Question regarding suicide and existence

[MauiMormon]

Hopefully someone here has heard something about this...

It is clear that we as mortal beings in this stage of our existence have the option of "when" to end this portion and move on the the next stage. It is part of having agency I suppose and I don't think that we understand a great deal about it at this time.

Has anyone ever heard any information that we would have the same ability or agency to decide whether or not to continue any of the other portions of our existence? I just can't quite wrap my head around the fact that there will be certain individuals from this life (sons of perdition) and all the 1/3 host of heaven who followed Lucifer that will be miserable for all eternity. Do they have no chance to END such misery? Ever?

From the information I do know, it seems that there are spirits in the spirit world (who have already lived on earth) who experience misery and sadness still. Will they continue to have such times even after the resurrection? Will those in a "lower" kingdom be eternally sorry or sad that they didn't "do better?" Will some be horribly regretful that they are not "living in the celestial kingdom sealed to their family?"

What I'd really like to know however is this. Will we have the option to end our spiritual lives? Commit spiritual suicide? And after that "intelligence suicide"? In other words can we really "end it all?" Can we CHOOSE to stop existing and go into nothingness? Just be DONE with it all? I just can't see how some choices made during a very brief mortal life can condemn one for eternity to a kingdom (assuming we are not saved in the highest level of the celestial kingdom) where we have regrets forever.

I'm sorry that I am not a very good writer, I'm sure I have mangled what I am trying to say here but hopefully some of you will understand what I'm trying to ask.

thanks for reading,

MM

[MorningStar]

I don't have any references for it, but I don't think that's possible. I hope you're not feeling like that's what you want.

[HiJolly]

I don't think *we* can toss ourselves on the ol' pottery wheel and get spun out again -- but I think God can.

...and I don't think anyone is going to toss our lump of clay in the dustbin. Don't think it's possible, unless BY was right about going back to elemental 'intelligence'. That could be, but still I think one would still be spun out again, at some point.

HiJolly

[prophetofdoom]

"10For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12Endless punishment is God’s punishment." D&C 19:10-12

I don't know if these verses are talking about time as we know it. It might be possible that the Lord is saying that any punishment given by him is called "endless" and "eternal." I also can't see the Lord leaving someone in an endless hell for bad choices made in this very short life... and with the lack of knowledge we have during this life. I don't dwell on this too much.

However, I doubt someone will be able to "self-terminate" as a spirit. They will have to learn to live with themselves and accept the love God has for all of his children. That is why suicide (on Earth) is such a bad idea... the problems that lead to it.. don't go away by killing the mortal body.

[slamjet]

From the descriptions of what awaits us in the here-after, there's no way we would want to "spiritually vaporize" ourselves.

Didn't Joseph Smith say somewhere that if we were to see what the Telestial Kingdom was like, we'd kill ourselves to get there?

[Mute]

Hopefully someone here has heard something about this...

It is clear that we as mortal beings in this stage of our existence have the option of "when" to end this portion and move on the the next stage. It is part of having agency I suppose and I don't think that we understand a great deal about it at this time.

Has anyone ever heard any information that we would have the same ability or agency to decide whether or not to continue any of the other portions of our existence? I just can't quite wrap my head around the fact that there will be certain individuals from this life (sons of perdition) and all the 1/3 host of heaven who followed Lucifer that will be miserable for all eternity. Do they have no chance to END such misery? Ever?

From the information I do know, it seems that there are spirits in the spirit world (who have already lived on earth) who experience misery and sadness still. Will they continue to have such times even after the resurrection? Will those in a "lower" kingdom be eternally sorry or sad that they didn't "do better?" Will some be horribly regretful that they are not "living in the celestial kingdom sealed to their family?"

What I'd really like to know however is this. Will we have the option to end our spiritual lives? Commit spiritual suicide? And after that "intelligence suicide"? In other words can we really "end it all?" Can we CHOOSE to stop existing and go into nothingness? Just be DONE with it all? I just can't see how some choices made during a very brief mortal life can condemn one for eternity to a kingdom (assuming we are not saved in the highest level of the celestial kingdom) where we have regrets forever.

I'm sorry that I am not a very good writer, I'm sure I have mangled what I am trying to say here but hopefully some of you will understand what I'm trying to ask.

thanks for reading,

MM

That's an interesting question. I have never read anything in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price or Doctrine and Covenants that states it is possible to end one's existence.

THE BOOK OF JACOB

THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 6

9 Know ye not that if ye will do these things, that the power of the redemption and the resurrection, which is in Christ, will bring you to stand with shame and awful guilt before the bar of God?

10 And according to the power of justice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.

The fact that the word unquenchable is used leads me to believe the LDS belief is that you can not end this.

May I ask why you are asking this?

[Wingnut]

Didn't Joseph Smith say somewhere that if we were to see what the Telestial Kingdom was like, we'd kill ourselves to get there?

I've heard that a lot, but I've always heard it in the same way you've posted it here: "didn't so-and-so say...?" To me, it doesn't sound like the type of thing that Joseph Smith would say. To me, it sounds like Mormon mythology/urban legend. I'd be happy if someone could provide an actual quote, though.

[MauiMormon]

From the descriptions of what awaits us in the here-after, there's no way we would want to "spiritually vaporize" ourselves.

Didn't Joseph Smith say somewhere that if we were to see what the Telestial Kingdom was like, we'd kill ourselves to get there?

Joseph Smith (nor any other latter day prophet) said something like that. There are lots of descriptions however of "what awaits many in the here-after" that are not very rosy.

[Casper]

I have also heard this mentioned many times in the same way and the only place I can think it has come from, is a quote that has slightly changed over the years.

I can say with regard to parting with our friends, and going ourselves, that I have been near enough to understand eternity so that I have had to exercise a great deal more faith to desire to live than I ever exercised in my whole life to live. The brightness and glory of the next apartment is inexpressible. It is not encumbered so that when we advance in years we have to be stubbing along and be careful lest we fall down. We see our youth, even, frequently stubbing their toes and falling down. But yonder, how different! They move with ease and like lightning (DBY, 380-81)

And I also do not believe it will be possible to end ones existence completely, I think if intelligence was not created or made it could not be destroyed, it can only be change from one form to another. However I could believe that if one chose to end a life in the spirit world they could be striped back to naked intelligence and lose all memory of the life they had once lived. That last part is completely speculation just an idea, I do find it hard to believe that Heavenly Father could leave any of his children to safer for every without any way to relieve that pain.

[MauiMormon]

May I ask why you are asking this?

Dear Mute,

Normally my personality (and upbringing by a mother who was a Elementary English teacher) would cause me to respond to your question by saying. "Yes, you may ask why I am asking" or "go ahead and ask". However, since my wife has been a good influence on me (and kicked me under the sheets when I suggested those answers), I will instead answer what I think your question is and tell you of several reasons I put forth my original questions.

1. I am an exceedingly curious man (maybe Hagoth is one of my distant ancestors)

2. I think about stuff a lot since I unfortunately have a lot of time on my hands.

3. It's not that I'm "too lazy" so to speak to do all the research and look up sources and information myself but more that I just know there are people out there who perhaps have already done that and also some who are far more knowledgeable than I am in some areas. (my wife might say that I'm also kinda lazy however)

4. Because I hope not only for those pour souls who might have to go through a long period of misery but also for my own sake that this IS possible. I see no point in suicide with the information that is mostly known at this time. People commit suicide (for the most part) in order to escape or end pain. If you are only trading one type of pain for another or things don't get any better then there really is no point of doing that is there?

5. There are probably some additional reasons, but I'm probably too lazy (at least right now) to think of or articulate them.

Thanks everyone for reading already and the responses so far, looking forward to more sharing and knowledge.

mm

p.s. that avatar isn't really me, just some guy whose expression I happened to find amusing.

[rex8499]

I will enjoy this mental exercise. I too like to ponder things like this. Not because I'm suicidal, it's just fun to think about. My wife and I have come up with some fairly interesting theories. But they're just theories, not that we think they're actually doctrine. If the prophet came out and said, "you're wrong" I would say "OK" and move on. But I digress.

I don't expect that we will actually be able to get a good answer for this. As people who are dead and know don't give us much info on the afterlife. And people who are dead and then committed spiritual suicide to cease to exist permanently definitely wouldn't be around anymore to tell us how it turned out.

If spiritual suicide were an option, would not Satan and those eventually condemned to eternal darkness take that route? It seems like a quick and easy cop out for all the pain they have caused. It doesn't seem to me like they would be given such an option. If they don't have the option, why would the rest of us?

Luckily for us, I don't expect the afterlife to be awful enough that we would want to end it permanently.

[ZSEdwardson]

From D&C

Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power–They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels– And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath (D&C 76:32-38).

And the book of Moses shows that even the Sons of Perdition will have power over Satan, as at least they did not rebel at the time of Lucifer.

If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him; For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.

[Mute]

Luckily for us, I don't expect the afterlife to be awful enough that we would want to end it permanently.

If an after life does turn out to be true based upon a Christian or Muslim beliefs, I dare say I might want that. The reason I say this is because many Christian and Muslim faiths believe that all those who are not part of their particular faith will be literally tortured for eternity.

If your faith turns out to be wrong and another turns out to be true, you would go through the same punishment I would. Would you honestly want to live an eternity like that simply because you did not join a "correct" religion?

If I did not have the power to stop a God from doing that to me or even have the ability to fight it or prevent it from happening to others, then why would I want to exist? I can't imagine that as a way I'd want to spend an eternity.

Eternity is a long time to comprehend.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hopefully someone here has heard something about this...

It is clear that we as mortal beings in this stage of our existence have the option of "when" to end this portion and move on the the next stage. It is part of having agency I suppose and I don't think that we understand a great deal about it at this time.

Has anyone ever heard any information that we would have the same ability or agency to decide whether or not to continue any of the other portions of our existence? I just can't quite wrap my head around the fact that there will be certain individuals from this life (sons of perdition) and all the 1/3 host of heaven who followed Lucifer that will be miserable for all eternity. Do they have no chance to END such misery? Ever?

I've had that question about the third of the host of heaven as well. I would say, though, if one believes that a third of the host of heaven was cast out forever then I would have to think that God really had no ability to mold or form spiritual children into the sum of their spiritual being. Whatever that process is, if we liken it to earthly birth, I don't think God can form spiritual beings one way or another. They are either valiant or they or not.

I don't think God would form a spiritual being knowing ahead that they would choose to be cast out forever. So, to me either those spirits are cast out forever and God does not have control over the sum of ones spiritual traits or God can mix together certain spiritual traits when spirits are formed and the "casting out" is not forever. I don't think it could be both that God could mix certain less valiant traits in certain spirits and have them cast out forever, that doesn't seem like the God I believe in.

[rex8499]

If an after life does turn out to be true based upon a Christian or Muslim beliefs, I dare say I might want that. The reason I say this is because many Christian and Muslim faiths believe that all those who are not part of their particular faith will be literally tortured for eternity.

If your faith turns out to be wrong and another turns out to be true, you would go through the same punishment I would. Would you honestly want to live an eternity like that simply because you did not join a "correct" religion?

If I did not have the power to stop a God from doing that to me or even have the ability to fight it or prevent it from happening to others, then why would I want to exist? I can't imagine that as a way I'd want to spend an eternity.

Eternity is a long time to comprehend.

That's a good point. I suppose if I were wrong and facing eternal torture I too might want out permanently. Everyone probably would. There's no point in enduring it indefinitely.

[hungrytrash]

I think there's a poor understanding of what eternity will be like. First and foremost, the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are utterly amazing. Happiness beyond our imagination. The Celestial is far better, but I don't think those in the Terrestrial and Telestial will be living in regret for eternity. We go where we are most comfortable, based on the choices we make in our life. If an heir to the Telestial kingdom, for example, were brought into the Celestial kingdom, he would be happier in outer darkness than being in the presence of God while unworthy. God is actually doing them a favor by sending them to lesser kingdoms.

Outer darkness is just separation from the Godhead. The Telestial Kingdom has the presence of the Holy Ghost. The Terrestrial has the presence of both Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. The Celestial has the presence of the whole Godhead.

Outer darkness would be separation from all good and love, but even so, it is better than the hell most Christians envision. The heirs to outer darkness will be relatively miserable, but even they would choose it over true "death" in an eternal sense (if it existed, which it doesn't), I guarantee.

God's plan is perfect. It is perfectly fair. He puts us all where we'd be the most happy, no matter what we've done.

P.S. I can't wait until I'm resurrected!

[ctrtoday]

THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS A DEFINITE ABSOLUTE NO!!! The soul cannot commit suicide.

Search, ponder, and pray about the words of Alma;

Alma 12: 8-19 . I would be more than happy to help you understand this principle. You mentioned something about that it doesn't seem fair that we could be held eternally responsible for our mistakes while on earth. (I'm paraphrasing) I've pondered this concept for years. I believe that when we sin we are spiritually warned. As the scripture says, if you harden your heart, ignore the promptings of the spirit, than to him is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil,

The scriptures go on to explain how, and why this happens. I am 52 years old living on this earth now. I testify to you that there has been plenty of time, opportunity, and free agency to make mistakes, and then choose to exercise my free agency to repent, and finally come to an understanding, and knowledge that God's way is the best way not my way.

I believe people do not want to accept what is written in scripture, because we/they want to continue in their sins. Otherwise, they will listen when the spirit prompts them that they are in a sinful situation, and to abandon it or to remain in the sin.

We get to choose, and we get the consequence. I compare it to a university degree. Many,many hours of sacrifice, time, money, and energy goes into obtaining the degree, because we understand that this is the price that must be paid if we are to gain the rewards of the work.

Do you think it is fair that souls who have chosen to be obedient to the commandments of God should inherit all the blessings and rewards promised?

Excuse me, but should the swinger, adulterer be allowed to have all the rights, privileges, and power that accompany one who is clean, pure, and worthy to live in the presence of our Father in Heaven. Do you think that this soul would be qualified via learning discipline and obedience in the father's plan. Is the person qualified to handle the responsibility of righteousness that comes hand in hand with receiving all the gifts that the father has.

I am an overly fair minded, compassionate person, and I have studied this out in my mind,and heart. I know that in the length of a normal life span that there is plenty of opportunity to feel the spirit warn us when we are wandering or are off the pathway returning home to our Father in Heaven.

I read this quote about a month ago, and have kept you in my mind until I came across the scriptures referencing this.

Over and over we have been told that this earth life is a probationary state. A place of testing.

Hope this helps :)

[MauiMormon]

"Do you think it is fair that souls who have chosen to be obedient to the commandments of God should inherit all the blessings and rewards promised?

Excuse me, but should the swinger, adulterer be allowed to have all the rights, privileges, and power that accompany one who is clean, pure, and worthy to live in the presence of our Father in Heaven. Do you think that this soul would be qualified via learning discipline and obedience in the father's plan. Is the person qualified to handle the responsibility of righteousness that comes hand in hand with receiving all the gifts that the father has."

It seems to me that you may fall into the camp of "salvation via works" that unfortunately pervades the church and that people "qualify" through correct living during their lives.

as to your question regarding the swinger and adulterers... I refer you to what Christ said to the harlot brought to him and the harlot/hooker who washed His feet. The parable of the laborers is also something to consider.

It's that darn line about "being saved by grace after all we can do". Consider for a moment. Does ANYONE do ALL they can do? Ever? Have you ever looked back on even a week in your life and felt you did ALL you could have done? That you couldn't have done anything better? Perhaps the meaning most often used should really be more like we are saved by grace in spite of everything we can do?

Lastly I'll comment on something else others have mentioned. There seems to be an idea that everyone who didn't choose Satan's plan (i.e. the 2/3 vs. the 1/3) were "better" than those who did. It seems obvious to me simply because of Cain and other Sons of Perdition that this cannot be true. We do not know WHY individuals chose one plan over the other. I imagine that many if not most of the 1/3 didn't choose the plan that Satan presented because they were evil, rebellious souls but rather that they were scared silly of not being able to make it back because of their own weaknesses and found the guarantee of Lucifer to be quite persuasive. On the other hand I think there were spirits who WERE rebellious who are among the 2/3rd's simply because they WANTED to have the ability to choose for themselves and would never want to be FORCED to be good. Think about it, the MOST rebellious spirit children would never choose to be part of Satan's plan. If they did and Satan then won, (maybe he never could have but those that followed him must have thought there was a chance) they would then never be able to use their agency.

Anyway, what I asked the question to see if there was any guidance or clearer doctrine out there but if there is, those kind enough to read my question and respond haven't yet heard of anything specifically.

[slamjet]

I think the best thing to hang your hat on is when Christ and the scriptures say that "it would have been better if they have not been born" or that the sinner will feel the need to shrink away and hide (paraphrasing) that they will not be able to blow themselves out of existence. It's implies rather than explicate.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Lastly I'll comment on something else others have mentioned. There seems to be an idea that everyone who didn't choose Satan's plan (i.e. the 2/3 vs. the 1/3) were "better" than those who did. It seems obvious to me simply because of Cain and other Sons of Perdition that this cannot be true. We do not know WHY individuals chose one plan over the other. I imagine that many if not most of the 1/3 didn't choose the plan that Satan presented because they were evil, rebellious souls but rather that they were scared silly of not being able to make it back because of their own weaknesses and found the guarantee of Lucifer to be quite persuasive. On the other hand I think there were spirits who WERE rebellious who are among the 2/3rd's simply because they WANTED to have the ability to choose for themselves and would never want to be FORCED to be good. Think about it, the MOST rebellious spirit children would never choose to be part of Satan's plan. If they did and Satan then won, (maybe he never could have but those that followed him must have thought there was a chance) they would then never be able to use their agency.

I think your perception of the war in Heaven is skewed by what we see here when we talk about rebellion. I don't think there was any deception going on in the war in Heaven. I think we were all very well informed, as much as we could be without having experience but definitely better informed than we are now ... because here we have to live by faith. Even if they were "scared silly" then that is not a characteristic consistent with being like our Father in Heaven (which is different than being scared silly in this veil covered fallen state, here).

If they were that informed, a hundred times or a thousand times etc. more informed than we are now then they did it because they wanted to and we did it because we wanted to. I don't think there is any question about that. If you think some got tricked or did it for uninformed reasons, then I think we would call those people simply 'dumb'. But that 'dumb' person is many many times more intelligent than the smartest man in a fallen state.

I think the bottom line choice that was made in the war in Heaven is that we essentially were told that if we wanted to be like our Father in Heaven then we would have to have complete devotion and obedience to His word and forget about oneself. I think the majority of us were somewhat valiant already so it was kind of like more of the same. Then there were others who thought that now they have learned so much that maybe they could do it on their own, they could figure it out on their own. They never had it in them to give themselves up in the first place, so they went with Satan. The rest of us have a chance to figure out how to do that, maybe with a little refinement through life's lessons first, but we have the chance to gain the attitude of completely giving up our pride driven self centered desires that comes with a little bit of knowledge and little bit of freedom. If we prove we can keep our eye single to His glory then we have what it takes to be like Him. Those 1/3 already didn't have that mindset. They didn't miss out on anything they could have done. Whereas everyone here, even Cain, had that potential but when the stakes are higher they may fold. To be self-centered is miserable because it is limiting. Revealing how much they are really able to give of themselves to the process.

When Cain was tested in a "double blinded study" so-to-speak, he revealed his love of things that are self-centered acts over giving acts. He chose misery over happiness. The reason God's glory is eternally increasing is because He is charitable and finds pleasure in the success of others, that is the core trait of Eternal Happiness. Starting with the war in Heaven we all choose where we are the most comfortable in terms of how much we are really willing to give of ourselves.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer

[normaje]

I just can't quite wrap my head around the fact that there will be certain individuals from this life (sons of perdition) and all the 1/3 host of heaven who followed Lucifer that will be miserable for all eternity. Do they have no chance to END such misery? Ever?

I think the problem here is all that move on must acknowledge Jesus as our Savior. The 1/3 chose instead Satan. And how can they move on without a body which we have been told can only come from this temporary existance.

[gruden]

Hopefully someone here has heard something about this...

It is clear that we as mortal beings in this stage of our existence have the option of "when" to end this portion and move on the the next stage. It is part of having agency I suppose and I don't think that we understand a great deal about it at this time.

Has anyone ever heard any information that we would have the same ability or agency to decide whether or not to continue any of the other portions of our existence? I just can't quite wrap my head around the fact that there will be certain individuals from this life (sons of perdition) and all the 1/3 host of heaven who followed Lucifer that will be miserable for all eternity. Do they have no chance to END such misery? Ever?

From the information I do know, it seems that there are spirits in the spirit world (who have already lived on earth) who experience misery and sadness still. Will they continue to have such times even after the resurrection? Will those in a "lower" kingdom be eternally sorry or sad that they didn't "do better?" Will some be horribly regretful that they are not "living in the celestial kingdom sealed to their family?"

What I'd really like to know however is this. Will we have the option to end our spiritual lives? Commit spiritual suicide? And after that "intelligence suicide"? In other words can we really "end it all?" Can we CHOOSE to stop existing and go into nothingness? Just be DONE with it all? I just can't see how some choices made during a very brief mortal life can condemn one for eternity to a kingdom (assuming we are not saved in the highest level of the celestial kingdom) where we have regrets forever.

I'm sorry that I am not a very good writer, I'm sure I have mangled what I am trying to say here but hopefully some of you will understand what I'm trying to ask.

thanks for reading,

MM

Do you really want to know the answers to these questions...? Remember, curiosity killed the cat...

Remember what King Benjamin said, that we owe our lives and sustenance to God - literally every breath we take is because we are granted support from Him (Mosiah 2:21-25). We usually read stuff like this on a superficial level, but maybe we should pause to think more deeply what this means.

It may mean that Lucifer and his minions also rely on sustenance from God to exist - as well as anyone/anything else. After the final battle and they're shut out in outer darkness, where will this sustenance come from? There will be none - that's why it's outer darkness. What will become of a spiritual entity deprived of sustaining light from Father? What happens to us if the light were turned off permanently? Care to join them to find out?

Secondly, I do recall reading recently that Lorenzo Snow was visited by Joseph Smith and warned that he would be destroyed in the hereafter if he refused to accept the law of plural marriage. I have no idea if that meant literal destruction of the soul or something else. Strangely enough, this is something I pondered, and I personally do believe that a soul can be literally destroyed. What are we but a collection of intelligences combined in some way to make one, cohesive intelligence - a soul? Can something that was made be un-made? I believe so.

The Book of Mormon tells us we choose between life and death all the time (Alma 29:5) and people often choose death. It must be some strange quality we possess to do something like that, but it is our choice to make (Jacob 6:6-8). It may go even further than that, but those are just my opinions.

Edited April 23, 2011 by gruden

[Javajot]

Maui, read Alma 42. The whole chapter. It would answer most of your questions and teaches us several important doctrines:

This life is temporary.

The life of our souls is eternal and does not end.

There are a lot of other goodies in that chapter, but this one might be the one you are looking for:

Alma 42:16

"Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be, affixed opposite to the plan of happiness, which was as eternal also as the life of the soul."

If you could "end it" you could cheat justice and there would be no punishment and (Alma 42:22) "the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God."

23:

But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

26:

And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery.

^^^^^

Which destruction and misery are both eternal, just as is the life of the soul. And "destruction" is spiritual death, i.e. permanent separation from our Father in Heaven. A soul can not cease to exist.

Hope that helps!

Edited April 24, 2011 by Javajot

[gruden]

If you could "end it" you could cheat justice and there would be no punishment and (Alma 42:22) "the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God."

Hmmm, I'm reading that verse I and don't see how your comment matches what Alma said. I think you're basing that on the idea that destruction is an escape from punishment. How often have we read in the scriptures where destruction is the punishment? I can't think of a greater destruction than to cease to exist.

You can't destroy an intelligence because it cannot be made (D&C 93:29). I've yet to find anything that says a soul cannot be destroyed. When I read things like Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow were threatened with spiritual destruction if they didn't accept polygamy, that makes me sit up and take notice, as I'm sure they did. Yikes!