The “Middle Way” and “Stay LDS”: Is this OK?

[The_Phoenix]

I have recently found two things or sites that cause my mind to wonder. Both of these sites remind me of the scriptures, “I would rather ye be hot or cold, for if ye are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth” and “No man who putteth his hand to the plow and looketh back is fit for the kingdom of God” (both the words of Christ), I quote from memory, (BTW, the new changes to LDS.org are not as good for research from the old format, IMHO. Growing up Baptist this was called “backsliding”.

Are “lukewarm” members a stumblingblock too both the believer and non-believer?

Is there a “middle way” and should someone “Stay LDS”, under any circumstance?

All have their ups and downs, what are we to do if our doubts get the best of us?

I would love to hear all opinions, even those of different faiths, and how they view this topic.

Here is the links to both sites:

Edit to add:

Just thought of another scripture:

Joshua 24: 15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Edited January 5, 2014 by pam

[Guest mormonmusic]

I had the same thought when I lurked at Staylds -- at least, initially.

Personally, I'd rather have people at Church lukewarm than not at Church at all. I was lukewarm for several years and the weekly HP group lessons wore away at my concerns and lifted me back into full activity. If I had've been at home, pursuing my own worldly interests, then such influence would not have been possible.

Also, I think the scripture about being lukewarm might apply to our state of commitment on judgment day rather than our state at times during our mortal probation. I don't see God spewing people out of his mouth when they are less active -- in fact the GA's are always asking us to reach out to the less active and lukewarm and lost, just as Jesus did to Zacheus.

During this life, the Church is a place for people who have doubts, lack commitment and such, with hopes of helping them repent and get hot about the gospel. Naturally, we'd rather everyone was on fire about the gospel, but I think we all know from experience that never happens. There's always a few who are struggling.

I also think the middle way is sometimes the best compromise for people who have lost their faith, who couldn't get an answer after applying Moroni's promise, or who are suffering from feelings of being stifled or muffled by the really strong norms we have as a religion. Also, for some who have been treated ost terribly by people in the Church or even the official leadership (they make mistakes too, just see Saintish's thread on the Aftermath of a Confession recently). Naturally, I'd like to see people get on fire again and lose the lukewarm attitudes, but sometimes, being lukewarm is the only way for people to stay reconciled with the Church at some level. I know this, because I experienced it myself. Thanks goodness I chose to stay lukewarm or my family might have lost the next generation to some other religion.

With some of the experiences I've had, lukewarm is the hottest temperature I've been able to sustain given the depth of incompetence/harshness I've seen in difficult experiences I've had in the Church. And there have been many that have made people's jaws drop.

[The_Phoenix]

I had the same thought when I lurked at Staylds -- at least, initially.

Personally, I'd rather have people at Church lukewarm than not at Church at all. I was lukewarm for several years and the weekly HP group lessons wore away at my concerns and lifted me back into full activity. If I had've been at home, pursuing my own worldly interests, then such influence would not have been possible.

Also, I think the scripture about being lukewarm might apply to our state of commitment on judgment day rather than our state at times during our mortal probation. I don't see God spewing people out of his mouth when they are less active -- in fact the GA's are always asking us to reach out to the less active and lukewarm and lost, just as Jesus did to Zacheus.

During this life, the Church is a place for people who have doubts, lack commitment and such, with hopes of helping them repent and get hot about the gospel. Naturally, we'd rather everyone was on fire about the gospel, but I think we all know from experience that never happens. There's always a few who are struggling.

I also think the middle way is sometimes the best compromise for people who have lost their faith, who couldn't get an answer after applying Moroni's promise, or who are suffering from feelings of being stifled or muffled by the really strong norms we have as a religion. Also, for some who have been treated ost terribly by people in the Church or even the official leadership (they make mistakes too, just see Saintish's thread on the Aftermath of a Confession recently). Naturally, I'd like to see people get on fire again and lose the lukewarm attitudes, but sometimes, being lukewarm is the only way for people to stay reconciled with the Church at some level. I know this, because I experienced it myself. Thanks goodness I chose to stay lukewarm or my family might have lost the next generation to some other religion.

With some of the experiences I've had, lukewarm is the hottest temperature I've been able to sustain given the depth of incompetence/harshness I've seen in difficult experiences I've had in the Church. And there have been many that have made people's jaws drop.

You have addressed the “lukewarm” scripture; but what of the other? This one concerns our mortal probation. But we are taught in the BoM “that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.”

Alma 34:34

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

[prophetofdoom]

You have addressed the “lukewarm” scripture; but what of the other? This one concerns our mortal probation. But we are taught in the BoM “that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.”

Alma 34:34

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

I used to lurk on some of those sites when I was struggling with my testimony. I think they serve a good service for people who are having a lot of doubts. They encourage people to stay in the church... which might give them a chance to become fully converted.

[Gwen]

“No man who putteth his hand to the plow and looketh back is fit for the kingdom of God” (both the words of Christ), I quote from memory, (BTW, the new changes to LDS.org are not as good for research from the old format, IMHO. Growing up Baptist this was called “backsliding”.

since lukewarm was already addressed..... i think first you have to look at the scripture and what it's talking about. since i've never plowed i'll have to rely on what i've been told about it. if you want to plow in a straight line you have to pick a point and go toward it, always looking at your point. as soon as you look away you will go in another direction.

someone that says "i'm a follower of god" (putteth his hand to the plow) and then never changes anything (looketh back) will never be fit for the kingdom of god.

that's not backsliding it's never having a change of heart. those are the ppl that "get saved" during spring break on the beach between wet t-shirt contests. ppl who have a religion in name only. the ppl that "their lips do honor me but their hearts are far from me" (something like that lol)

backsliding is when you have committed, you start out in a straight line and then for one reason or another you look back or sideways or anywhere else. in the end they won't have plowed a perfectly straight line. at the end of the day can you plant a field on a crocked row? yes, for the most part. can those ppl eventually be fit for the kingdom of god? yes.

backsliding is when you stop part way and delay your journey forward or you take 3 steps forward and 1 back.... you will eventually get there.

Perhaps you won’t be quite perfect, but you can come close enough.I can give you this encouragement: A teacher, trying to explain what a theory is, asked this question: “If you take a letter half the distance to a mailbox and stop, then start over going half the remaining distance and stop, then repeat the process over and over, theoretically will you ever really get to the mailbox?” One bright student said, “No, but you’ll get close enough to mail the letter.”

You young people will get close enough to perfection to have a life that is filled with challenges and troubles, with inspiration and happiness and eternal joy.

The Lord promised, “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.”

Boyd K. Packer, "The Spirit of Revelation" Oct. 1999 General Conf.

if you are trying i don't think the lord will spew you out of his mouth. sometimes lukewarm is the best we have.

Are “lukewarm” members a stumblingblock too both the believer and non-believer?

i find the overzealous that start going off on their own interpretation of the gospel, the ones that are passionate and "on fire" to be a bigger stumbling block than the ones that are doing their best and know they come up short. give me the company of a "lukewarm" member any day.

Is there a “middle way” and should someone “Stay LDS”, under any circumstance?

All have their ups and downs, what are we to do if our doubts get the best of us?

all we can do is our best. that's all that has been asked of us. if my best looks lukewarm to others then so be it. there are many who would probably consider me lukewarm at times. i do know (because i was told) that my branch pres would rather have me at church lukewarm than not at all. how did i answer him when he asked why i stayed? because i don't "know" it's wrong. i don't "know" anyone else is more right. i may not know some of the things i once knew but i don't know a better way. so until i know i'll stay the course. either i'll remember the things i forgot i knew or i'll be shown a better path, but wandering around grasping at straws won't help. this is where i was the last time i felt like life was in order and i was on the right path, so though i doubt i'll stay on this path till i get another answer.

so yes, in my opinion, there are many circumstances in which someone should just take the middle ground and "stay" for the sake of doing it.

Alma 34:34

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

this one isn't about lukewarm or backsliding. this is more applicable to the questions of "can you plan a sin or plan to repent?" "can you consciously sin on the eve of your baptism knowing it will be 'washed away?" "better to ask forgiveness than permission" again this one is about a lack of change of heart and true understanding of the plan, repentance, covenants, etc. it's not about ppl trying and coming up short. if you have a spirit of trying to cheat the system in this life it will posses you in the next. if you have a spirit of doing your best and always moving forward (even if it's slow or little progress) then that same desire and well intentioned efforts will be with you on the other side.

it seems to me you are confusing two different kinds of ppl/situations.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Gwen

[slamjet]

You have addressed the “lukewarm” scripture; but what of the other? This one concerns our mortal probation. But we are taught in the BoM “that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.”

Alma 34:34

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

Yea, if we're lukewarm here, we're lukewarm there. But I suspect that once we get there, the lukewarm may become more hot.

These two sites, from what I've read and scanned through, are more sited of compassion and understanding that the high hopes some people have for the LDS church are dashed when 1) they interact with it's human members and 2) they become questionable about it's beginnings and claims. I'd rather have lukewarm in the church than out. At least they're giving themselves a chance to come to that "aha" moment while still surrounded by the organization.

[blackknight5k]

I don't think "lukewarm" members are a stumbling block, but maybe "lukewarm" members who think they are "hot" and like the speak very publicly about opinions that don't run parallel to those official viewpoints of the church?

[Wingnut]

(BTW, the new changes to LDS.org are not as good for research from the old format, IMHO. Growing up Baptist this was called “backsliding”.

Your best bet for searching the new Church website is to use Google like this:

sites: lds.org beware of pride

Google will then search only the site you list.

It's not backsliding to have some technical difficulties with a search function.

[slamjet]

It's not backsliding to have some technical difficulties with a search function.

It's called new functionality

[HEthePrimate]

I favor a "big tent" approach. There should be room in the Church for different types of people, at different stages of their life. Frankly, I think most people have questions or doubts at one point or another. Rather than berating them or booting them out, we should be their friend, tell them it's ok, and let them work things out. We can try answering their questions as best we can, but it's ok to say we don't know the answers, certainly preferable to making up answers that sound "faith promoting," but aren't true. This just seems more Christlike to me than getting on someone's case for not believing exactly the same as I do. What, really, is the point of judging people?

P.S. I love what Hugh B. Brown said: Excerpts from "A Final Testimony"

Edited March 23, 2011 by HEthePrimate

[NeuroTypical]

I'm a huge fan of minding my own dang business. It's a huge relief that the burden of judging someone else's level of righteousness does not rest on my shoulders. I have sins enough to work on - sitting there confessing other people's sins is just extra effort I don't need.

My biggest test will probably come while giving advice during my daughters' dating years. I pray I'll be able to walk that fine line between appropriate and unrighesous judgment when encountering these [course phrasology deleted] boys my daughters will probably haul home by the truckload.

[Madriglace]

Whether fence sitting, back sliding or luke warm we need to be in church ... that is the only place that these things will change. I had a light bulb come on not long ago ... for the most part the terms we use for the gospel are verbs or should be ... testimony, faith etc .. they all require action. We need to be moving forward to keep us from going back. We are not expected to be perfect in this life ... ain't gonna happen ... we are however expected to be trying ... like one of the GA said (can't remember which) be better today than yesterday, one step at a time. And if we slip get up, dust ourselves off, forgive ourselves and move forward again. Isn't the atonement wonderful!!!!

[prisonchaplain]

I just watched this Why People Leave the LDS ( Mormon ) Church (2005) and found it to be not luke warm, but authentic. The fellow remains active, loves the church for what it is, and wants to live his life for Christ, with the hopes of loving a few strugglers back into the camp of the Church. It would be disappointing that such a one would be deemed lukewarm, lackluster, or somehow "less than."

[jayanna]

It really isn't a good idea to sit in church looking around and deciding who is 'lukewarm'.

Just when you think someone is lukewarm you find out they are dealing with a challenge much more difficult than any you have ever faced.

We have some real doozies in my ward, they are so strong, and they come to church and do not brag or put on any pride about what they have overcome. For some of them just the struggle to get to church one day a week is monumental.

I hope that if it gets to that point for me someday, that someone won't sit in judgement and decided I'm lukewarm, but rather ask if they can help, or even just smile and say they are glad I'm there.

[Mute]

I have recently found two things or sites that cause my mind to wonder. Both of these sites remind me of the scriptures, “I would rather ye be hot or cold, for if ye are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth” and “No man who putteth his hand to the plow and looketh back is fit for the kingdom of God” (both the words of Christ), I quote from memory, (BTW, the new changes to LDS.org are not as good for research from the old format, IMHO. Growing up Baptist this was called “backsliding”.

Do you take a strong stance on every theory you hear? I don't. Why do you need to take a strong belief on something if you don't know the answer? If you asked me if I believed there were parallel universes, I would tell you I don't know but I believe we may find out in the future. If you tell me there are parallel universes and that I'm going to regret it later if I don't strongly believe as you do that there are parallel universes with your individual and particular details of belief (which are not the same as others who happen to believe in parallel universes), does that mean I need to hurry and take a stance on it? I still don't know the answer any better than before and I have no reason to believe anyone else does other than the fact that they said they did. If I have found no conclusive evidence to support one way or the other, why would I take a strong stance saying yes I believe or no I don't believe? Perhaps I have reasons to think it is both possible and impossible but I have found nothing to conclude one way or the other. It reminds me of Indiana Johnes and the Last Crusade but only slightly different. Pick the right invisible cup or face the consequences.

Are “lukewarm” members a stumblingblock too both the believer and non-believer?

I would say no unless you are basing your beliefs off of what other members believe. I'd rather someone tell me they don't know or are unsure on what they believe than tell me they do know if they don't. Honesty is always the best answer.

Is there a “middle way”

I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean is it possible for them to be totally unsure one way or the other as to whether the lds faith is true? Yes absolutely. Do you mean is there a way for a person to reach celestial glory if they are unsure as to whether they believe in the lds faith and are unwilling to commit to such beliefs? If there is a just God and if the lds faith is true, then yes, I would believe they could. You could always try the Epistle of James from the New Testament which reads "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." Maybe you'll get an answer.

and should someone “Stay LDS”, under any circumstance?

They should stay LDS if they believe the lds beliefs are true and that it is a good set of beliefs to live by. If they don't believe this, then I would say they should not be lds. People are unsure of their beliefs for a lot of different reasons. Ultimately, they need to either stay or leave depending on what they feel is the best answer for them.

There are sooo many different factors that can play an effect into why they may not be sure as to what they believe. You need to be able to look at this from the individuals points of view (which is someone who is unsure) and not from the point of view of someone who is a faithful believer in the lds faith. To this person, it may not seem any more logical to stay in the lds faith anymore than it would be to stay in any other. Unless they feel there is more of a chance of the lds faith being true than any other faith/religion, why would the worry about facing damnation or the hope of being rewarded in an after life matter to them? The best thing you could do for someone who is going through this is just to be a friend while they make up their own choice. You can tell them what you believe and why you believe it but I would be very careful in how you help them find the answers they're looking for. It's not an easy thing. You have to be willing to let them make up their own mind. You can't decide this choice for them. No one can but them. People can not grow and learn if you make the choice for them. What you can do is be a friend, be a support and be there for them while they go through this and continue to do so after they make their choice.

All have their ups and downs, what are we to do if our doubts get the best of us?

If your doubts get the best of you, then chances are you will either become an atheist, agnostic or investigate other religions and find one you believe in / like.

[Lost_one]

I had the same thought when I lurked at Staylds -- at least, initially.

Personally, I'd rather have people at Church lukewarm than not at Church at all. I was lukewarm for several years and the weekly HP group lessons wore away at my concerns and lifted me back into full activity. If I had've been at home, pursuing my own worldly interests, then such influence would not have been possible.

Also, I think the scripture about being lukewarm might apply to our state of commitment on judgment day rather than our state at times during our mortal probation. I don't see God spewing people out of his mouth when they are less active -- in fact the GA's are always asking us to reach out to the less active and lukewarm and lost, just as Jesus did to Zacheus.

During this life, the Church is a place for people who have doubts, lack commitment and such, with hopes of helping them repent and get hot about the gospel. Naturally, we'd rather everyone was on fire about the gospel, but I think we all know from experience that never happens. There's always a few who are struggling.

I also think the middle way is sometimes the best compromise for people who have lost their faith, who couldn't get an answer after applying Moroni's promise, or who are suffering from feelings of being stifled or muffled by the really strong norms we have as a religion. Also, for some who have been treated ost terribly by people in the Church or even the official leadership (they make mistakes too, just see Saintish's thread on the Aftermath of a Confession recently). Naturally, I'd like to see people get on fire again and lose the lukewarm attitudes, but sometimes, being lukewarm is the only way for people to stay reconciled with the Church at some level. I know this, because I experienced it myself. Thanks goodness I chose to stay lukewarm or my family might have lost the next generation to some other religion.

With some of the experiences I've had, lukewarm is the hottest temperature I've been able to sustain given the depth of incompetence/harshness I've seen in difficult experiences I've had in the Church. And there have been many that have made people's jaws drop.

You have pretty much said exactly how I feel here.

I would love to be white hot for the church, But I also am lukewarm. I will say one thing though. People are imperfect and I really wish I didn't judge the church itself on the actions of imperfect people. As I said in my other thread. My problem is pride and that pride makes me lukewarm.

[Guest mormonmusic]

You have addressed the “lukewarm” scripture; but what of the other? This one concerns our mortal probation. But we are taught in the BoM “that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.”

Alma 34:34

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

I think the scripture above the quote, in your opening post, about looking back after putting your hand to the plough, may well be referring to people embarking on missionary service, and who, once they start, decide to look back and change their mind. I think the Savior may well have been describing how they are not fit for missionary service -- to encourage people who make a commitment to serve him in that way to count the cost before embarking.

I don't think it means that anyone who has doubts or looks for a different way is unfit for salvation ever -- if that was the case, Peter, who denied the Christ, and a host of other people who faltered along the way would be shut out of the Kingdom forever -- and in that, there is no mercy.

The Alma 34:34 scripture above is referring to judgment day, I believe -- that awful crisis, while the people at StayLDS haven't reached judgment day yet. Hopefully they will gain testimony, increase commitment, or at least, find mercy from God given the challenges they have faced. As the scriptures tell us, God will be fair in his judgments, so everyone will acknowledge his judgments are just. I believe he will be merciful to people who prayed and never got a witness, or who suffered terrible things in the Church and had testimony issues as a result -- He will look at the whole package and judge fairly.

[The_Phoenix]

I favor a "big tent" approach. There should be room in the Church for different types of people, at different stages of their life. Frankly, I think most people have questions or doubts at one point or another. Rather than berating them or booting them out, we should be their friend, tell them it's ok, and let them work things out. We can try answering their questions as best we can, but it's ok to say we don't know the answers, certainly preferable to making up answers that sound "faith promoting," but aren't true. This just seems more Christlike to me than getting on someone's case for not believing exactly the same as I do. What, really, is the point of judging people?

P.S. I love what Hugh B. Brown said: Excerpts from "A Final Testimony"

It already is a “big tent” Church. Some pay tithing some don’t, some are going trough divorce, some not. Even those who are Gay who are living the commandments in relation to the law of chastity. Everyone has doubts about some things, it is healthy. Those who say they have no are lying to themselves. This is why we live by faith, we cannot know everything. But those who are living in rebellion and open sin, who do not seek to better themselves, are in trouble. Those who reject the “Proclamation on the Family”, or seek Priesthood for women, and do not support the Prophet and the twelve are on dangerous ground. I do not relate anyone who does no have doubts from time to time. We are all individuals, we are not drones; diversity abounds within the Church. I teach and there are many differing opinions in class, I enjoy it very much and welcome it. I also enjoy different races in the Church, different color shirts as well. We are a melting pot as well, as the gospel should be. I thank my God for all of these things.

[The_Phoenix]

I'm a huge fan of minding my own dang business. It's a huge relief that the burden of judging someone else's level of righteousness does not rest on my shoulders. I have sins enough to work on - sitting there confessing other people's sins is just extra effort I don't need.

Ditto and Amen!

[The_Phoenix]

It really isn't a good idea to sit in church looking around and deciding who is 'lukewarm'.

I would never do that, I have too many problems of my own. I am just glad that those who struggle are there; as I too struggle.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I would never do that, I have too many problems of my own. I am just glad that those who struggle are there; as I too struggle.

This is a pattern I've noticed -- when people post questions like the OP, about philosophy in general, the question often gets interpreted as if the OP is being judgmental about someone in particular. I don't think Phoenix ever was -- he was asking about the philosophy of the Middle Way in general.

What's interesting, is that responses that infer the OP (opening post) is trying to be judgmental tend to garner a lot of thanks for some reason, which then, in turn, reinforces this kind of erroneous interpretation of judgmental motives in future OP, from any posting member. In fact, some OP's are asking the question because they themselves are considering adopting a particular philosophy, and have no intention of judging others. Or, perhaps they are trying to decide for themselves what they think of the philosophy, or just think it makes interesting discussion. I don't know if that's the case for Phoenix or not, but it's another reason people make OP's like this one -- not because there is intent to judge people.

I only raise this because after a couple years on this discussion forum, I notice this happens very often, this assumption that the OP is out to judge someone rather than simply engage in discussion...and in my view, the assumption is often not correct.

Edited March 24, 2011 by mormonmusic

[The_Phoenix]

This is a pattern I've noticed -- when people post questions like the OP, about philosophy in general, the question often gets interpreted as if the OP is being judgmental about someone in particular. I don't think Phoenix ever was -- he was asking about the philosophy of the Middle Way in general.

What's interesting, is that responses that infer the OP (opening post) is trying to be judgmental tend to garner a lot of thanks for some reason, which then, in turn, reinforces this kind of erroneous interpretation of judgmental motives in future OP, from any posting member. In fact, some OP's are asking the question because they themselves are considering adopting a particular philosophy, and have no intention of judging others. Or, perhaps they are trying to decide for themselves what they think of the philosophy, or just think it makes interesting discussion. I don't know if that's the case for Phoenix or not, but it's another reason people make OP's like this one -- not because there is intent to judge people.

I only raise this because after a couple years on this discussion forum, I notice this happens very often, this assumption that the OP is out to judge someone rather than simply engage in discussion...and in my view, the assumption is often not correct.

Thank you, I do not sit in judgment of anyone. The only time I come close or cross the line is when someone is a public outspoken critic (and lying) concerning my cherished beliefs. Until I am perfect myself (Which will never be in this life), I have no mandate to sit in judgment. I read a similar thread on another site and expanded on it. So I am not pointing fingers at anyone individually, but as you stated questioning certain ideas.

[rameumptom]

We are somewhat taking the the one quote regarding lukewarm out of context. The Lord was referencing an entire church and its bishop as lukewarm and being spewed out of his mouth.

It is better for an individual to be a lukewarm active person than an inactive lukewarm or cold member. Try hometeaching them sometime.

However, for an entire congregation to be lukewarm means they are not doing the important things towards salvation: missionary work, hometeaching, taking care of the poor, temple work, etc. It means even their leaders were not dedicated to the work of the Lord, and so the entire group was basically useless to God, because they were enjoying the benefits of being members, partaking of the sacrament, and meeting weekly; but were not moving His church forward. They were not the city/light on the hill shining forth the gospel light for all to see. Others in the community would think there wasn't much there when it came to the Christians.

Meanwhile, if only a few members are lukewarm, it means there are still several in the congregation and area that are setting a strong example for those around them. There's hope for progress.