Suspending Visas for LDS missionaries to Mexico?

[pam]

Group wants Mexico to suspend visas for LDS missionaries - ksl.com

A small group of Latino Utah residents wants the president of Mexico to suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes a stronger stand on the immigration issue.

I think the Church has already made their position quite clear on this as is mentioned in the article. This is from the link provided:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued the following statement of support today following the announcement of the Utah Compact, a document backed by a broad spectrum of community leaders:

As a worldwide church dealing with many complex issues across the globe, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints promotes broad, foundational principles that have worldwide application. The Church regards the declaration of the Utah Compact as a responsible approach to the urgent challenge of immigration reform. It is consistent with important principles for which we stand:

• We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that the meaning of “neighbor” includes all of God’s children, in all places, at all times.
• We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families and damages society.
• We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nation’s laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them.

Public officials should create and administer laws that reflect the best of our aspirations as a just and caring society. Such laws will properly balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the observance of just and enforceable laws.

[Jenamarie]

Ya, that'll work.

[mightynancy]

and the observance of just and enforceable laws.

Enforceable is a pretty easy call - just is much more debatable.

I do admire the Church's stance on immigration; it avoids the "us and them" mentality that so often drives immigration policy/philosophy. :)

[Dravin]

A small group of Latino Utah residents wants the president of Mexico to suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes a stronger stand on the immigration issue.

Okay the petty and contrarian part of me wants the Church to sagely nod "Okay, we'll take a stonger stance." And then come out in rabid support for legislation contrary to what the group wants.

[pam]

This is a tough topic for me. Mainly because my opinion is opposite of what so many others have.

[Hartman]

Okay the petty and contrarian part of me wants the Church to sagely nod "Okay, we'll take a stonger stance." And then come out in rabid support for legislation contrary to what the group wants.

Effective 9-24-09 political discussion has been suspended. Any threads of this nature will be closed.

Political discussion doesn't really bother me, but I hear that Pam is kind of a stickler on this.

[pam]

This thread that I started was not so much about the politics, but the attempt to stop LDS missionaries from the US from serving missions in Mexico. But no matter what happens...the work will still go on.

[Dravin]

Effective 9-24-09 political discussion has been suspended. Any threads of this nature will be closed.

Political discussion doesn't really bother me, but I hear that Pam is kind of a stickler on this.

Good thing I wasn't talking politics but simply being an ornery cuss.

[Gwen]

it may be the wrong approach but i say good for them. at least someone is saying something. the church has proved it can and will change social policy when it suits them. the church has turned a blind eye to illegal immigration for a long time. they ignore bishops that encourage and help illegal immigrants be here. i was fussing about this very recently actually. why can't the church get involved? there are a lot of church members that are affected by the immigration laws, a lot more members live with this concern than there are members living with other issues they have been very vocal about. in my opinion this is much closer to home, has a greater impact on the church, has a massive impact on society and it's foolish to ignore it.

[Iggy]

Even if Mexico won't allow LDS Missionaries in, there are more than enough LDS in Mexico to draw from so that there will still be Missionaries IN Mexico. There are 13! There are over 1500 meetinghouses in Mexico.

Gwen, I agree with you. Those members, Missionaries, Missionary Presidents, Bishops, Stake Presidents who allow baptism to illegal immigrants here on USA soil, are NOT following Church Doctrines or Policy.

To Whit:Articles of Fatih 12We believe in being asubject to bkings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the dlaw. [bolding done by me.]

Now if they helped those same illegals get legal status as soon as they step on USA soil, then no they are not breaking the law.

[ADoyle90815]

In a way, it's safer to have Mexican citizens serve missions in Mexico, especially in the border areas because of the drug cartel violence.

[mightynancy]

I don't think drug violence discriminates between Mexican and non-Mexican.

[Dravin]

I don't think drug violence discriminates between Mexican and non-Mexican.

Depends how one defines drug violence I suppose. Cartel shoot outs I imagine don't care, but I could see someone looking for money for a fix assuming that the Americans or Europeans have more money than his fellow countryman. Though that would apply to any muggings and the like regardless of what they wanted the money for.

Thing is I imagine if that was such a large threat they'd probably pull missionaries out regardless of national origin.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Dravin

[pam]

So much more is happening in the border cities. That's why Americans are being warned not to go down into Tijuana due to all the violence currently going on there because of the drug wars. Juarez is another city.

[Just_A_Guy]

If I counted correctly, there are currently 19 missions in Mexico. If each of those missions has 100 Americans, that's 1900 Americans in the country. Each of them disburses somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 per month.

So, Mormon missionary work pumps $760,000 into the Mexican economy per month, or somewhere on the order of $9 million annually.

To paraphrase Mr. Knightley in Emma: The Mexican government may speak nationalistically; but they will act rationally. The LDS missionaries aren't going anywhere.

[Iggy]

If I counted correctly, there are currently 19 missions in Mexico. If each of those missions has 100 Americans, that's 1900 Americans in the country. Each of them disburses somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 per month.

So, Mormon missionary work pumps $760,000 into the Mexican economy per month, or somewhere on the order of $9 million annually.

To paraphrase Mr. Knightley in Emma: The Mexican government may speak nationalistically; but they will act rationally. The LDS missionaries aren't going anywhere.

The cost of living is much lower in Mexico. I checked out Craig's List for apartment rentals in Mexico City. The lowest was $650 pesos which is $49.37 USD. Or you could purchase a one bedroom luxury apartment for $30,000 ( $2,481.26 USD which =206.78 a month.) This price also includes maintenance, and it is fully furnished and equipped.

[Gwen]

Gwen, I agree with you. Those members, Missionaries, Missionary Presidents, Bishops, Stake Presidents who allow baptism to illegal immigrants here on USA soil, are NOT following Church Doctrines or Policy.

Now if they helped those same illegals get legal status as soon as they step on USA soil, then no they are not breaking the law.

the problem is the church may say it's against policy but they know it happens and they do nothing. it's one of the many "unwritten rules". at least i've never heard of anything being done about it. it's a don't ask don't tell kind of thing.

there are very few ways to get legal status from within the US. most of the processes for mexicians to gain legal status take a very long time (15 yrs in some cases). many that are coming here want to provide a better life for their children, by the time they do things "the right way" their kids are grown. they risk everything at the prospect that their children will have a chance at a better life.

boarder cities may be a different picture than i see. not every illegal is a drug dealer but trying to get away from them.

[Gwen]

If I counted correctly, there are currently 19 missions in Mexico. If each of those missions has 100 Americans, that's 1900 Americans in the country. Each of them disburses somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 per month.

So, Mormon missionary work pumps $760,000 into the Mexican economy per month, or somewhere on the order of $9 million annually.

To paraphrase Mr. Knightley in Emma: The Mexican government may speak nationalistically; but they will act rationally. The LDS missionaries aren't going anywhere.

The cost of living is much lower in Mexico. I checked out Craig's List for apartment rentals in Mexico City. The lowest was $650 pesos which is $49.37 USD. Or you could purchase a one bedroom luxury apartment for $30,000 ( $2,481.26 USD which =206.78 a month.) This price also includes maintenance, and it is fully furnished and equipped.

this is part of why mexico will do nothing to prevent ppl from crossing the boarder. mexicans have a very strong family ethic. when one comes they will bring as many as they can with them, the ones they can't bring they will send money to. a mexican here working at minimum wadge is rich over there, if they send even half of that home it's good for their economy. most mexicans i know take the jobs americans think they are to good for, construction, septic/plumbing jobs, landscaping, factory line work, etc. it's hard nasty work. but it usually pays more than minimum wadge. sometimes as much as $15 an hour. if they are wiring that money home that's good for the mexican economy. they want an open boarder.

[Traveler]

Who to blame? Let’s blame the LDS church for immigration problems. If the church leaders would ever do something positive this problem would just go away. Sometimes I am amazed how naïve people can be.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Some thoughts:

1. A baby sitter in the USA makes more than a doctor in Mexico.

2. Mexico has the greatest store of natural reasources of any nation on earth. Some of the best farm land, the most productive mining and some of the world's largest known oil reserves.

Mexicans are willing to work - why is Mexico a third world nation?

The Traveler

[Gwen]

Who to blame? Let’s blame the LDS church for immigration problems. If the church leaders would ever do something positive this problem would just go away. Sometimes I am amazed how naïve people can be.

The Traveler

i don't think anyone is blaming the church. what is being said is the church has the power to assist in solving the problem (or ignore facts and contribute to it).

i also don't think our government really wants to solve the problem. all these workers are being taxed. for fear of being found out they don't file returns to get that money back even though many of them could do so. all that is "free" money. it's not a problem if you are the one gaining from it.

[Gwen]

Some thoughts:

1. A baby sitter in the USA makes more than a doctor in Mexico.

2. Mexico has the greatest store of natural reasources of any nation on earth. Some of the best farm land, the most productive mining and some of the world's largest known oil reserves.

Mexicans are willing to work - why is Mexico a third world nation?

The Traveler

freedom to be allowed to progress. just because it's a blessed land does not mean it's a blessed government.

[Guest]

i don't think anyone is blaming the church. what is being said is the church has the power to assist in solving the problem (or ignore facts and contribute to it).

i also don't think our government really wants to solve the problem. all these workers are being taxed. for fear of being found out they don't file returns to get that money back even though many of them could do so. all that is "free" money. it's not a problem if you are the one gaining from it.

No. Not "all" these workers are being taxed on their income. Only the businesses who do not know they are hiring illegal workers are taxing these guys.

A lot of these guys are hired by businesses who know they are illegal and hire them anyway - by paying them under the table. Otherwise, they are at risk of getting found out that they are hiring undocumented workers.

There is a reason they are called undocumented workers - that is because they don't have any documentation that identifies them as workers - tax forms included.

Yes, they do pay consumption taxes (sales tax and the like) - but when we're talking about Mexicans (and Filipinos for that matter) - a lot of them send a good portion of their money back to their families in Mexico/Philippines.

[Gwen]

you are correct. "all" was the wrong word. "many" would have been more correct. some are working under false documentation of someone that is legal. so they are being taxed.

our government ignores the facts as well. if they wanted to solve the problem quickly and fairly they could. no massive (expensive) effort required. but they don't. small changes to systems already in place could go a long way to making a difference. for example if a child is born in the states then they can get access to medicaid and such. there is no proof that the parents are here legally required in that process. so change that process by a small measure working with the ppl that come to you one at a time.

[USAPatriot]

Lawmakers pushing immigration bills receive threats By David Montero

The Salt Lake Tribune

First published Feb 14 2011 07:11PM

Updated Feb 15, 2011 06:26AM

Two state lawmakers running immigration reform bills were e-mailed perceived death threats over the weekend and Utah Highway Patrol authorities confirmed Monday they are investigating the matter and taking it “very seriously.”

Reps. Stephen Sandstrom, R-Orem, and Chris Herrod, R-Provo, were the only two state lawmakers to receive the one-and-a-half page letter, confirmed top state law enforcement officials, who said they were too early in the investigation to determine the severity of the threat.

Utah Public Safety Commissioner Lance Davenport, who oversees the UHP, said in the wake of the attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., in Tucson, as well as “living in a post-9/11 world,” even veiled language needed to be scrutinized.

“We don’t want to overreact, but at the same time, we don’t want to risk not taking it seriously,” Davenport said. “Because the world we live in now is the way it is, we want to do the right thing and protect our legislators.”

Sandstrom, who authored HB70, the enforcement-only bill that has been decried by some critics as racist, said the letter “freaked out” his wife. However, he said it was possible that whoever wrote the letter “may have not been thinking about what they were doing.” But after his SUV was egged this weekend and his daughter’s car had tomatoes thrown at it, he decided to alert law enforcement.

The letter is signed the “United Front for Defense of Immigrants” and features the images of Che Guevara and, separately, a semiautomatic weapon with a banana clip. It isn’t directly addressed to Sandstrom or Herrod.

Instead, it is headed with the words, “In response to HB-70 (Communique III-2/11/11)” and references Arizona — the home of the nation’s first enforcement-only law that became the epicenter of the immigration debate.

The letter says: “ A comprehensive immigration reform has never and will never be established in Utah through peaceful dialogs [sic], civil discourse, or the Mormon Church involvement. It will be established as any other revolutionary changes always have been ... by pen and gun, by word and bullet, by tongue and teeth.”

Lawmakers pushing immigration bills receive threats | The Salt Lake Tribune