and such incidents will only increase. Following the prophet now-adays is one of the sure-fire ways to ensure that we will be on the Lord's side.

[Faded]

YouTube - LDS Freedom Project II-Follow the Prophet

Thanks for posting the original address by President Benson.

My wife and I had made a daily goal to take a Conference address, listen to it and make commentary about it on our private blog page. The whole point is to be actively following and listening to living prophets.

The original inspiration for this: Somebody speaking in Church shared an experience they had in a discussion with a non-member. I don't remember the specifics of course, but the thing that I will always remember is this: The member told the non-member that we have a living prophet today. The non-member was skeptical, but thought this would be a wonderful thing if it were true. They asked the member, "What has he said recently." She was forced to admit at that critical moment, "I don't know." The non-member was shocked by this. "You mean you have a living prophet and you don't even know what he's saying??"

This made me reflect on my own negligence. I asked myself the same question, "What has our living prophet had to say most recently?" I was disappointed to realize that I too did not know. Rather than beating myself up over it, I asked myself, "How can I fix it? What can I do to ensure that I never find myself in that same circumstance saying, 'I don't know what the prophet has said recently.' "

As with any good idea, the blog started out with both me and my wife being consistent, but gradually falling off and getting less consistent. The address by Elder Costa was a good one for remotivating myself, but the original by President Benson was even better -- and taking both was the perfect way to get myself back on track.