Should the Jews be Held Blameless

[Bensalem]

A couple of threads here have discussed the role of the Jewish people and that of Pilate in the crucifixion of Jesus. Much hatred through history and to this day has been directed toward the Jewish people. Christ had to die on the cross in order to fulfill scripture. So shouldn't the Jews be held blameless?

In the same vain, God promised to make them "a hiss and a byword". Can a persecutor of the Jewish people find justification for their acts in these words?

What is the LDS perspective on histories treatment of the Jewish people and what is their ultimate fate in the eyes of God?

[Traveler]

A couple of threads here have discussed the role of the Jewish people and that of Pilate in the crucifixion of Jesus. Much hatred through history and to this day has been directed toward the Jewish people. Christ had to die on the cross in order to fulfill scripture. So shouldn't the Jews be held blameless?

In the same vain, God promised to make them "a hiss and a byword". Can a persecutor of the Jewish people find justification for their acts in these words?

What is the LDS perspective on histories treatment of the Jewish people and what is their ultimate fate in the eyes of God?

In essence we believe that each individual will be held accountable for their own sins and not for the transgressions of others. We believe the scriptures are quit clear about this.

The Traveler

[pam]

While this was written in 1976, I think it still gives a pretty accurate description of our views on Jews.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Message to Judah from Joseph

[Bensalem]

In essence we believe that each individual will be held accountable for their own sins and not for the transgressions of others. We believe the scriptures are quit clear about this.

The Traveler

Yes, as stated in the Articles of Faith. But what I am seeking is an understanding of what the LDS church teaches about the inevitability of Christ’s execution and the message we should walk away with.

Weren’t the Jewish people fulfilling God’s will for Christ?

Their acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah was never part of the plan of salvation was it?

If all had received him for whom he was, would the world as we know it have ended there and then in Jerusalem?

[NeuroTypical]

But what I am seeking is an understanding of what the LDS church teaches about the inevitability of Christ’s execution and the message we should walk away with.

Here's a lesson from our Gospel Principles Sunday School manual. This manual is the standard source of basics for the church everywhere in the world, and is taught to people investigating the church, new members, or anyone who wants a refresher course in the basics.

He Redeemed Us from Our Sins and Saved Us from Death

• As you study this section, take time to ponder the events of the Atonement.

(For teachers: Pondering invites the Spirit. Consider asking class members or family members to quietly read the final two sections of the chapter, thinking about their feelings for the Savior. Then invite those who feel comfortable doing so to share their thoughts with the class.)

Near the end of His mortal ministry, Jesus prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for all the sins of mankind. He had been condemned to die because He had testified to the people that He was the Son of God.

The night before His Crucifixion, Jesus went to a garden called Gethsemane. Soon He was weighed down by deep sorrow and wept as He prayed. Latter-day Apostle Orson F. Whitney was permitted to see the Savior’s suffering in a vision. Seeing the Savior weep, he said: “I was so moved at the sight that I also wept, out of pure sympathy. My whole heart went out to Him; I loved Him with all my soul, and longed to be with Him as I longed for nothing else” (“The Divinity of Jesus Christ,” Improvement Era, Jan. 1926, 224–25; see also Ensign, Dec. 2003, 10). Jesus “went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt” (Matthew 26:39).

In a modern revelation the Savior described how great His suffering was, saying it caused Him “to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:18). He suffered “according to the flesh,” taking upon himself our pains, sicknesses, infirmities, and sins (see Alma 7:10–13). No mortal person can comprehend just how great this burden was. No other person could have endured such agony of body and spirit. “He descended below all things … that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth” (D&C 88:6).

But His suffering was not yet complete. The following day, Jesus was beaten, humiliated, and spit upon. He was required to carry His own cross; then He was lifted up and nailed to it. He was tortured in one of the cruelest ways men have ever devised. After suffering on the cross, He cried out in agony, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). In Jesus’s bitterest hour, the Father had withdrawn from Him so Jesus could finish suffering the penalty for the sins of all mankind that Jesus might have complete victory over the forces of sin and death (see James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 3rd ed. [1916], 660–61).

When the Savior knew that His sacrifice had been accepted by the Father, He exclaimed in a loud voice, “It is finished” (John 19:30). “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit” (Luke 23:46). He bowed His head and voluntarily gave up His spirit. The Savior was dead. A violent earthquake shook the earth.

Some friends took the Savior’s body to a tomb, where it lay until the third day. During this time His spirit went and organized the missionary work to other spirits who needed to receive His gospel (see 1 Peter 3:18–20; D&C 138). On the third day, a Sunday, He returned to His body and took it up again. He was the first to overcome death. The prophecy had been fulfilled “that he must rise again from the dead” (John 20:9).

Shortly after His Resurrection, the Savior appeared to the Nephites and established His Church in the Americas. He taught the people and blessed them. This moving account is found in 3 Nephi 11 through 28.

As you can see, it doesn't even identify who the people who crucified Jesus were. The message was that His death was necessary to make possible the atonement.

I've been in and out of this church for 40 years now. I've run across the occasional racist, the occasional mysoginist sexist, a few staunch anti-communists, and more than one gay-basher. I've never run into an anti-semite, or anyone who dislikes or otherwise blames the Jewish people for Christ's death.

We mormons figure we're adopted into the family of Abraham to participate in the blessings and duties that came with the Abrahamic covenant. Our lessons and hymns are full of talk about the blessings of Zion and how Israel will be protected against it's enemies. We study the old testament, and in particular spend a lot of time in the book of Isaiah (although we all struggle to understand what the heck he's saying). If you're looking for antisemitism in this church, you'll have to look pretty darn hard.

LM

Edited November 27, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[GeneC]

I find it safe to assume that when Christ said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" that our Father forgave them (everyone involved) and it doesn't even really matter what we think. Any blaming will be on our own heads.

[HEthePrimate]

In essence we believe that each individual will be held accountable for their own sins and not for the transgressions of others. We believe the scriptures are quit clear about this.

The Traveler

That. You hit it right on the nose, Traveler!

Holding "The Jewish People" responsible for the murder of Christ would be about as stupid as holding the 14-year-old German exchange student my friends hosted earlier this year responsible for the Holocaust. Some Jews accused Christ and brought him before Pilate, and some Romans carried out his execution. But most Romans and most Jews had nothing to do with the matter. In fact, most of Jesus' followers were Jewish.

I don't really understand Americans' attitude about the Jews. On the one hand, there seems to be an undercurrent of anti-Semitism. On the other hand, you have those who seem to view Jews with a certain amount of awe, because they are "God's Chosen People." Whatever. They're people, IMO, just like the rest of us, and some of them are cool, and others not so much.

Edited November 27, 2010 by HEthePrimate

[bert10]

"They know not what they do"

To fully know what one does...and still choose darkness is to become sons of perdition. Their blindness saved them from the worst punishment but not all of it. For they had a portion of the Spirit of Christ within them and it taught them sufficiently to know good from evil. But they not knowing the will of GOD shall receive few stripes even though they have done things worthy of many stripes.[Jesus]

As for our attitudes towards the Jews ...By what measure we judge others, God shall measure to us again. And also to the extent that we forgive others God shall forgive us.

So how can we be justified in judging and condemning by the revealed laws of heaven that Christ gave us?

God said devils point the finger and blames. Judas did and Jesus called him a devil. And how far did Adam and Eve get with God when God demanded an account for doing their failure?

Are they held blameless? They should. According to GOD. No not by a long shot. But is not our job to assign culpability and the percentage of it.

bert10

A couple of threads here have discussed the role of the Jewish people and that of Pilate in the crucifixion of Jesus. Much hatred through history and to this day has been directed toward the Jewish people. Christ had to die on the cross in order to fulfill scripture. So shouldn't the Jews be held blameless?

In the same vain, God promised to make them "a hiss and a byword". Can a persecutor of the Jewish people find justification for their acts in these words?

What is the LDS perspective on histories treatment of the Jewish people and what is their ultimate fate in the eyes of God?

[pam]

I don't really understand Americans' attitude about the Jews.

??????

[Bensalem]

While this was written in 1976, I think it still gives a pretty accurate description of our views on Jews.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Message to Judah from Joseph

Thanks for the link. I am going to give the article (14 printed pages) a second reading before I reply more fully.

What I noticed initially is that President Benson speaks of the modern nation of Israel as being Israel. I thought the LDS were Israel. Likewise, I don’t understand how 100 years after Orson Hyde “dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews” a United Nations decry becomes the fulfillment of his prayer. Maybe those that had settled in the land during the 100 years after the prayer was offered were the descendants of the tribes of Israel who would eventually accepted the gospel...and their displacement by the European Jew just threw a wrench in the works.

Elder Benson also mentions the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem as being a requirement, but would it be a temple of our Lord if built by unbelievers? Would Jesus return to the temple of an apostate people? I thought he would rule from Utah as the LDS prophet yielded the reigns of His kingdom.

On the other hand, I will certainly admit that without consideration of the prayer by Orson Hyde (being under the direction of a prophet of God) the present inhabitants have no claim to the land. If the state of Israel as constituted today is fulfillment of the prophecies of old, than it is better to give recognition to the LDS Church as being an act of God than it is to link it to the aftermath of WWII and the acts of men.

[NeuroTypical]

I don’t understand how 100 years after Orson Hyde “dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews” a United Nations decry becomes the fulfillment of his prayer.

I wouldn't call a UN decry the fulfillment of his prayer. I'd call all the returning Jews a fulfillment of his prayer.

[Bensalem]

I wouldn't call a UN decry the fulfillment of his prayer. I'd call all the returning Jews a fulfillment of his prayer.

But the former prompted the latter. It was the declaration of an Israeli state that promoted the arrival of the Jews. If the LDS are Israel and the gathering place of Israel, then doesn’t a man-made Israel become a problem in contradiction?

And what of the displaced masses? At the end of the war there were many more (a higher percentage of) Christians in Palestine than today. Were not these the sons of Abraham in Christ with a claim to the promise? Now we have a majority of two cultures which both deny the true Israel founded in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

More perplexing is if the establishment of a second Israel separate from Christ’s Israel in the church was indeed the act of God, why than don’t they have peace? Does God and Christ establish hatred or does He establish peace, even as the saints have?

I just don’t see the hand of God acting in the establishment or the governance of the nation of Israel in the Middle East.

What are your thoughts?

[NeuroTypical]

It was the declaration of an Israeli state that promoted the arrival of the Jews.

If you're meaning to say that there were few or no Jews in palestine before the UN mandate, you and I have obviously been reading different histories of the area. My main source uses all sorts of data and accounts and reports and whatnot, to support the assertion that there has been a Jewish presence in the area-eventually-named-Palestine since they originally showed up - and that Jewish population (due to both immigration and inmigration) had been growing for some time before the UN's mandate.

But even if there were no Jews there until the UN's mandate, no, I still wouldn't accept your point about a man-made Israel being a problem in contradiction. Because unless the world's Jewish population woke up one morning to find a heavenly chariot waiting to give them a ride, then Israel is 'man-made' by the fact that a bunch of humans got up from where they were, and through their own man-made efforts, went to Israel.

I just don’t see the hand of God acting in the establishment or the governance of the nation of Israel in the Middle East.

Fine by me. I don't have such a problem. But then again, I also see divine guidance in the birth of the USA and it's founding document, even though I read all sorts of histories and biographies about the people there at the time, and their efforts and arguments and failings and imperfect compromises and all.

LM

[prisonchaplain]

It's not hard for me to believe that scriptures contain prophecies and descriptions that apply sometimes to the children of Israel, who retain the Abrahamic covenant, and that sometimes those same passages can apply to "spiritual Israel," or the Church.

[Dravin]

It's not hard for me to believe that scriptures contain prophecies and descriptions that apply sometimes to the children of Israel, who retain the Abrahamic covenant, and that sometimes those same passages can apply to "spiritual Israel," or the Church.

Isaiah is particularly riddled with this, at least from the LDS view.

[Bensalem]

If you're meaning to say that there were few or no Jews in palestine before the UN mandate, you and I have obviously been reading different histories of the area. My main source uses all sorts of data and accounts and reports and whatnot, to support the assertion that there has been a Jewish presence in the area-eventually-named-Palestine since they originally showed up - and that Jewish population (due to both immigration and inmigration) had been growing for some time before the UN's mandate.

But even if there were no Jews there until the UN's mandate, no, I still wouldn't accept your point about a man-made Israel being a problem in contradiction. Because unless the world's Jewish population woke up one morning to find a heavenly chariot waiting to give them a ride, then Israel is 'man-made' by the fact that a bunch of humans got up from where they were, and through their own man-made efforts, went to Israel.

Fine by me. I don't have such a problem. But then again, I also see divine guidance in the birth of the USA and it's founding document, even though I read all sorts of histories and biographies about the people there at the time, and their efforts and arguments and failings and imperfect compromises and all.

LM

Okay, I get your point (correct me if I'm wrong). The Jewish people have a claim to being Israel because they are Jewish. They required no UN mandate to stake their claim. My question remains: If the LDS church is Israel by way of an act of God, how does God acknowledge or accommodate this other Israel?

If anyone can demonstrate to me that they are the true Israel then perhaps I would immigrate. It seems one or the other Israel must be walking with their shoes on the wrong feet. There is clearly one Israel built in Christ and one Israel built on the denial of Christ. Isn't it for them to come to the knowledge of Christ and join the LDS church?

I find it curious that those in the Middle East are negotiating a two state solution between Jews and Palestinians, while ignoring the true dichotomy of there being two peoples claiming to be Israel. That would be like the LDS church negotiating a Christian annex to their Temples with the Catholics.

Has God become so compromising as to create confusion about what Israel is to be?

[prisonchaplain]

Old Testament ... New Testament ... Another Testament...why do you suppose God would not continue a relationship with those under the Abrahamic covenant, while offering those of us who are under Christ a superior covenant? Efforts will continue to bring Jewish people (indeed all peoples) to a saving knowledge of Jesus. However, that some are not there yet does not negate any past dealings he may have with them.

[GeneC]

Orson Hyde continued on to Jerusalem alone. During his travels Orson met many notable personalities, some of whom were amazed at and interested in his mission. He enjoyed his travels through Europe and while waiting for his visa in Munich, learned to write and speak German.

Tired and weary after several months’ travel of nearly 10,000 miles, Orson’s enthusiasm was revitalized as he finally arrived at the sacred city of Jerusalem. Here he carefully walked along a dark, narrow street, avoiding the heavily loaded camels that traveled toward him. In the early morning hour he passed through the ancient gate in the old decayed wall near the brook, Kidron. As Orson crossed over the small brook and climbed up the gentle slope of the hill, bright rays of sunshine encompassed the Mount of Olives. It was a magnificent sight as he gazed upon the surrounding countryside from the top of the mount.

There, alone, on Sunday, October 24, 1841, Orson wrote and offered the prayer dedicating Palestine for the return of the Jews and for the building of a temple in the future. For the first time in 1,800 years, an apostle stood again on the Mount of Olives. After his prayer Orson Hyde built two stone altars patterned after those of ancient Israel for memorials. The first memorial was on the Mount of Olives and the second on Mt. Moriah.

In 1960 Elder George Q. Morris spoke of “God’s promise that he would gather Jews to Jerusalem, and I think perhaps we may well now not continue saying the Jews are going to gather in Jerusalem. I think now we may well say they have gathered. … The Jews have returned to Palestine.”

Orson Hyde believed that the mission to Palestine was part of his divine destiny. This mission illustrated his great faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God and his belief in the Jews’ eventual return to Palestine preceding the coming of the Messiah as it has been prophesied by both ancient and modern prophets. There was no question in Orson’s mind that he had helped to prepare the way for the gathering of the members of the tribe of Judah and the final restoration of their homeland. He had traveled 20,000 miles to fulfill a mission call for his beloved Church, which was probably one of the longest and most hazardous missions undertaken in this dispensation.

(History of Israel & "Palestine")

History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps

Religious Studies Center

1.5. The Scattering and Gathering of Israel: God's Covenant with Abraham Remembered through the Ages | Religious Studies Center

[Traveler]

Yes, as stated in the Articles of Faith. But what I am seeking is an understanding of what the LDS church teaches about the inevitability of Christ’s execution and the message we should walk away with.

Weren’t the Jewish people fulfilling God’s will for Christ?

Their acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah was never part of the plan of salvation was it?

If all had received him for whom he was, would the world as we know it have ended there and then in Jerusalem?

There are many Jews that accept Jesus as the Messiah both ancient and modern. There are also many that reject Jesus as the Messiah both ancient and modern. There are also many that do not receive the "fullness" of the Messiah (both ancient and modern) because they are become led by "false prophets" and "teachers".

These possibilities were planned as part of the plan of salvation but it is the “agency” of each person to determine their own role.

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

My question remains: If the LDS church is Israel by way of an act of God, how does God acknowledge or accommodate this other Israel?

The modern, political nation of Israel is not all the house of Israel; it's primarily descendants of the tribe of Judah. The LDS Church sees itself as gathering, primarily, the other 11 (twelve, really, since you separate Ephraim and Manasseh) tribes.

So, both the gathering in the Holy Land and the gathering taking place under the auspices of the LDS Church, can be rightly called "Israel".

James E. Talmage discusses this in some depth in his Articles of Faith.

It seems one or the other Israel must be walking with their shoes on the wrong feet. There is clearly one Israel built in Christ and one Israel built on the denial of Christ.

I think it would be more accurate to state that one branch of Israel preoccupies itself with conforming to ancient revelation, while the rest of Israel preoccupies itself with conforming to modern revelation.

Isn't it for them to come to the knowledge of Christ and join the LDS church?

They should, yes. And, at the time of the Second Coming, most of them will.

I find it curious that those in the Middle East are negotiating a two state solution between Jews and Palestinians, while ignoring the true dichotomy of there being two peoples claiming to be Israel. That would be like the LDS church negotiating a Christian annex to their Temples with the Catholics.

Not sure if I'm following you here, but the Palestinians don't consider themselves to be part of Israel. They are cousins--descended from Israel (Jacob)'s half-uncle Ishmael.

Has God become so compromising as to create confusion about what Israel is to be?

Certainly not. But God values obedience and sacrifice to His name, even if those doing the obeying and sacrificing are a little confused as to the finer theological points.

If a Catholic gets divine bonus points for going to church on Sunday, why shouldn't a Jew get divine bonus points for building a temple according to the prescriptions of the Torah?

[volgadon]

Hi, I'm an LDS Israeli.

But the former prompted the latter. It was the declaration of an Israeli state that promoted the arrival of the Jews. If the LDS are Israel and the gathering place of Israel, then doesn’t a man-made Israel become a problem in contradiction?

Wrong. Ha-Yeshuv ha-Yashan, Mishkanot Sha'ananim, Nahlaot, Israel Bak, the Abo family, E'eleh ba-Tamar, Ha-Aliyah ha-Rishonah, Hovevei Tzion, Bilu, Yoel Moshe Salomon, Petah-Tikvah, Rishon le-Tzion, Zichron Ya'akov, Rosh-Pina, Kinneret, Deganiah Alef and Bet, ha-Aliyah ha-Shniyah, Tel-Aviv, ha-Aliyah ha-Shlishit, ha-Aliyah ha-Revi'it, Homa u-Migdal, etc., etc., ad nauseum. My point is that there was a Jewish presence and an effort to emigrate to Israel. The establishment of a state by the UN granted us sovereignity, and made possible further emigration. That we LDS also consider ourselves a spiritual Israel does not make the children of Israel a "man-made Israel."

And what of the displaced masses?

Such as the Jews of Yemen, Lebanon, and Syria, or the Jews in the Old City?

At the end of the war there were many more (a higher percentage of) Christians in Palestine than today. Were not these the sons of Abraham in Christ with a claim to the promise?

The reason a higher percentage of Christian Palestinians than Muslim (or other) emigrates is because the Christians tend to be better educated and organised than the Muslims, and are better able to get visas and find good employment.

Now we have a majority of two cultures which both deny the true Israel founded in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Not sure I understand what you are getting at.

More perplexing is if the establishment of a second Israel separate from Christ’s Israel in the church was indeed the act of God, why than don’t they have peace? Does God and Christ establish hatred or does He establish peace, even as the saints have?

As you brought up the Palestinian Christians earlier, do you happen to know much about Arab newspapers in Palestine at the turn of the 20th c., their editors and their editorials?

I just don’t see the hand of God acting in the establishment or the governance of the nation of Israel in the Middle East.

What are your thoughts?

I am going to be a little blunt and say that your knowledge of the region and its history appears a little shallow. Perhaps that is why you don't see the hand of God in all this.

[volgadon]

Orson Hyde continued on to Jerusalem alone. During his travels Orson met many notable personalities, some of whom were amazed at and interested in his mission. He enjoyed his travels through Europe and while waiting for his visa in Munich, learned to write and speak German.

Tired and weary after several months’ travel of nearly 10,000 miles, Orson’s enthusiasm was revitalized as he finally arrived at the sacred city of Jerusalem. Here he carefully walked along a dark, narrow street, avoiding the heavily loaded camels that traveled toward him. In the early morning hour he passed through the ancient gate in the old decayed wall near the brook, Kidron. As Orson crossed over the small brook and climbed up the gentle slope of the hill, bright rays of sunshine encompassed the Mount of Olives. It was a magnificent sight as he gazed upon the surrounding countryside from the top of the mount.

There, alone, on Sunday, October 24, 1841, Orson wrote and offered the prayer dedicating Palestine for the return of the Jews and for the building of a temple in the future. For the first time in 1,800 years, an apostle stood again on the Mount of Olives. After his prayer Orson Hyde built two stone altars patterned after those of ancient Israel for memorials. The first memorial was on the Mount of Olives and the second on Mt. Moriah.

In 1960 Elder George Q. Morris spoke of “God’s promise that he would gather Jews to Jerusalem, and I think perhaps we may well now not continue saying the Jews are going to gather in Jerusalem. I think now we may well say they have gathered. … The Jews have returned to Palestine.”

Orson Hyde believed that the mission to Palestine was part of his divine destiny. This mission illustrated his great faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God and his belief in the Jews’ eventual return to Palestine preceding the coming of the Messiah as it has been prophesied by both ancient and modern prophets. There was no question in Orson’s mind that he had helped to prepare the way for the gathering of the members of the tribe of Judah and the final restoration of their homeland. He had traveled 20,000 miles to fulfill a mission call for his beloved Church, which was probably one of the longest and most hazardous missions undertaken in this dispensation.

(History of Israel & "Palestine")

History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps

Religious Studies Center

1.5. The Scattering and Gathering of Israel: God's Covenant with Abraham Remembered through the Ages | Religious Studies Center

I recently had a post here, entitled "Orson Hyde and the Voice of the Turtledove." Looks at the timing of Orson's mission.

[volgadon]

As for the OP, offenses must come, but wo unto them by whom they come, that sums it up nicely.

[Traveler]

Okay, I get your point (correct me if I'm wrong). The Jewish people have a claim to being Israel because they are Jewish. They required no UN mandate to stake their claim. My question remains: If the LDS church is Israel by way of an act of God, how does God acknowledge or accommodate this other Israel?

If anyone can demonstrate to me that they are the true Israel then perhaps I would immigrate. It seems one or the other Israel must be walking with their shoes on the wrong feet. There is clearly one Israel built in Christ and one Israel built on the denial of Christ. Isn't it for them to come to the knowledge of Christ and join the LDS church?

I find it curious that those in the Middle East are negotiating a two state solution between Jews and Palestinians, while ignoring the true dichotomy of there being two peoples claiming to be Israel. That would be like the LDS church negotiating a Christian annex to their Temples with the Catholics.

Has God become so compromising as to create confusion about what Israel is to be?

There are a number of scriptures - and perhaps we can highlight them that indicate that in the last days there will be two gatherings (two sticks in Ezek 37) that will become one and one nation. We also know about Jerusalem and New Jerusalem from which the world will be governed.

The name Jerusalem has both symbolic and literal meaning. Within the Hebrew there is a reference to the ancient “Salem” which was established after Noah as the covenant of peace. Salem on two mountains or an expanded Salem can be given in Jerusalem.

The ancient covenant of peace as was established after Noah was a restoration of the covenant of Peace that was known of in the days of Enoch. The covenant of Enoch is often called the City of Enoch even though there was more than one city. Thus we see the first mention of “Zion” which can be interpreted as the people under the covenant of Peace.

It is LDS theology that in the last days “Zion” will be established in the geography known as the United States. That Zion, according to prophesy given in Isaiah will be in a place called “The top of the Mountains”. The word Utah in the language of the native American Ute people is “The top of the Mountains”.

The Traveler

[HEthePrimate]

More perplexing is if the establishment of a second Israel separate from Christ’s Israel in the church was indeed the act of God, why than don’t they have peace? Does God and Christ establish hatred or does He establish peace, even as the saints have? ...

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that God does not guarantee peace even to the righteous of his people. The Latter-day Saints certainly didn't have peace for quite a while. That we do now is more an accident of history than a sign of our supposed righteousness. In many cases throughout history, God's servants have been persecuted, tortured, and killed precisely because they were God's servants.

Another question: Why would God not use the U.N. as an instrument in establishing modern Israel?

HEP