sunday school and YW lessons a bit simple?

[lizzy12]

My YM/YW is very small so we combine all the 14-18 yr olds for sunday school and during yw we have ages 12-18.

I feel like I'm not benifiting from the time spent in class. I want to learn but I feel like the Young Womens lessons are so simple that I am just relearning things that I already know.

Its like a primary lesson. Theres basic questions asked and I just need MORE. I do studying on my own but I feel that these 2 hours are wasted..and I talked to another YW about wanting to learn more and she feels the same way..

The sunday school lesson is taught by the nicest sweetest lady...but we never actually get to the core gospel lesson. She decided to teach a different manuel then every other ward in the world...Gospel principals I think.

The topics are things like " Love your neighbor"and "the value of hard work". We should be learning about the Old Testament. The sunday school president is aware of her changing books..

Instead of even teaching that lesson she uses the time to share personal experinces that are sometimes funny but in no way beneficial to me or my classmates.

Do I turn my head from these lessons and keep awnsering the same questions (What should we do when we're in trouble? Pray) and hope that BYU will provide me with more...?

I'm just so lost in this thirst for more.

[Dravin]

Have you ever tried to steer the topic deeper? Institute may be a bit deeper for you when you get the opportunity to attend it ( didn't find it so during my brief experience with it, but I imagine it varies per teacher), but in my experience unless someone makes an effort to dig deep Sunday School sticks to the basics. Which is understandable as you can have problems with the other end of the spectrum, a teacher teaching deeper than your understanding (listen to Hugh Nibley some time, I have to mentally run to keep up his talking).

[lizzy12]

I try to introduce things relating, that are a bit deeper...and sometimes the teacher will say something like "Good point" or "I'm not sure about that" and keep telling there story or teaching with simple questions.

I just feel at a loss.

[beefche]

Wait...she's not teaching the manual in SS? Does the SS president/bishop know? If they do, then your job is to sustain and support her lessons. If they don't, then let them know and then support whatever is done (whether the manual lessons change or continue).

And as a former youth SS teacher--I would NEVER delve into deeper topics. I teach RS now and we NEVER delve into deeper topics. The church is emphasizing the basics right now. And, in my opinion, we should follow the curriculum as outlined in the manuals--if they don't delve into deeper issues, then the teacher shouldn't do so on his/her own.

And just so you know, what you are learning in SS/YW is what you are going to be learning the rest of your church life. The examples will change (it won't talk about how to deal with something at school, but rather at work or with your family), but the doctrine is the same. So, whatever "deeper" stuff you want/need, it will likely never be taught at church.

[skippy740]

If it were me, I'd probably want more meaningful discussions and lessons over deeper.

There are many "mysteries of the gospel" out there that can be explored, but sunday school is not the place for it.

The Gospel Principles manual is a great manual about the basics of the gospel - that HINTS at enough deeper doctrine, if you can see it. This manual is used for all new converts for their 1st year of church membership - as a way to re-learn and connect to the basics of our faith.

To make it a little more challenging, I'd be wondering and asking how you can teach these principles to others and have more missionary opportunities. It's one thing to learn as a student. It's quite another to study a subject well enough to TEACH it and SHARE it with someone else.

Callings are assigned for the person's individual growth - not just those that they serve.

BTW, you can learn about the Old Testament in seminary - and THAT may be a better place to get a little deeper in different subjects.

Not all teachers are "great" teachers or are on equally high levels of gospel/doctrinal/historical education. Not all teachers know how to ask good questions to spark a great conversation - or to emphasize a great point that most other churches miss.

Love, pray and sustain your teacher. Help as you can. This may not be the time for you to gain personal spiritual nourishment, but to be more of an 'assistant teacher'.

[Wingnut]

My YM/YW is very small so we combine all the 14-18 yr olds for sunday school and during yw we have ages 12-18.

I feel like I'm not benifiting from the time spent in class. I want to learn but I feel like the Young Womens lessons are so simple that I am just relearning things that I already know.

Its like a primary lesson. Theres basic questions asked and I just need MORE. I do studying on my own but I feel that these 2 hours are wasted..and I talked to another YW about wanting to learn more and she feels the same way..

The sunday school lesson is taught by the nicest sweetest lady...but we never actually get to the core gospel lesson. She decided to teach a different manuel then every other ward in the world...Gospel principals I think.

The topics are things like " Love your neighbor"and "the value of hard work". We should be learning about the Old Testament. The sunday school president is aware of her changing books..

Instead of even teaching that lesson she uses the time to share personal experinces that are sometimes funny but in no way beneficial to me or my classmates.

Do I turn my head from these lessons and keep awnsering the same questions (What should we do when we're in trouble? Pray) and hope that BYU will provide me with more...?

I'm just so lost in this thirst for more.

If you're not comfortable talking with your Sunday School teacher about her lessons, and the Sunday School President already isn't doing anything about the deviation, consider scheduling an appointment with your bishop. Explain to him that you feel that the lessons are age-inappropriate and that you -- and other youth you've spoke with (though don't name names) -- don't feel they are benefiting you. Mention that she's not using the approved scheduled curriculum.

Be prepared for the Bishop to ask what you are doing to help make the lessons more meaningful. If you haven't done anything in class to steer conversation in a better direction, be prepared to admit it.

You didn't say anything about your Young Women leaders. Can you talk to them one on one? Try that before you go to the Bishop.

I am the YW President in my ward. We have nine YW, seven of whom are active. Of my nine, four are 12 years old, one is 13, one is 14, two are 15, and one is 17. The two who are less active are 15 and 17, both with birthdays in the next two months. We meet as a whole class, not individual groups. It can be hard to tailor lessons to everyone's needs, especially when the two older ones do come, and also considering that my 14-year-old is a recent convert with a learning disability. We do the best we can to adapt lessons to individual needs, and to address questions and concerns when they come up in class. If one of my girls came to me and said that they weren't feeling fulfilled in our lessons, I would probably ask her what she thought might help. I might ask her if she's be interested in teaching the class one week. I'd be more than willing to work with her on helping her to get the most out of her -- and my -- time with the class.

[mightynancy]

Imagine how we "old" people feel - Gospel Principles is the current RS/Priesthood manual. I've been a member for 43 years.

I'm the YW President in my ward, and yes, I also find the manual to be oversimple. Girls' lives are complicated, and truly, Joanie deciding whether to go the the mall with Barbara on Sunday is not a very relevant story. On the church website, there is a Resource Guide published each year with current revelation and resources (Ensign/New Era article, conference talks, etc) and modern-day advice for teaching the principles in the lesson. Perhaps you'd like to take a look and come to class prepared to enrich the lesson. It's here: Young Women Resource Guide Also, you could ask your YW president if you can help teach once in a while. Maybe if you show her that you girls are deeper than she thinks, she'll encourage you to stretch more.

[RachelleDrew]

Your YW leaders can create meaningful discussion in class while still following the standards of the manual.

If they are still using the same manual they were when I was in the YW leadership this winter, then I would have to agree that the "simplistic" angle of the lessons are almost condescending. The Gospel Principles book is really targeted more towards new members of the church in my experience, so that would almost be worse than the YW manuals.

The young women in my class were smart and curious young ladies. We did everything we could to encourage that. We weren't discussing sacred topics in class by any means, and we were absolutely teaching from the YW manual. Even then, we had meaningful conversations that I think the ladies valued.

As a YW in the class, your best course of action is to encourage the participation of the other YW and to ask engaging questions yourself. Why don't you take initiative and raise your hand during class? Ask your YW president/counselor questions that are on your mind. That's kind of what her calling entails.

Trust me on this one, when the YW ask questions and join in on the lesson then "deep" conversations happen in a very organic way. However, it requires participation from the ladies in order for it to be it's best.

[Wingnut]

If they are still using the same manual they were when I was in the YW leadership this winter, then I would have to agree that the "simplistic" angle of the lessons are almost condescending.

The white one with the turquoise? Yep, that's the same one. Next year we switch to purple -- manual #3. These are the same manuals that were published the year I turned 12 and entered YW. I've often grumbled about how out of date and out of touch they are. The most recent quotes from General Authorities are the late 70's in most cases, and most are even older. Doctrine and principles don't change, but their applications do. The Resource Guide that mightynancy mentioned is helpful in that regard, but I often forget that I have it. My husband frequently has to remind me that developing three new manuals to rotate through, and translating them into various languages prior to distribution is a monumental task, which is why it hasn't been done since 1992. I understand that, but I can't help but wonder how many version of the CHI have been published since then.

[RachelleDrew]

The white one with the turquoise? Yep, that's the same one. Next year we switch to purple -- manual #3. These are the same manuals that were published the year I turned 12 and entered YW. I've often grumbled about how out of date and out of touch they are. The most recent quotes from General Authorities are the late 70's in most cases, and most are even older. Doctrine and principles don't change, but their applications do. The Resource Guide that mightynancy mentioned is helpful in that regard, but I often forget that I have it. My husband frequently has to remind me that developing three new manuals to rotate through, and translating them into various languages prior to distribution is a monumental task, which is why it hasn't been done since 1992. I understand that, but I can't help but wonder how many version of the CHI have been published since then.

Yup, that's the one. It's not that the values presented in them are bad, it's just that they were obviously written for a different time (and in my view, much younger readers.)

Standards can still be observed while embracing a new generation and creating stimulating group discussion. It doesn't have to be one way or the other.

Until then, YW teachers will just have to do their best to stick to the manual while inspiring good conversation in class. It CAN be done, it just requires a little more thought put into preparing the lessons.

[captmoroniRM]

I think it was John Taylor who said a man shows true intelligence when he takes something grandiose and complicated, and can break it down so simply that even a child can understand it. That's the wonderful thing about the gospel. It can be taught so simply that kids in nursery can begin to understand it. There are also more profound and complex the more you dig into them.

I honestly think too many members try and focus on the "deep" doctrines and not enough on the basics. That's why I think the move to have RS and Priesthood go to the Gospel Principles book. We often overlook how simple the gospel is to understand.

As for your teacher, talk to your SS President or bishop. Sometimes, they will find a new teacher. This happened on my mission. The Gospel Principles instructor was teaching some crazy stuff and the Spirit was not there, and this guy was teaching our investigators and new members. We talked to the bishop, and the bishop looked into it. A few weeks later, a new teacher was called. Another option is try and learn from the Spirit and not from the instructor.

I think it was Richard G. Scott a few conferences talked about his attending one sunday school class where the instructor was skilled at teaching and Elder Scott learned a lot, as the spirit taught him. The next week he attended a class where the instructor was less prepared, and less skilled at teaching. He learned equally because he sought the Spirit.

[Wingnut]

Until then, YW teachers will just have to do their best to stick to the manual while inspiring good conversation in class. It CAN be done, it just requires a little more thought put into preparing the lessons.

Nothing wrong with that. :)

[Traveler]

My YM/YW is very small so we combine all the 14-18 yr olds for sunday school and during yw we have ages 12-18.

I feel like I'm not benifiting from the time spent in class. I want to learn but I feel like the Young Womens lessons are so simple that I am just relearning things that I already know.

Its like a primary lesson. Theres basic questions asked and I just need MORE. I do studying on my own but I feel that these 2 hours are wasted..and I talked to another YW about wanting to learn more and she feels the same way..

The sunday school lesson is taught by the nicest sweetest lady...but we never actually get to the core gospel lesson. She decided to teach a different manuel then every other ward in the world...Gospel principals I think.

The topics are things like " Love your neighbor"and "the value of hard work". We should be learning about the Old Testament. The sunday school president is aware of her changing books..

Instead of even teaching that lesson she uses the time to share personal experinces that are sometimes funny but in no way beneficial to me or my classmates.

Do I turn my head from these lessons and keep awnsering the same questions (What should we do when we're in trouble? Pray) and hope that BYU will provide me with more...?

I'm just so lost in this thirst for more.

You may want to do a word search through the scriptures on the word “pride”. This may or may not help prepare you for your YW lesions.

The Traveler

[Guest]

Interestingly, my husband has been complaining to me that he has been in his mixed martial arts class for almost a year and he's still being taught the same thing he was taught on the first day of class. He says to me, "I get it. I know it already, I can do the moves. I've done it a thousand times!".

What he doesn't see is that there's really no "deeper" principles. There is only "refinement". So much so that you can be introduced to all the martial arts moves of the fighting style in a month and everything else is just a repitition of it. Not because they're just boring like that, but because, the more it is repeated, the more you can refine the principle. The more you start to connect the dots so that you are not just learning the "sequence of the moves" but to understand exactly "Why" the sequence is as it is... so that the more you do it over and over, the more it becomes part of your instinctive behavior. Eventually, after YEARS of perfecting the same basic principles, you can then be faced by an opponent - whether it be at a tournament or at the mall when some dude tries to put a gun to your head to steal your wallet - and you won't have to "think" which sequence was I supposed to do in this situation? It just instinctively happens so that you can overpower your opponent in a quickness and avoid getting hurt.

This is what you are learning now. Going over the basic principles over and over until you're 90 or beyond is a VERY GOOD thing. It is this learning that teaches you the "whys" and "wherefores" putting the patchwork quilt of gospel doctrine together into one cohesive LIVING GOSPEL so you can LIVE it. So that when you are partying at your friend's house having the time of your life, you can immediately sense the moment something undersirable is afoot and you can instinctively know what to do without having to think... wait, it's just a little bit of nonsense, and I don't want to be the wet blanket, surely the Lord will understand, right?

So, this Sunday, go to your teacher and give her a hug and thank her profusely for teaching you the basics again.

[Justice]

Right now, the Church is telling us to teach with our hearts instead of our manuals.

I don't think that means delve into the Adam-God theroy, but I think the Church is wanting deeper, more meaningful duscussions at church than in the recent past.

Neither do I think it means abandon the manual altogether. I think it means it wants it's teaching teaching by the Spirit. If that means a brief, deeper discussion, I think it is encouraged.

In a recent local leadership training session, Elder Scott said that the occasional false doctrine taught in classes won't destroy the church or it's members, he said complacency and laziness would.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Justice

[lizzy12]

We have a new teacher for the 16-18 year olds.

However, i've recently been told I won't be attending that class...even though I'm 16.

Would it be wrong to just show up to the other class and see how it goes?

[Wingnut]

However, i've recently been told I won't be attending that class...even though I'm 16.

Reason?

[Dravin]

Reason?

Do the Young Women move up classes at the same time similar to how primary doesn't bounce you up the moment you turn the correct age? Not to imply Young Women are primary but with the Young Men movement is primarily determined by ordination.

[Wingnut]

Do the Young Women move up classes at the same time similar to how primary doesn't bounce you up the moment you turn the correct age? Not to imply Young Women are primary but with the Young Men movement is primarily determined by ordination.

That could be it. If lizzy turned 16 during 2010, they're probably just waiting until the turn of the calendar to bump her into that class. If she will be turning 17 before the end of 2010, she should already be in it.

However, where this class is newly formed, and there are only seven Sundays left this year, I don't see why they won't just let her attend now.

[lizzy12]

All the other young women in my grade are in the upper level class because I am graduating high school early therefore missing a whole year of Yw's and sunday school. I don't see why I can't just move up. I'm going to talk to the bishop.

I should be in sunday school with those that will leave yw's the same time I do, and I want a beneficial last few months.

I have had a few amazing sunday school teachers and a lot that lacked preparation..and I just feel like I missed out...

[beefche]

lizzy, I'm confused. You are 16 years old and graduating early. That doesn't necessarily mean that you leave YW once you graduate. Typically, you would still attend YW until you are 18. Those with the CHI can elaborate on the reasons when a YW leaves the program and enters RS.

[MarginOfError]

lizzy, I'm confused. You are 16 years old and graduating early. That doesn't necessarily mean that you leave YW once you graduate. Typically, you would still attend YW until you are 18. Those with the CHI can elaborate on the reasons when a YW leaves the program and enters RS.

Turning 18 and giving birth to a child.

ADDITION: Sunday School classes change on the calendar year, not with a participant's birthday. Classes for young men and young women change with the participant's birthday.

Edited November 9, 2010 by MarginOfError

[Wingnut]

From the (outgoing) 2006 YW chapter of the CHI:

Young women ordinarily move into the Relief Society when they reach their 18th birthday. However, because of special circumstances, such as individual maturity, desire to continue with peer group associates, school graduation, and college attendance, a young woman may move into Relief Society earlier or remain in Young Women longer. Such exceptions should occur after the young woman consults with her parents and bishop and receives their approval.

With regard to MOE's comment about giving birth to a child, the same chapter states that while a young woman is pregnant, she may still attend YW classes and activities, again in consultation with parents and leaders. Young women under age 17 who are unwed mothers have the same option. Young women over 17 who are unwed mothers are invited to join RS and no longer participate in YW.

[lizzy12]

I was told you leave young womens once you graduate or turn 18. Whatever comes first.

And I'll be going to BYU-I in the fall, and i doubt there singles wards have a young womens group :)

[Doctrine_Guy]

I was told you leave young womens once you graduate or turn 18. Whatever comes first.

And I'll be going to BYU-I in the fall, and i doubt there singles wards have a young womens group :)

Great place to go. My wife graduated from BYU-I . . . . I graduated from RICKS (before the name change).

And you are correct, no YW groups in the student wards.