Kids disrespectful? Whose to blame?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Greetings all,

I'm sure that everyone's heard complaints about how disrespectful children are to adults these days and there certainly has been a change from the days that boys called their fathers "sir" and all adults were known by their proper Mr. and Mrs. titles. Teachers are still referred to that way, but the only time I see little Johnny or Suzie go over to a friend's house and call their friend's mother Mrs. Smith or father as Mr. Smith is in movies.

I also have seen a disturbing trend of adults divesting themselves of the proper customs and courtesies. "You don't have to call me Mrs. Dietre, call me Diane." "Just call me Dave." "When you call me 'sir' I look for my father." These are the responses children get when they attempt to exert proper protocol. It's small wonder that many have given up altogether and are on a first name basis with all the adults in their lives. But what connection does this have to respect.

In the military, your body language and manner of addressing superiors is of the utmost importance. Before an officer, you always address the officer as Sir or Ma'am, stand at attention during a conversation, etc, even if you were an officer yourself, but a junior officer. Before a ranking NCO you would stand at parade rest and refer to the NCO by their proper title, "First Sergeant", "Drill Sergeant" or whatever their rank and title is. To some, this may seem like a lot of meaningless rules, but their is a purpose to it. When I stand at attention and call my Company Commander "Sir" it reminds me who I'm talking to. Discipline is maintained in the military through customs and courtesies, and to a lesser degree, society is held together by the same means.

Protocol is the backbone of respect and children are not being taught protocol; and moreover they are being corrected when they attempt to do the right thing. Once the proper means of addressing adults is out of the way, the onset of disrespect is the next logical step and so it is that nowadays children talk to adults in an uncouth and sometimes shockingly irreverent manner.

I say it is not their fault.

[Family_Man]

I would agree to an extent. There are some teenagers and preteens that seem to be disrespectful solely because they think it is entertaining. There are young men and women that believe (much like many of us used to) that we know more and better than adults, and therefore they are not worthy of our respect.

As for why many parents are being less strict, I would say that a shift in popular culture, one which says be a friend first and a parent second. This culture justifies bad behavior from children because the parents say "Well, at least I know what they are doing". While I doubt very much many of the posters on these boards fall into this category, we apear to be a shrinking population in the US, if not the world.

What branch are you?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I would agree to an extent. There are some teenagers and preteens that seem to be disrespectful solely because they think it is entertaining. There are young men and women that believe (much like many of us used to) that we know more and better than adults, and therefore they are not worthy of our respect.

As for why many parents are being less strict, I would say that a shift in popular culture, one which says be a friend first and a parent second. This culture justifies bad behavior from children because the parents say "Well, at least I know what they are doing". While I doubt very much many of the posters on these boards fall into this category, we apear to be a shrinking population in the US, if not the world.

What branch are you?

Yes, that is one of the reasons and mentalities that feed into this problem. I also hear young parents say that they are not going to shove alot of religious propaganda down their children's throats, but instead let them decide for themselves what they will believe. What an awful idea! Children are pleading for leadership from adults, to be shown the way, and adults are divesting themselves of their responsibility to provide the guidance children need. Show me one young adult who has rejected religion because his upbringing was overly strict and I'll show you 10 young adults who have rejected religion because their parents simply didn't care enough to set a good example and raise them right.

I was in the Army 2002-2005. Deployed to Korea. No one shot at me.

[Family_Man]

Good. I am Army National Guard, 2nd deployment, this time to Afghanistan. Hope no one shoots at me.

[Backroads]

When teaching, the disrespectful kids were the kids of parents who wanted to be friends. Usually, any discipline that would happen would explode in a too much-too late situation that scared the kid. A fellow teacher had a student who extremely immature and misbehaved. She talked with parents and advised them to set up a system of consequences.

Which they did.

Half an hour less of video games if he misbehaved at school.

[Soulsearcher]

Yes, that is one of the reasons and mentalities that feed into this problem. I also hear young parents say that they are not going to shove alot of religious propaganda down their children's throats, but instead let them decide for themselves what they will believe. What an awful idea! Children are pleading for leadership from adults, to be shown the way, and adults are divesting themselves of their responsibility to provide the guidance children need. Show me one young adult who has rejected religion because his upbringing was overly strict and I'll show you 10 young adults who have rejected religion because their parents simply didn't care enough to set a good example and raise them right.

I was in the Army 2002-2005. Deployed to Korea. No one shot at me.

So only children raised with religion are raised right?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

So only children raised with religion are raised right?

Yes. Exactly. Jesus said to suffer the children to come to Him and do not hinder them. To deprive growing children of the knowledge of God is an eggregious offense that will not go unnoticed on judgement day.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

When teaching, the disrespectful kids were the kids of parents who wanted to be friends. Usually, any discipline that would happen would explode in a too much-too late situation that scared the kid. A fellow teacher had a student who extremely immature and misbehaved. She talked with parents and advised them to set up a system of consequences.

Which they did.

Half an hour less of video games if he misbehaved at school.

And you're probably the only adult he refers to by the proper Mrs. title. It's a shame when parents neglect discipline. It's why Proverbs says that anyone who spares the rod (discipline) hates his son. Every parent in the world will claim hotly that they love their children, but the Proverb is correct. Any parent who withholds discipline actually hates their child in spite of their claim otherwise.

[Soulsearcher]

Yes. Exactly. Jesus said to suffer the children to come to Him and do not hinder them. To deprive growing children of the knowledge of God is an eggregious offense that will not go unnoticed on judgement day.

Raising with religion is far from a sure sign kids are raised right. Not forcing a child to church is a far cry from hindering them. There is a difference between forcing upon a child and letting the child seek for themselves. LDS and Catholics both believe this. Baptism for children in LDS church is age 8, they are requested to make a choice, and it must be wondered if it's an unbiased choice because since birth for children born into the church they are pretty much taught there is no other way but the LDS. With Catholics it's confirmation around age 12, they are asked to make a choice, but yet again with children born in the church, it's not so much a free choice as it is expected. Leaving it up to a child to seek their own truth without it being expected or required would seem to lead to a more honest search closer to the stories of converts who sought out truth.

[Soulsearcher]

And you're probably the only adult he refers to by the proper Mrs. title. It's a shame when parents neglect discipline. It's why Proverbs says that anyone who spares the rod (discipline) hates his son. Every parent in the world will claim hotly that they love their children, but the Proverb is correct. Any parent who withholds discipline actually hates their child in spite of their claim otherwise.

The question becomes is there a universal discipline? With each child being somewhat unique do we question a discipline if it works on the child but does not equate to what we think discipline should be do we accept it or try and make it more to our liking?

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

So, do some kids disrespect you over homophones?

[Nahilolo]

As a wise 22 year old with no children of my own (lol) I would like to make a comment on how I was raised. I was raised by a single mother who blended the friendship and the authoritative parenting methods. I had to do chores and my homework first but I was always able to have friends over and was allowed other freedoms that many kids my age weren't allowed to do. My mom was always letting me do adventerous things in highschool like coloring my hair purple but that was reward for staying on the honor roll. Having so much freedom and responsability made me want to get a job right away, so I got my first job at 16 but I had to keep my grades up or I would have to quit. She has also always let rmake my own mistakes, like when I got into major credit card debt right out of high school. I asked for money but she helped me a different way, by making a budget to help me pay off the cards and teaching me a valuable lesson. I think my mom always making me feel like a grown-up and treating me like a grown-up has given me a very strong work ethic and is the reason I am such an independent person today.

[volgadon]

So only children raised with religion are raised right?

Of course not.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Raising with religion is far from a sure sign kids are raised right. Not forcing a child to church is a far cry from hindering them. There is a difference between forcing upon a child and letting the child seek for themselves.

This idea of "forcing a child to church" is an oft repeated lunacy. Children aren't being dragged kicking and screaming into church unless something bad is happening there. This is a matter of religious conviction. Somebody who truly believes that the LDS church is the true and restored church of Jesus Christ is going to engender a moral imperative to impress this upon their children. There is nothing within the Christian/Judeo tradition that supports your advice. But rather:

Deuteronomy 6

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

LDS and Catholics both believe this.

As one who has been diligent in defending the LDS from untruths for years, I'm calling you on this one as well. The LDS do NOT believe this. Neither do Catholics.

Baptism for children in LDS church is age 8, they are requested to make a choice, and it must be wondered if it's an unbiased choice because since birth for children born into the church they are pretty much taught there is no other way but the LDS. With Catholics it's confirmation around age 12, they are asked to make a choice, but yet again with children born in the church, it's not so much a free choice as it is expected. Leaving it up to a child to seek their own truth without it being expected or required would seem to lead to a more honest search closer to the stories of converts who sought out truth.

Catholic children are confirmed and given first communion in the 2nd grade. There are other rites that follow. But in both faiths, children are asked to make a life decision at a tender age. Far from supporting your claim, this works against it. Because a child is being asked to make a commitment to the faith in which they were raised in contravention to your advice that they be let free to "seek for themselves."

[Soulsearcher]

This idea of "forcing a child to church" is an oft repeated lunacy. Children aren't being dragged kicking and screaming into church unless something bad is happening there. This is a matter of religious conviction. Somebody who truly believes that the LDS church is the true and restored church of Jesus Christ is going to engender a moral imperative to impress this upon their children. There is nothing within the Christian/Judeo tradition that supports your advice. But rather:

Deuteronomy 6

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

As one who has been diligent in defending the LDS from untruths for years, I'm calling you on this one as well. The LDS do NOT believe this. Neither do Catholics.

Catholic children are confirmed and given first communion in the 2nd grade. There are other rites that follow. But in both faiths, children are asked to make a life decision at a tender age. Far from supporting your claim, this works against it. Because a child is being asked to make a commitment to the faith in which they were raised in contravention to your advice that they be let free to "seek for themselves."

So you claim LDS and Catholics do not believe in each member using free agency to choose their loyalty to their faith? That's new to me, it seems to be a central tenant in the LDS faith and growing up Catholic they seemed to believe it was a matter of choice as well. And yes children are forced, and in teens it can very much be kicking and screaming because the parents only know one way and that is the only way they will accept for their kids, removing a certain amount of choice. Is this always the case, no, but it happens quite a lot as we've seen on this forum with parents asking advice on how to deal with this situation.

As for confirmation being combined with communion it's changed then. It used to be two separate sacraments with communion being held around 8 years old and confirmation being separate and held around 12 yrs old. And as you read i don't fully support the sacraments being held at young ages because the children haven't been shown anything but the one faith and many times this is where issues come in the future. " why was i never told about this?" The kids learn one idea with out option and are never really given a choice, just expected to follow their parents rather blindly but not because they've made an informed choice. Some might suggest this is one of the reasons that you are starting to see a decline in memberships in families that have been dedicated for generations, youth and young adults are being openly exposed to more faith now than they used to be and they are becoming curious.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

A little thread drift is common, but this has been a whole different azimuth of discussion. I'd like to get the topic back on children, respect, and protocol as a tool of discipline. I'll respond to posts on the OP. Thank you.

[applepansy]

I think the role of society plays a big part in how respectful kids are. Parents can try but by the time kids are in Junior high they are getting a heavy dose of how society respects authority.

so....Yes teaching our children protocol is important. But in our world today, society and media undo a lot of what parents/teachers/leaders are teaching.

[Soulsearcher]

A little thread drift is common, but this has been a whole different azimuth of discussion. I'd like to get the topic back on children, respect, and protocol as a tool of discipline. I'll respond to posts on the OP. Thank you.

LOL you brought up the drift in topic.

[Dravin]

I think it extends beyond children, or at least it didn't start with this generation. I don't know if Sir and Ma'am are necessary components (For me calling my Father or Mother is a term of respect) but I'd say people of all ages are disinclined to respect authority. One crucial component, and I think this has been mentioned, is if your children are going to respect their teacher, the parents need to respect the teacher. And that of course applies beyond teachers, no amount of telling your children to call cops Officer/Sir/Ma'am is going to make them respect their authority if you constantly refer to them as pigs when they aren't around.

[Guest Alana]

My question is, back when calling adults 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' was the norm, in primary, when their teachers asked them to please be quiet, did they actually listen better than now?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

My question is, back when calling adults 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' was the norm, in primary, when their teachers asked them to please be quiet, did they actually listen better than now?

Yes, I think so. As Backroads and Dravin were saying, Parents often don't support discipline in the home. Children listened better because they feared the teacher's switch and more than that, they feared what awaited them at home if they were unruly. There was an alliance then that seems much weaker today. "I'm going to tell your parents," doesn't hold the same threat if the child believes their parent will either not care or just blow up but not do anything effective to curtail their behavior.

When I was in Jr. High, we had a "cut school" day and a student walkout that corresponded with a teachers' union strike. I was feeling rebellious and a little miffed that our teachers suffered such dire mistreatment at the hands of the school administration, so I cut school too. The next day, there was a long line at the attendance office filled with students with notes from their parents excusing their "absence". I knew better than to even ask my parents not wanting to give them opportunity to laugh hysterically. I felt jealous and thought all those students' parents loved them more. Of course now I know that the opposite is true; that those unfortunate students had parents that hated them.

My point is, there is no longer a collusion of discipline that works out of love for children and concern for their upbringing and the building of their character. Now it's not just a matter of children being quiet at the teacher's prompt, it's whether or not they all turned off their cell phones as instructed. What knuckle-headed parent thinks an 11 year old needs a cell phone? Apparently quite a few.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I think the role of society plays a big part in how respectful kids are. Parents can try but by the time kids are in Junior high they are getting a heavy dose of how society respects authority.

so....Yes teaching our children protocol is important. But in our world today, society and media undo a lot of what parents/teachers/leaders are teaching.

You have to wonder what the children in Wisconsin are thinking as they watch their own teachers act lawlessly, trashing up the capital building, stalking the governor at his home, assaulting people at rallies, and disobeying police officers. When grown people throw temper tantrums, where do children turn for examples of discipline, maturity, and respect?

[Guest mormonmusic]

Parents also need to be careful their conversation at home isn't disprespectful to authority figures or others in general, or that they aren't disrespectful to their kids themselves. People tell us our kids are really respectful, and I think it's part of our family culture to talk to others with respect.

[Traveler]

Raising with religion is far from a sure sign kids are raised right. Not forcing a child to church is a far cry from hindering them. There is a difference between forcing upon a child and letting the child seek for themselves. LDS and Catholics both believe this. Baptism for children in LDS church is age 8, they are requested to make a choice, and it must be wondered if it's an unbiased choice because since birth for children born into the church they are pretty much taught there is no other way but the LDS. With Catholics it's confirmation around age 12, they are asked to make a choice, but yet again with children born in the church, it's not so much a free choice as it is expected. Leaving it up to a child to seek their own truth without it being expected or required would seem to lead to a more honest search closer to the stories of converts who sought out truth.

Do we consider it optional for a child to learn to read? or to do Math? In the same way we “force” math and history we should force religion. I submit that no one will ever understand history unless they understand religion and attempting to teach history without religion is not just foolish but deceitful and on par with treason - not just for modern mankind but towards every human that has ever lived.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Greetings all,

...

In the military, your body language and manner of addressing superiors is of the utmost importance. Before an officer, you always address the officer as Sir or Ma'am, stand at attention during a conversation, etc, even if you were an officer yourself, but a junior officer. Before a ranking NCO you would stand at parade rest and refer to the NCO by their proper title, "First Sergeant", "Drill Sergeant" or whatever their rank and title is. To some, this may seem like a lot of meaningless rules, but their is a purpose to it. When I stand at attention and call my Company Commander "Sir" it reminds me who I'm talking to. Discipline is maintained in the military through customs and courtesies, and to a lesser degree, society is held together by the same means.

...

Respect and honor is a two way street. I served in the military during the Vietnam era. The concept that it is expected to show respect to officers was a big problem for me if the officer was not willing to show the exact same respect for those that served under them. It was interesting that many officers (about 1/2) responded well to my attitude; it also was interesting to me that some hated me and went out of their way to cause me problems because of my attitude.

Like anything in life it appears to me that there are those that deserve respect and honor and many that do not. I am convnced that the honor of the military is held together by perhaps 10%. But it is not just the military; the bisness model employed in the USA is a failure and the primary reason is the failure of upper management. The same can be said of politics as well.

The Traveler