Are we really "the scum of the earth"?

[lumberjacksdaughter]

No, I'm not talking about what non-Mormons think of us. I'm talking about what we say about ourselves.

I was just at an older single adults family home evening. The seven of us were sitting around the dining room table after the potluck reading scriptures. The theme was we are nobody. We are no better than the dirt on the ground. My theory is that if we believe we are nobodies then we will behave like nobodies. Right now I assume the Lord needs champions, not nobodies.

I understand that we should not be arrogant or judgemental of any other humans on the planet, no matter what their behavior or situation. I know we should not be boastful (seems like the other folks around the table were puffed up, boasting about how sincerly humble they are).

I know that God created this world and everything on it and that we should acknowledge this and be full of gratitude for all our blessings all the time. Guess I just don't like being told that I am flotsam. That I own nothing and am nothing.

I am a child of God. I am unique. I have unlimited potential. I am somebody.

[ryanh]

Both perspectives are important. They are not an either or when framed correctly. Yes, we have divine potential, and are precious in our Father's sight, but we also must remain humble and recognize that we are utterly dependent upon Him for all we have, and any potential to progress. The proper perspective is not that we are "scum", but that we recognize that we are nothing by ourselves.

One of the facets of the Gospel that contributes to my understanding of its divinity and truth is that is can guide all personality types. There are teachings that lift the downtrodden and self-loathing individuals. There are teachings that debase the proud. It is not an ala carte Gospel, where we choose the angle we like, however, there is an element of recognizing which admonitions are directed towards our particular circumstances. Some need to be reminded of their nothingness. Others - no so much - they need reminding of how special they are.

Follow the Spirit's promptings when internalizing one admonition or the other. I have observed a few circumstances where the adversary likes to use one message or the other to lead astray. He will tell the meek and abased that they are "scum", and drag them down to depression. He will try to tell the proud that they are already noble, and puff them up into an unrighteous frame of mind. Seek the Spirit's influence in determining what you still lack, and He will lead you into leaving behind the natural man (whether that is the depressed or the proud).

[NeuroTypical]

It's important to be humble. It's dumb to sit there and talk about how worthless you are.

[mapman]

Moses 1 actually talks a lot about this. Moses realizes that he is no more than the dust of the earth, except for the relationship with God he was in. Satan came to Moses trying to weaken him by calling him son of man. Moses saw that Satan had no glory and knew he was a son of God.

[MrShorty]

I think an important thing to understand is why the comparison to dust is made. My favorite description is from Hel. 12:7-9. In verse 8, we read that the reason dust is so wonderful is because it is obedient to God's commands. People, on the other hand, are quick to do iniquity and slow to remember (let alone obey) the Lord their God. I'm summarizing, Mormon used about all of chapt. 12 to describe how quick people are to do iniquity. This comparison to dust has nothing to do with the worth of my soul. The fact that Christ would suffer for my sins is a better measure of the worth of my soul. The comparison to dust is a reminder to me that I should aspire to be obedient.

[lumberjacksdaughter]

I guess I just have my nose out of joint (not offended - please don't throw a tyrade back at me about the idiocy of being offended) because they were talking about giving money to beggars that have signs saying "hungry" (I've handed out money many times to such people). I suggested always having a lunch sack with non parishable, nutritous food plus a drink prepared in the car to be ready to hand it out the window to such people in need, instead of money. Their instant reply to my suggestion was that those persons asking for help would more than likely just throw the food away, that it was not food that they actually wanted in the first place and that we should give them cash only and it is for them to decide what to do with it (food, liquor, drugs?). It was my first get together with the group and I had hoped that my suggestion would be met with approval.

Edited December 17, 2010 by lumberjacksdaughter

[Blackmarch]

No, I'm not talking about what non-Mormons think of us. I'm talking about what we say about ourselves.

I was just at an older single adults family home evening. The seven of us were sitting around the dining room table after the potluck reading scriptures. The theme was we are nobody. We are no better than the dirt on the ground. My theory is that if we believe we are nobodies then we will behave like nobodies. Right now I assume the Lord needs champions, not nobodies.

I understand that we should not be arrogant or judgemental of any other humans on the planet, no matter what their behavior or situation. I know we should not be boastful (seems like the other folks around the table were puffed up, boasting about how sincerly humble they are).

I know that God created this world and everything on it and that we should acknowledge this and be full of gratitude for all our blessings all the time. Guess I just don't like being told that I am flotsam. That I own nothing and am nothing.

I am a child of God. I am unique. I have unlimited potential. I am somebody.

I really wish people would understand things... in the scriptures when they is some sort of statement along those lines it's comparing us to God. Compared to God right now we are virtually nothing, does that mean we literally are nothing (less than dirt, dirty rags, etc..)? Does it mean that we are something to be scorned, considered as the plague?

No! we are obviously worth something, something enough to cause a God to come down and to suffer all pain and anguish that we may become something more. But not only that he's given us all these things in this world to enjoy and use or to abuse.

ultimately the only thing we own is the thing that will condemn us or allow us to be saved, it was the thing in which wars in heaven and on earth have been fought over- our wills.

You have no idea how much sometimes I want to knock peoples heads on that, who get into the rut that for some reason or another that humanity is a plague and/or a curse.... which is quite different from being relatively insignificant when compared to certain things.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Backroads]

I suggested always having a lunch sack with non parishable, nutritous food plus a drink prepared in the car to be ready to hand it out the window to such people in need, instead of money. Their instant reply to my suggestion was that those persons asking for help would more than likely just throw the food away, that it was not food that they actually wanted in the first place and that we should give them cash only and it is for them to decide what to do with it (food, liquor, drugs?). It was my first get together with the group and I had hoped that my suggestion would be met with approval.

I guess my opinion on that is that it doesn't matter what they do with it. If it's something you choose to do, it's good for your soul no matter what the receiver chooses to do. Charity is like forgiviness: it's more about you than the other person.

[lumberjacksdaughter]

I didn't say that I cared what those people did with my money the times I gave to people on the street who were asking for help. I said that it would be great to have a "care" package available in the car to hand out. Especially if the driver of a car passing by happened to be low on cash that day. Dang. "You people" are hard to please. It was actually my 31 year old daughter's idea. I will have to get back with her and inform her that it is "cash only" when people are in need. Who knew? And while I'm at it, I will notify the food banks about this policy also! If you can't give cash, then don't bother. And the Bishop's Storehouse. I should notify them. Just give the people MONEY. It's up to them whether they buy essentials for for their family or not with it.

Edited December 17, 2010 by lumberjacksdaughter

[Backroads]

I didn't say that I cared what those people did with my money the times I gave to people on the street who were asking for help. I said that it would be great to have a "care" package available in the car to hand out. Especially if the driver of a car passing by happened to be low on cash that day. Dang. "You people" are hard to please. It was actually my 31 year old daughter's idea. I will have to get back with her and inform her that it is "cash only" when people are in need. Who knew? And while I'm at it, I will notify the food banks about this policy also! If you can't give cash, then don't bother. And the Bishop's Storehouse. I should notify them. Just give the people MONEY. It's up to them whether they buy essentials for for their family or not with it.

"You people"?

[lumberjacksdaughter]

"You people"?

You know... Everyone who isn't me.

[Backroads]

But seriously, can I ask what I said that made you bite my head off? It was a little uncalled for.

[lumberjacksdaughter]

I didn't know I was biting anyone's head off in particular. Sorry that you felt personally assaulted.

[captmoroniRM]

Are we scum of the earth? I don't think so. I have heard from reliable source that we are the salt of the earth.

[JohnnyRudick]

. . .I know we should not be boastful (seems like the other folks around the table were puffed up, boasting about how sincerly humble they are).

I am a child of God. I am unique. I have unlimited potential. I am somebody.

Seems I am seeing this more and more.

Thank You for pointing this out:)

[JohnnyRudick]

"You people"?

Sometimes I wonder where the other person is standing when

they decide to throw that at people I am with.

I guess there is no chance of it hitting them back.

[HEthePrimate]

We are indeed "less than the dust of the earth." We are also children of God. Joseph Smith said, "By proving contraries, truth is made manifest." Working with paradox appears to be a useful way of learning gospel truths. Think of the grace/works paradox, as well as justice/mercy.

[beefche]

I didn't say that I cared what those people did with my money the times I gave to people on the street who were asking for help. I said that it would be great to have a "care" package available in the car to hand out. Especially if the driver of a car passing by happened to be low on cash that day. Dang. "You people" are hard to please. It was actually my 31 year old daughter's idea. I will have to get back with her and inform her that it is "cash only" when people are in need. Who knew? And while I'm at it, I will notify the food banks about this policy also! If you can't give cash, then don't bother. And the Bishop's Storehouse. I should notify them. Just give the people MONEY. It's up to them whether they buy essentials for for their family or not with it.

I'm a little confused. You were at a single adult thing, the discussion was about people who beg, the majority of the people there said one should give money to the beggers, you said to give money or a food bag, and they disagreed with you. So, now you are upset they didn't agree with you. Is that a good summary?

First, who cares if they agree with you? It's your donation! If you want to give clothes to the person, that is your right. If you think giving food is a better solution, then do so. Why do you care that they didn't approve your suggestion?

The Lord wants us to feed and clothe those who are less fortunate. How we do so as individuals is what is more important than group-think.

[tefor]

ONCE in a saintly passion

I cried with desperate grief,

"O Lord, my heart is black with guile,

Of sinners I am chief."

Then stooped my guardian angel

And whispered from behind,

"Vanity, my little man,

You're nothing of the kind."

--James Thomson

It takes a twisted form of pride for any of us to boast that we are worse than others.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I think the "you are nothing" philosophy is there to move the arrogant toward greater humility.

[rameumptom]

We are nothing when compared to the expansiveness of the universe. Yet we are magnificent because of our unique and special relationship with God. Without Him, we would not have existence nor the ability to learn/think/grow/progress.

Or as Rameumptom's Corollary on Socrates states: "I know nothing, but I still know more than you!"

[Backroads]

I didn't know I was biting anyone's head off in particular. Sorry that you felt personally assaulted.

Heck, maybe I needed a chill pill! Peace?

[Backroads]

Is there anything wrong, essentially, with thinking you are nothing?

I actually feel best when I'm staring out into the stars or the ocean or the forest and relishing in how little and insignificant me and my problems are in the grand scheme of things.

Now is this an excuse to have low self-confidence? No, God doesn't want that, either?

Jodi Foster had a fabulous line on Contact. "that tells us, undeniably, how tiny, and insignificant and how... rare, and precious we all are! A vision that tells us that we belong to something that is greater then ourselves, that we are *not*, that none of us are alone!"

[slamjet]

I'm dubious of anyone saying that we are the "scum of the earth" and that we are the "most evil of Gods creation." It really smacks of what President Benson said "There is, however, a far more common ailment among us—and that is pride from the bottom looking up. "

To me, this is an irrelevant way to look at things. If we really thought about it, God is so much more involved in our lives individually and as a human family than we realize. Would he do that to a people, or a person labeled as "scum?" Regardless of the labels we use, we are still precious in his sight. So let's just jettison the "scum" label and shoot for the "Christlike" label.

[JohnnyRudick]

Is there anything wrong, essentially, with thinking you are nothing?

I actually feel best when I'm staring out into the stars or the ocean or the forest and relishing in how little and insignificant me and my problems are in the grand scheme of things.

Now is this an excuse to have low self-confidence? No, God doesn't want that, either?

Jodi Foster had a fabulous line on Contact. "that tells us, undeniably, how tiny, and insignificant and how... rare, and precious we all are! A vision that tells us that we belong to something that is greater then ourselves, that we are *not*, that none of us are alone!"

When I am walking through the forest at night and feel the dark all around me

and I look up through the tops of the trees and see the stars peeping through

at me I feel like I am a part of all the glory around me.

Is there anything wrong with that?