Is this fishy?

[Suzanne627]

(Quick background: I converted at age 14. I am the only church member in my family. I fell away at 17, started dating "Mike" at 19. He is not a member. A year later we mover across the country, the month that I was trying to break up with him we found out we were expecting. I started to get active in the church again. I tried to make things work, and here we are 2 years later still "trying to make things work".)

Mikes best friend, Kevin, got married this past weekend. He was the best man and flew to Texas for the wedding (left Friday morning, came back Sunday morning). I didn't ask him to call me and I told him sincerely to have fun. Friday night, after the rehersal, he calls me and says that the groomsmen got together at one of their houses to go over "details". He said that he was only there to support Kevin (groom) and that he would text when he left. He said that he would text so that it wouldn't wake me if I was sleeping. Our daughter is sick and I was up all night. He never texted. I finally texted him at 4 am his time and he did not respond. He called me in the morning and said that he didn't text because he didn't want to wake me.

The wedding was Saturday. At midnight he texted me that he "just got to Kevs house, playing COD" (a video game) and asked if I was awake. I said yes and he instantly called me. When he called he said that he was at Matt's house and that the groomsmen were watching a UFC fight. The bride has issues with the groom playing video games even before the wedding, so I really doubted that she was okay having guests at their house on their WEDDING NIGHT playing video games. Then, within two minutes he says that he wasn't at Kevins and that he wasn't playing video games? It was strange. His story was that he ment to say he was at Kevs friends house, he left out the word "friend". He also said that the bride had wanted girls night and that the bridesmaids and all of the other girls were not there.

Well today I get on facebook and the bride has a status that is thanking Matt for the awesome after party on the night of the wedding.

It's too many little details. He is being deceiving. It really hurts because I wasn't questioning him, he had no reason to lie.

How would you feel? Shoudl I just scratch this relationship, get myself a temple reccomend and wait until a worthy priesthood holder comes my way? As I said, I am struggling to keep this relationship afloat. I was viewing it as too early to call it quits and to early to go to the wedding alter. I am living all other commandments, including the word of wisdom. The bishop knows my situation, that we were co-habitating while I was inactive and have continued doing so since I have returned. He hasn't taken away my sacrament privileges.

It just stinks. I told him that it is his turn to fight for us if he wants us to work. He said that if I am not going to fight for it then we might as well call it quits, but I've been the one fighting for the past 3 years while he keeps letting me down. I think it's his turn to proove if he wants this relationship or not. I am praying, and I have fasted, and I will continue my praying. Thoughts?

[NeuroTypical]

You owe it to your kid to try to make things work. If he won't marry you, at least you should strive for the closest relationship with him that you can get. You are training your daughter how to pick men. You will also train her to stay with or dump men after making a baby with one. Chose your path carefully.

Cheating and drugs and abuse and things are reasons to walk away. Getting upset that your shack-up dood went to a party without telling you, well, it seems like an odd time to start getting upset about that sort of behavior.

Good luck. Do what's best for your kid.

[Backroads]

Now an afterparty is one thing, maybe something to shrug off, but the fact that he lied about it makes me wonder just what this "awesome" thing was.

Make him fight for you. REally, it's not worth it if you can't trust him. You're too young to be struggling for a relationship.

[Suzanne627]

LM- I knew you'd head that route :). He WOULD marry me and he WANTS to marry me. Thinking of my daughter, I do not want her to see how he treats me and think that is okay. I do not want her to see her mother working hard on everything while her father plays video games all day every day and pushes her away from him (physically). I do not want her to see her mother disrespecte and think that is okay. I also want to be sealed to my daughter and he is not someone who will take me to the temple.

How long should I endure and pay for mistakes that I made when my heart was not in the right place?

Backroad- Your thread gives me hope that there are faithful LDS people who are willing to look past someones failed relationship. While I would not jump into the dating scene right away, I do worry that I will not find an LDS man willing to accept my daughter and I . I also realize that it is not fair of me to ask that.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Suzanne627

[Dr T]

Sorry to hear your relationship is going through difficulties right now Suzanne.

[Suzanne627]

Thanks Dr T. I'll be fine, regardless of what happens. I applied for a job this weekend, that sort of stings. I can't stand the idea of my daughter having to go to daycare. She is very social though, and she may like it.

The elders and I talked recently about "bad times" and how we can't see it at the moment but wonderful things come out of them if handled correctly. I also realize that in the scheme of life, this is such a minute issue. I made a mistake, I did not take things seriously, and I have to get back on track.

[slamjet]

Heavenly Father loves moms! I've watched my ex-wife and I can see where he has blessed her beyond what she could have ever imagined. It almost seems like he'll do more for a faithful single mom than anyone else on earth. Stay active and faithful in the church and you will find that amazing things will happen, a lot of questions will be answered and a ton of guidance will come your way. About the best advice is to hang in there and prayerfully seek out what is the right things to do including how to deal with the babies father.

I've seen it first hand.

And because I can, I'll put in my .02

Rarely do men who are deceitful ever come around until they had a 2x4 smacked between their eyes. If he feels the need to be covert about his behavior, then he hasn't gotten the clue about how to be a responsible adult and father. Maybe he'll come around, I very well could be totally off base here. But if you want a relationship with him, you two need to sit down and discuss boundaries (what is acceptable behavior) for the both of you. You need to discuss openness and not keeping secrets. Man, all the times I've seen secrets destroy homes. But boundaries is the first step. That way you both will have a realistic and acceptable level of expectancy. That way if one deviates, depending on how it is handled (i.e., not kept in secret) will show what the level of expectation is for the future.

[Dr T]

That's a good way to look at this situation. Allow God's work in your life. God knows what's up. :)

[Guest]

Suzanne, so sorry you are going through the wringer. This is just my 2 cents...

If you can't trust a guy, then you can't trust a guy. It's not going to magically change later on. If he's playing video games all day and ignoring you, that's not gonna change much either until he grows up (which could be ages from now).

So, really... you got 2 choices - 1.) accept the guy as he is right now. No, oh I hope he will realize he loves me and his daughter dearly so he won't lie to me anymore... No. You know who he is now, accept who he is now. So that, later on, when he says he went to Kevin's house and you find out he actually went to Mike's house you can chalk it up to - yep, that's the guy I chose.

2.) cut your losses and maintain friendship with him as the father of your daughter and nothing else. Don't demonize him though. Let his relationship with your daughter flourish unless he is harmful to your daughter.

Notice I didn't mention about looking for another guy. I believe you should concentrate on being the BEST YOU that you can possibly be and providing the best life for your daughter that you can. Yes, your daughter would benefit from a stable household with a full-time mother and father figure, but the dating stage of any relationship can be very unstable as to leave a bad impression on your daughter as well. So, I suggest to put that in the back burner right now. If it happens then cool, if it doesn't happen, it's cool too.

Hope this makes sense.

[Wingnut]

How would you feel? Shoudl I just scratch this relationship, get myself a temple reccomend and wait until a worthy priesthood holder comes my way?

If scratching this relationship is what it will take for you to get a temple recommend and be able to marry a worthy Priesthood holder, then you should scratch it. But you have to ask yourself which is more important to you.

[Gwen]

i'm not saying you should or shouldn't leave, just want to put a reminder out there. if you leave the troubles don't stop, you simply trade for new ones. ask yourself what kind of missing trust is in the relationship. if you leave you will have even less control over what happens with your daughter while at his house. will she be safe? does he make sound father decisions? your world will need to revolve around her schedule to see her dad. you can't think of it as his schedule or you will never be able to support her in that relationship. your world won't revolve around him but your daughter which will include him. i'm not trying to discourage you from what may be the right path. just proceed realistically. know what you are getting into and plan for it, prepare yourself.

[FunkyTown]

The easiest decisions in the world to make are those based around someone else. You always have to assume that they will always be the person they always were.

Making a decision based upon that isn't the easiest thing to do, but it's what you have to do: The person you fell in love with is the same person he is, now.

What you're going through is common: your tone suggests exasperation. You're feeling frustrated, probably longing for something you can't even really put your finger on, but thinking 'A healthy relationship', 'A loving household' or even just something you feel everyone else has.

You can make the right decision. Just know you aren't alone and, as nerdy and trite as it might sound right now, you're loved by a Heavenly Father who wants what's best for you.

Don't think you're alone. :)

[Suzanne627]

if you leave you will have even less control over what happens with your daughter while at his house.

This is a big fear of mine as well. While he would never intentionally harm her, he tends to take the easy (lazy) way through parenting. An example woudl be when I asked if I could take a shower (without the baby- such a luxury), I came downstairs afterwards and she was crying at the baby gate and had dye all around her mouth. I asked him what it was and he said, "None of your business. She is hungry". So I started making her some turkey and cheese and she started throwing up. Come to find out, he had let her eat an entire package of skittles AND of M&M's. Would that harm her pernamently? No, but it hurt her little belly and didn't fix her hunger.

My mom has this same battle with her ex and her younger children.

[Suzanne627]

Suzanne, so sorry you are going through the wringer. This is just my 2 cents...

If you can't trust a guy, then you can't trust a guy. It's not going to magically change later on. If he's playing video games all day and ignoring you, that's not gonna change much either until he grows up (which could be ages from now).

So, really... you got 2 choices - 1.) accept the guy as he is right now. No, oh I hope he will realize he loves me and his daughter dearly so he won't lie to me anymore... No. You know who he is now, accept who he is now. So that, later on, when he says he went to Kevin's house and you find out he actually went to Mike's house you can chalk it up to - yep, that's the guy I chose.

2.) cut your losses and maintain friendship with him as the father of your daughter and nothing else. Don't demonize him though. Let his relationship with your daughter flourish unless he is harmful to your daughter.

Notice I didn't mention about looking for another guy. I believe you should concentrate on being the BEST YOU that you can possibly be and providing the best life for your daughter that you can. Yes, your daughter would benefit from a stable household with a full-time mother and father figure, but the dating stage of any relationship can be very unstable as to leave a bad impression on your daughter as well. So, I suggest to put that in the back burner right now. If it happens then cool, if it doesn't happen, it's cool too.

Hope this makes sense.

Yes, it all makes sense. Tatum is and will continue to be my top priority. Eventually I want to be sealed to her in the temple, but I am hoping that I have a long time for that. Dating is NOT my priority and I only really think of it when I think that it's going to be a long time until anyone else comes around.

[Guest]

This is a big fear of mine as well. While he would never intentionally harm her, he tends to take the easy (lazy) way through parenting. An example woudl be when I asked if I could take a shower (without the baby- such a luxury), I came downstairs afterwards and she was crying at the baby gate and had dye all around her mouth. I asked him what it was and he said, "None of your business. She is hungry". So I started making her some turkey and cheese and she started throwing up. Come to find out, he had let her eat an entire package of skittles AND of M&M's. Would that harm her pernamently? No, but it hurt her little belly and didn't fix her hunger.

My mom has this same battle with her ex and her younger children.

Hah! That's nothing! My husband has done worse than that. But, that didn't stop him from being a good father. He just has a different idea of what being a good father entails.

I had a 6-year-old that went through surgery in his elbow after flying off the swing. Daddy told him to go as high as he can... and of course, my son jumped thinking it's so much fun flying off the swing. Daddy thought it was cool until he shattered his elbow.

But I look at my sons and my husband and you cannot deny the love and devotion they have for each other.

There's one comedy skit Cosby did a while ago where his wife told him to fix breakfast. So he went to the kitchen. He asked the kids, "What do you want for breakfast?". One kid said, I want chocolate cake. Cosby thought, hmm... chocolate cake is made out of flour, eggs, milk, and chocolate - that's the same as toast, scrambled eggs, and chocolate milk. "Sure baby!".

What I'm trying to say is - everybody has a different idea of what being a good parent is. It's not something you can really pinpoint to a - this incident and that incident thing - it's in the heart of the person. You know him best. Look at him as a whole - what's in his heart - to determine if he is a good father or not. This is the same thing you want to do to determine if he is a good husband or not. There is good and bad in every person - decide now what you can and can't accept of his bad side. If there are things you cannot accept, then this is not the road you can take. Just make sure you understand that the next guy who comes along would also come in a good and bad package - so you'll have to go through the same exercise - is this something I can or can't accept.

Love is not just a feeling. It's a decision.

[Wingnut]

There's one comedy skit Cosby did a while ago where his wife told him to fix breakfast. So he went to the kitchen. He asked the kids, "What do you want for breakfast?". One kid said, I want chocolate cake. Cosby thought, hmm... chocolate cake is made out of flour, eggs, milk, and chocolate - that's the same as toast, scrambled eggs, and chocolate milk. "Sure baby!".

Quite a while ago: YouTube - Bill Cosby - Dad is Great brings me Chocolate Cake

[Backroads]

I guess I have trouble believing the party was innocent. Otherwise, why lie about it?

If you worry about power over your daughter while at your house, there are non-profit legals out there who work only in the child's best interest.

[Guest finesseindia]

Finesse is a manufacturers, suppliers & exporters of Wedding Gowns, Veils, Wedding Dresses, embroidery material, Applique and Brooch and Haute Couture in India.

[Bini]

If scratching this relationship is what it will take for you to get a temple recommend and be able to marry a worthy Priesthood holder, then you should scratch it. But you have to ask yourself which is more important to you.

THIS, should be deeply contemplated methinks. Really, it is the best advice on this thread.

[ryanh]

Suzanne, as I've gone through my experiences of a failed 14 year marriage, and heard many stories over the last year from women whose marriages failed, I do keep coming back to the idea that something is "fishy".

Your SO isn't here to present his side, and I do try to think about the whole situation objectively realizing I only have one side of the story. But, even so, do it does seem your suspicions are valid. It does seem you seeing true red flags, and I do think you need to heed them. I wouldn't presume they mean 'run away' from your SO, but in my way of thinking, they do mean 'stop, and don't go forward without complete resolution of the red flags'.

I've just hear too many women lament after the divorce about how they hope they never get so emotionally invested in a relationship again that they choose to ignore red flags. Mistrust, stories, not putting in requisite effort to build a relationship, etc, etc all seem like poor starts for a marriage. In regards to your situation, my mind just keeps coming back with thoughts of 'it won't work'. You can try, but if the warning signs are already there, the answer you need about whether or not a successful marriage is possible is right before you.

And re your daughter . . . in divorce education classes in UT, they make it very clear that studies show that children are better off and have much healthier lives coming from a divorced (or separated in your case) family than to grow up in a home where there is an unhappy marriage. I don't agree with the idea that "You are training your daughter how to pick men. You will also train her to stay with or dump men after making a baby with one." is a valid reason to stay. Rather, in my mind, it is a reason to leave and show her how to make a right choice. That the right man to marry is not one that doesn't fight for a relationship, etc. Show her how to make that right choice. Show her that a true relationship is a reciprocal partnership, not just the woman leading and pushing the man along.

[rameumptom]

You have to decide how deceptive he is being. The reality is for your own spirituality, you need to decide to marry or cut him loose.

Does he treat you well? Is he considerate? Does he make you feel like a million bucks? Is he normally responsible and reliable? If so, then marry him.

Is he verbally or physically abusive? Does he drink too much or use drugs? Does he neglect you and your daughter, while partying with his friends? If so, then cut this one loose, get yourself spiritually back together, and allow God to prepare you for a future with a righteous man.

Sadly, many men are pigs. These have the attitude of: why buy the cow, if the milk is free? If what you are saying is true, then he is using you for his own gain. If he is not willing to improve the relationship, then there really isn't a relationship beyond sex and having a daughter together. You don't need to raise a daughter in that kind of neglectful environment, which would only set her up to make the same bad choices later in life herself.

BTW, my wife had 3 kids when I married her. They are all grown now, but consider me their Dad, asking me counsel and advice often, etc. They have their struggles, many of which came about because of the ex-husband. But they are active in Church, and raising their own kids in love. They are doing much better than if my wife had stayed with him and his abuse.

[Backroads]

And re your daughter . . . in divorce education classes in UT, they make it very clear that studies show that children are better off and have much healthier lives coming from a divorced (or separated in your case) family than to grow up in a home where there is an unhappy marriage. I don't agree with the idea that "You are training your daughter how to pick men. You will also train her to stay with or dump men after making a baby with one." is a valid reason to stay. Rather, in my mind, it is a reason to leave and show her how to make a right choice. That the right man to marry is not one that doesn't fight for a relationship, etc. Show her how to make that right choice. Show her that a true relationship is a reciprocal partnership, not just the woman leading and pushing the man along.

Very true. A happy and healthy divorced relationship is infinitely better than an unhappy, unhealthy marriage. Staying together for the kids is a bad idea. Kids can tell. It's best they know mommy and daddy both love them very much and separate so bad feelings aren't all over the place.

[Gwen]

however an unhealthy and unhappy divorced relationship can be just as bad if not worse for a child's development. don't think they won't learn to lie and manipulate at a very young age.

[Guest]

This is an unpopular principle, I know. But, this is what I believe.

I've sworn to myself - before I even considered marriage - that if I get divorced (it's not always under my control), I will not remarry.

The lesson I want to teach my kids is that marriage is not disposable. It's not like a refrigerator - if it gets broken, you can go buy another one.

I learned this lesson from my grandmother. Her husband died in World War II when my mother was only 3 years old. She never remarried even during those times in the Philippines when women cannot own property and have a hard time finding jobs. My mother learned from that lesson as well and my mom and dad is pretty much it. They've been through very rough times (they got separated for a spell) but they somehow managed to stick together... they just celebrated their 45th anniversary. By the way, that's why my father was completely against my marriage (I mentioned in another thread) - because I married an American. Americans have no problem getting divorced. Filipinos are less likely to get divorced - it's illegal in the Philippines.

I've held this principle when choosing the person to marry. Therefore, I was very careful. My husband is IT.

It's just the way I look at things, folks.

I would love to see statistics on how many divorced homes produce kids who end up divorced versus how many stable homes produce kids who end up with stable homes.

Edited December 16, 2010 by anatess

[ryanh]

I would love to see statistics on how many divorced homes produce kids who end up divorced versus how many stable homes produce kids who end up with stable homes.

And I would like to see statistics on how many kids from bad/abusive marriages end up repeating that abuse cycle as compared to those who live in stable marriages. There are two sides to every coin. Looking only at the divorce leading to divorce side gives a skewed perception.