Boycott against Amazon.com sparked by book on pedophilla

[Tarnished]

Wandering around my facebook page today and came across this article which was brought up by a news group that I follow on fb.

Amazon.com title defending pedophilia sparks boycott call - CNN.com

Reading the article made me really wonder about a person who would write such a book. But mostly I saw it as another step taken by the pedophillia community to make child molestation legal. Looking through the comments I found that people are generally split between censoring it and not censoring it due to freedom of speech. Many people plan to boycott Amazon and some do not. Almost every comment I read was a comment of disgust.

It made me personally worry about the already declining morality of our society today, and made me wonder about what people here think about the whole thing, or if anyone had heard about it. Is anyone here planning to boycott Amazon due to this book?

[Wingnut]

But mostly I saw it as another step taken by the pedophillia community to make child molestation legal.

Another step? I didn't know this was an effort being made at all.

Is anyone here planning to boycott Amazon due to this book?

Nope.

[Dravin]

Considering I don't boycott over the scads of other objectionable material when it comes to compatibilty with my morals I'm not inclined to boycott them. The fact they sell books defending homosexuality or that they sell 'adult' material hasn't done it. Absent offical endorsement as the offical position of Amazon.com (that pedophilia is morally defensible and they will work to have this recognized) on the matter I'm inclined to continue enjoying my free two day shipping.

It made me personally worry about the already declining morality of our society today,

I wouldn't worry until the book takes off as a best seller (not based on shock value) or its arguements enter mainstream dialog. That someone with a morally controversial position can get a book out there doesn't shock me much.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Dravin

[Wingnut]

I just searched the site, and it's not even there anymore.

[Dravin]

I just searched the site, and it's not even there anymore.

The dollar has spoken or Amazon finally realized what they were selling. I suppose you can pick either or both depending on your cynicism.

[Wingnut]

My guess is that the PR gods have spoken.

[Dravin]

My guess is that the PR gods have spoken.

I am cynical enough to consider PR a function of profitablity when it comes to a for profit organization. :)

[Tarnished]

From what the article I posted stated, Amazon took the book off its site on Wednesday (yesterday). I am just curious about people's thoughts on the matter. I personally will not be boycotting Amazon because only part of what I buy there is books and when it comes to what they choose to sell or not to sell is really up to them as a company. As Dravin has mentioned the site has many books already that conflict with my morals and I still buy stuff from them.

As for attempts at the legalizing of pedophillia:

Edited November 11, 2010 by Gwen
links deleted till mod approvial

[MarginOfError]

I wouldn't boycott over this. It was legally written material and protected by the first amendment. The premise of the book is actually rather interesting, in that it sets up etiquette for pedophiles to follow so as to minimize the impact of their choices on society and the youth. I imagine it discussed such things as consent, openness, etc. While I don't agree with his views, I do believe that the author has a right to make his case.

I'm disappointed that Amazon pulled the book, actually. But I recognize that people are free to make their voice heard through boycotting, and it's fine with me that they did so. All-in-all, I'd say the system has worked quite well in this case.

[prisonchaplain]

This is a flash in the pan. Society has definitely become less modest, and more promiscuous. And yes, as a whole, we are less religious and far more tolerant of behaviors that Libertarians would call "victimless crimes between consenting adults." However, when it comes to children, as a whole, we remain rather Puritanical (good, me thinks). Even youth beauty paegants are increasingly questioned. There are secular musings about "the Lolita phenomenon." We can all check our neighborhoods for child molesters now. And we do incarcerate people for purchasing child porn--it's a federal offense.

So...unless there is a drastic change in culture, we won't likely be seeing this kind of thing accepted for at least a few decades. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, this kind of child abuse was more acceptable in the past, and in a few cultures today, then it is in our oh-so-hedonistic society today.

Afghan boy dancers sexually abused by former warlords | Reuters

Edited November 11, 2010 by prisonchaplain
add link

[Tarnished]

Does anyone think that it fits the conditions of The Miller Test?

Miller test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If so does that remove the right of free speech from this book? I only bring this up because someone on the facebook news page brought up the Miller Test and I was unfamiliar with it. I thought I might bring it up and see if others here might be more familiar with it.

[Wingnut]

Besides the Miller Test, there's also the 1982 case of New York vs. Ferber that could be looked at. That's a little different though. In that case, an adult store owner tried to sell a video to an undercover cop of underage boys masturbating. The Amazon book in question has no pictures, and the cover seems to depict a mostly casual embrace.

[miztrniceguy]

Estimated the guy made over 10k in one day from downloads. There was a huge outcry on twitter also. My wife, who formats e-books for kindles and other writers/publisher etc were all abuzz about it.

[Blackmarch]

Wandering around my facebook page today and came across this article which was brought up by a news group that I follow on fb.

Amazon.com title defending pedophilia sparks boycott call - CNN.com

Reading the article made me really wonder about a person who would write such a book. But mostly I saw it as another step taken by the pedophillia community to make child molestation legal. Looking through the comments I found that people are generally split between censoring it and not censoring it due to freedom of speech. Many people plan to boycott Amazon and some do not. Almost every comment I read was a comment of disgust.

It made me personally worry about the already declining morality of our society today, and made me wonder about what people here think about the whole thing, or if anyone had heard about it. Is anyone here planning to boycott Amazon due to this book?

umm as of yesterday it was reported that Amazon removed the book from being able to purchase it (according to CNN.com).

1 person is a poor example for a community. If amazon were to continue with the selling of it I'd have no problem boycotting them. as boycotting is just as an equal expression of freedom.

[prisonchaplain]

I hate this scenario. God surely hates this book. If I owned a bookstore, I wouldn't sell it. BUT...what if I owned a huge internet market, including a niche for self-publishers of e-books? Assuming I sold tens of thousands, would I really want to start vetting them for anything other than illegality? BTW, someone else has done a search and found dozens of objectionable products at Amazon. It's looking increasingly like a can of worms. If I were cynical, I'd wonder if B&N were up to dirty tricks.

[Blackmarch]

I hate this scenario. God surely hates this book. If I owned a bookstore, I wouldn't sell it. BUT...what if I owned a huge internet market, including a niche for self-publishers of e-books? Assuming I sold tens of thousands, would I really want to start vetting them for anything other than illegality? BTW, someone else has done a search and found dozens of objectionable products at Amazon. It's looking increasingly like a can of worms. If I were cynical, I'd wonder if B&N were up to dirty tricks.

Legalwise I can't really find anything wrong or think of any law it violates with selling the book over the internet unless it actually posts names and places of individuals to target. Which why i think in this case the only two best options for getting amazon to remove it is boycotting or getting a petition going...

[Guest mormonmusic]

Another step? I didn't know this was an effort being made at all.

Nope.

If you mean you weren't aware there are movements in society to promote pedophilia, look up the North American Man-Boy Love Assocation (NAMBLA).

South-Park spoofed the name calling it the "National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes" (NAMBLA), which provides a more benign interpretation of their mission.

[prisonchaplain]

Legalwise I can't really find anything wrong or think of any law it violates with selling the book over the internet unless it actually posts names and places of individuals to target. Which why i think in this case the only two best options for getting amazon to remove it is boycotting or getting a petition going...

My question is why bother? Let this flash in the pan die out. By highlighting it, giving it undue attention, we actually generate sales. If Amazon starts censoring what it allows to be self-published it becomes just another publisher, rather than a store front for self-publishers. It can choose to do so, but again, if so, there are plenty of people and groups with lists of objectionable material, just waiting for Amazon to pull that switch.

[Blackmarch]

My question is why bother?

because one standing idly by when a choice is placed before you is generally a bad idea.

and two the cost of standing idly by is rising. The question is what is the right way of doing so?

to note i think this has been good for me, as i've only used amazon once or twice to get things like electronics so i wasn't aware that they sold things of this calibre, and without having any age/ID checks to view such material.

Let this flash in the pan die out. By highlighting it, giving it undue attention, we actually generate sales. If Amazon starts censoring what it allows to be self-published it becomes just another publisher, rather than a store front for self-publishers. It can choose to do so, but again, if so, there are plenty of people and groups with lists of objectionable material, just waiting for Amazon to pull that switch.

The pan's already been flashed (you can thank the news for that), and is now before me and now it's up to me as to what kind of message I want to give- both to amazon and to those around me (Is it ok, or is it not)... and there aren't many ways of telling big corporations that certain things are going too far.

As far as i am concerned with amazon it is just another store/publisher, and if they want my participation and money, especially when they pass themselves off as a source to get stuff for the family, then they need to be able to go through one or two of my hoops at least.... Otherwise my money and participation can support other companies.

If one has used Amazon's services in the past and liked the service, then I think it's resonable to let them know why a person would remove their customership and what they find fault with.

I'm absolutely certain that there are groups that have lists of "objectionable material" that they complain to amazon on hourly basis. Amazon's search engine is certainly pretty censored.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Blackmarch

[HoosierGuy]

I wonder how many in the Pentagon bought it.

[pam]

I wonder how many in the Pentagon bought it.

Huh?

[HoosierGuy]

Huh?

I remember hearing somewhere (radio) or read somewhere (internet) about some people in the Pentagon having paid for internet subscriptions to illegal porn sites.

Doing a quick search I found this:

Federal Eye - Pentagon workers tied to child porn

[Blackmarch]

I wonder how many in the Pentagon bought it.

ouch

[MarginOfError]

Author arrested

I'm really not sure how I feel about this. The grounds for arresting the author was that he sold the book. I guess I'm wondering what evidence they have that any child was harmed in producing the content. Something feels wrong with this arrest.

[Wingnut]

It sounds like the Sheriff has a personal agenda with the guy.

Judd, known throughout Florida as a crusader against child predators, said he was incensed when he heard about the book and that no one had arrested Greaves for selling it.

"What's wrong with a society that has gotten to the point that we can't arrest child pornographers and child molesters who write a book about how to rape a child?" Judd said.