Children And Sacrament

[miztrniceguy]

My wife and I are struggling. We know children don't need the sacrament, as they are innocent until the age of accountability.

The problem: my wife doesn't want our almost 3 yr old to partake since she doesn't need it. I agree, but it is getting to be a struggle keeping her out of the trays as they are passed. My problem....I am afraid that my daughter will feel excluded as she sees all the other kids her age partaking. I am afraid she will think she is being punished, as she is too young to understand she doesn't need it.

any suggestions?

[Palerider]

I encourage all Parents with small children to give their children the Sacrament.....its a teaching opportunity......even at the age of 3yrs.......

[Josh M]

I would have to agree with Palerider even tho i dont have kids.

[BenRaines]

I agree with Palerider. You are teaching and can use the partaking of the sacrament as a teaching experience. We partake of the sacrament to always remember the Lord. To remind us to keep his commandments.

To me thinking that they don't need to partake of the sacrament would be like saying they do not need to attend church until 8 after they are baptized.

Ben

[Josie]

I remember years ago, when we had jr Sunday School, the children being given Sacrament in there. All of the children regardless of age. If we don't teach a child from the time they are small what they should do, they will not want to when they are older. They need the opportunity to partake, not because they need it, but to teach them, not only that they should take it, but what it is for. We teach the children about the sacrament in primary, even the very young ones. Why would Heavenly Father have us teach the children about something he did not want them to do. We teach the children about being very reverent during sacrament and taking this time to remember Jesus and what he did for them.

Maybe you could have a family home evening dedicated to teaching her about the sacrament and that you think she is now old enough to partake of it and remember what it is for and make it a special thing for her. Let her feel like this is something very special and important to her. <Just a thought>

[ALatterDaySaint]

What I get annoyed with are those that try to force their 4 year olds to take the sacrement. You know the ones, the sacrement is going so smoothy, so revrently and actually quietly...then that parent two rows up and 9 people over starts trying to force-feed the bread down their 3 or 4 year old's throat...then the kid gets mad and starts screaming...the parent refuses to stop and wont pass the tray until the kid is either choking on bread or a minimum of 2 min has passed. Then they sit there with a screaming kid for the remainder of the passing instead of taking them out into the hall.

If you want to teach your child, thats GREAT but dont drive away the spirit from the rest of us for the sake of feeding your child some bread that they litterally do not need to take yet. Practice at home a few times if your kid is prone to freaking out. That would be awsome if some parents did that.

[miztrniceguy]

thank you all for your input. i will share these thoughts with my wife

[Guest Monica]

Yes, its great to allow children to partake of sacrament if they wish to.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

However, if they dont want to participate, let them be. They arent understanding the full meaning of it yet.

[kymmy]

no need to partake

but it is not wrong to partake

under 8 innocent

[prisonchaplain]

thank you all for your input. i will share these thoughts with my wife

I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the Sacrament is similar to the Lord's Supper (Holy Communion). If so, I'm a bit surprised at all the "Go ahead, they'll learn from it," approach. My tradition treats the elements as symbolic, and we're hardly a "high church" movement. Nevertheless, the ceremony is one of very few sacrements we have. There are biblical warnings about not partaking in a casual or unworthy manner--that some have become sick or even fallen asleep (a euphemism, me thinks) for doing so. If I'm not mistaken, we generally would not encourage children who have not been baptized to participate. They can learn by watching, and approach it when they are old enough to understand and willfully join in. Just my humble opinion, though.

[Dr T]

Hello Miztrniceguy. Nice to meet you :)

You said,

We know children don't need the sacrament

What does it mean to "need the sacrament"?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[ALatterDaySaint]

I agree with PrisionChap. I think its silly to watch parents snag an extra piece of bread and put it into some kids mouth who is not only not old enough but facing the opposite direction, using the pew as a table for which he is coloring in his Elmo coloring book. All the kid is learning is "when I color in this book I get bread shoved in my face". What I do like to see are the kids that are almost old enough to be baptized get so excited about it that they want to start "practicing". I dont think its going to effect their eternal progression to take the sacrement early but lets be at least logical and wait until the child asks for it before we just start force feeding them a holy emblem.

I look at it this way, Marriage is also sacred and holy, and we prepare for it by dating. We have an age minimum in our church of 16. Now, would it make sense to send out the younger than 16 year old kids out on dates or take them on dates with us so that they "can learn" how to date? How rediculous! I think it holds true to the sacrement also.

And to answer PrisionChap's question of is Sacrement like The Lord's Supper the answer is its exactley the same. We partake of it weekly instead of at say, just Easter. But unlike the Catholics we feed ourself and the priests dont feed it to us.

[shanstress70]

Then they sit there with a screaming kid for the remainder of the passing instead of taking them out into the hall.

This is a bit off-topic, but I was always bothered by the fact that I was constantly bothering someone when I was attending LDS sacrament mtg. When my child (notably between 12 and 18 months) would start being loud, as most kids do at that age, I would take him out in the foyer. The times I didn't, I got horrible looks. However, my MIL and others would give me crap bc "He will learn that all he has to do is be loud and act up, and then he won't have to sit there. He can go out in the hall." I felt like I could never win.

IMO, if you attend a church that doesn't have a nursery, you need to expect some moises and interruptions from children... it's just their nature. And do you really think Jesus would be annoyed by children making noise? No, I'm pretty sure he's look back at them and smile.

[prisonchaplain]

When my child (notably between 12 and 18 months) would start being loud, as most kids do at that age, I would take him out in the foyer. The times I didn't, I got horrible looks. However, my MIL and others would give me crap bc "He will learn that all he has to do is be loud and act up, and then he won't have to sit there. He can go out in the hall." I felt like I could never win.

I don't know what a MIL is, but ??? 12-18 month-olds crying means they need attention from mother. Hugs, changed diaper, 'milk', etc. That is far too young for children to learn manipulation. What they are learning is that when they need help, parents are there. Such security will like prevent future game-playing.

IMO, if you attend a church that doesn't have a nursery, you need to expect some moises and interruptions from children... it's just their nature. And do you really think Jesus would be annoyed by children making noise? No, I'm pretty sure he's look back at them and smile.

IMHO belief in what you said above should be a prerequisite of salvation. (just kidding!) You are right, and get a hearty AMEN from me.

[ALatterDaySaint]

I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

thank you all for your input. i will share these thoughts with my wife

I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the Sacrament is similar to the Lord's Supper (Holy Communion). If so, I'm a bit surprised at all the "Go ahead, they'll learn from it," approach. My tradition treats the elements as symbolic, and we're hardly a "high church" movement. Nevertheless, the ceremony is one of very few sacrements we have. There are biblical warnings about not partaking in a casual or unworthy manner--that some have become sick or even fallen asleep (a euphemism, me thinks) for doing so. If I'm not mistaken, we generally would not encourage children who have not been baptized to participate. They can learn by watching, and approach it when they are old enough to understand and willfully join in. Just my humble opinion, though.

PC and Mr T. perhaps this might explain our Sacrament to you. It is from the March 1995 Ensign.

What covenants do we renew when we partake of the sacrament?

John E. MacKay, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Mar. 1995, 66

Response by John E. MacKay, Gospel Doctrine teacher in the Holladay Fourteenth Ward, Salt Lake Holladay South Stake.

According to our latter-day prophets and leaders, when you partake of the sacrament you renew whatever covenants you have made with the Lord. For example, if you have been baptized only, that is the covenant you renew. If you have received the Melchizedek Priesthood, you also renew that part of the oath and covenant related to your having received that priesthood. If you have received your endowment, you also renew the covenants associated with it. Further, if you have been sealed, you also renew that covenant. In other words, when you partake of the sacrament, you renew all the covenants you have made with the Lord.

President Joseph Fielding Smith taught that the primary reason for attending sacrament meeting is to “renew our covenants by partaking of the sacrament.” 1 Further, he taught that “each ordinance and requirement given to man for the purpose of bringing to pass his salvation and exaltation is a covenant.” 2

President Spencer W. Kimball elaborated on this theme: “Remembering covenants prevents apostasy. That is the real purpose of the sacrament, to keep us from forgetting, to help us to remember … [that which we have] covenanted at the water’s edge or at the sacrament table and in the temple.” 3

President Kimball further said: “The Savior emphasized that the tangible bread and water of the Sacrament were to remind us continually of the sacrifice he made for us and for renewal of our covenants of righteousness. … If a person, not a member of the Church, is in the congregation, we do not forbid him partaking of [the sacrament], but would properly advise that the sacrament is for the renewing of covenants. And, since he has not made the true covenant of baptism or temple covenant, he is exempt.” 4

What does it mean to "need the sacrament"? Thanks, Dr. T

This is from lds.org ~

# GS Sacrament

"For Latter-day Saints, sacrament refers to the ordinance of partaking of bread and water in remembrance of Christ’s atoning sacrifice. The broken bread represents his broken flesh; the water represents the blood that he shed to atone for our sins (1 Cor. 11: 23-25; D&C 27: 2). When worthy Church members take the sacrament, they promise to take upon them the name of Christ, to always remember him, and to keep his commandments. Through this ordinance, Church members renew their baptismal covenants."

Children under the age of 8, are not baptised. Thus they do not need to renew their baptismal covenents each Sunday.

"Little children do not need repentance or baptism, Moro. 8: 8-24. Little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten, D&C 29: 46-47. Parents should teach children gospel principles and practices, D&C 68: 25, 27-28. Children are holy through the atonement of Christ, D&C 74: 7. Parents are commanded to bring up their children in light and truth, D&C 93: 40. Children who die before the age of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom, D&C 137: 10. "

"Baptism not for infants: It is solemn mockery before God that ye should baptize little children, Moro. 8: 4-23. Children shall be baptized when eight years old, D&C 68: 27. All children who die before the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom, D&C 137: 10. "

Lastly, the prayers offered up at each sacrament.

D & C 20: 77 and D & C 20:79 are the prayers that are given each Sunday at Sacrament.

D&C 20:

75 It is expedient that the church meet together often to partake of bread and wine in the remembrance of the Lord Jesus;

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church and call upon the Father in solemn prayer, saying:

77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

78 The manner of administering the wine—he shall take the cup also, and say:

79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine* to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

* a later revelation stated that we were to use the word water in place of wine.

All scriptural references can easily be found at lds.org, click on gospel library, click on scriptures, then click on either Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, D & C., etc.

I don't know what a MIL is, but unsure.dontknow.gif ???

Mother-In-Law

Latter-Day-Saint said: I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.

Perhaps this article might help those with small children:

With help, young children can learn to be reverent. Chris Crowe, “Enjoying Sacrament Meeting with Children,” Ensign, July 1989, 40

[prisonchaplain]

I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.

Parents and parishioners + common sense + plus a frequently sanitized nursery with well-trained workers would solve most of these problems. So simple, yet these struggles have probably gone on since the infancies of Cain, Abel and Seth.

[angelbaby]

We have a 1 year old and a nearly 3 year old. We just let the 3 year old take the sacrament. It is a personal decision, though one plenty of parents make. I think it's more than just including them. In some ways you're preparing them for when they should take it. Remind them why they are having it. Why the prayers are said. Get them used to listening to and appreciating the sacrament prayers. Remind them as they grow and are taking it. Also encourage them as they take it to sit quietly during the process and think about the saviour. At 3 they are still too young really to understand, but it's a starting point.

Hope this helped.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.

Parents and parishioners + common sense + plus a frequently sanitized nursery with well-trained workers would solve most of these problems. So simple, yet these struggles have probably gone on since the infancies of Cain, Abel and Seth.

Of course I agree here! The church I've been frequenting has a wonderfully clean and fun-filled preschool room, with awesome caretakers. The children go into the service with their parents, stay for some hymn singing, then go up to the front for 'Children's Church' which lasts about 5 mintues. After that, they are escorted into their classrooms where they are taught a simple lesson, do arts and crafts that relate to the lesson, then go outside and play if time permits.

Not only do I get to listen to the sermon in peace and quiet without worrying about my child bothering anyone... but my child actually learns something about the week's Bible lesson, as it is presented in a way that makes sense to him.

Yes PC, I think I may have finally found my church!

[ALatterDaySaint]

Luke 187:12 "And ye shall know my church by its abundant child care and hassle free sermons.

13 And if it proclaims the gospel in its fullness, having the priesthood and authority to act in the name of the Father and the Son yet it have no hassle free child care, it is surly of that evil one. Yay even the devil who wanted to take away the agency and free child care of man from the beginning.

[shanstress70]

Luke 187:12 "And ye shall know my church by its abundant child care and hassle free sermons.

13 And if it proclaims the gospel in its fullness, having the priesthood and authority to act in the name of the Father and the Son yet it have no hassle free child care, it is surly of that evil one. Yay even the devil who wanted to take away the agency and free child care of man from the beginning.

Not my point at all and I think you know that.

My point is that I learn during the sermon, my child learns during his lesson, and I don't get rude looks from bitter old ladies! However, I always have the option of keeping him with me, and do for about half of the service.

[ALatterDaySaint]

Of course I was just joking.

[shanstress70]

I know you were somewhat kidding, but I wanted to say that it wasn't about a 'hassle' for me. :)

[miztrniceguy]

wow....i guess i got a pretty good topic started...lol

seriously, tho...I think we are going to let my daughter start taking the sacrament, and we have started with having her learn about being reverent and sitting quietly until after sacrament has been passed. only then will she get to bring out her toys, etc

[Bob_oz]

A very interesting discussion, my wife and I have been through this 6 times and of course watched others do the same.

We decided to allow each child to participate as they desired and found if ma and pa were eating the bread and drinking the water they wanted to also, we made no demands just offered.

We taught that the Sacrament was a special time, toys or books came out only after the Sacrament and we selected a group of special items reserved for sacrament, quiet soft toys and gospel related books, there was always a parents knee and a cuddle and if they had to be taken out they came back in again or they sat quietly if we had to stay in the foyer. I am no expert but I have found children get to understand how to control a parent from a young age, do this and get that, we found that starting at day one you take control or else one day you wake up to a smiling child who is the new ruler of your life and don't they know it!

For the organised teaching of children we have Primary with some wonderful people but Sacrament is for all members to attend and is also a teaching opportunity and not just for those with children, those who show distaste at the conduct of others have an opportunity too.

I have found that in every sacrament meeting there is something for me if and when I am willing to listen to both what is said and what the Spirit has to tell me. All to often I depend on the quality speaker to reach me but I am slowly learning that those who are learning to give a good talk may some day have the quality if I give them my attention.

Sacrament meetings are 70 minutes of quality opportunity, I just hope I can do better this week and the week after to be worthy of the opportunity.