Is enough ever enough?

[The_Phoenix]

My wife and I were married at 18 for me 19 for here; (I adopted her daughter, whom she had out of wedlock, who was 18 months) we have always attended church, (with a break after I joined the Army); three years in the Baptist church, and 32 years in the LDS Church. During that time we have served faithfully. She has served in the Primary for 30+ years. I was the youngest High Priest group leader our Ward who was ever been called at 33, then after 5 years, I asked to be released so I could work side jobs to send my daughter on a mission. Then I served as a ward missionary for one year. At the end of that year I was called to be in the Bishopric, in which I served for 3 years. The other 20+ years I have taught Gospel Doctrine and Gospel essentials.

I have done a lot of work on the church for free, including a new pavilion which took three months (I was unemployed at the time). Not to mention the many members I did work on their homes for nothing.

A month ago I volunteered to serve at the Temple opening. I got an e-mail giving my assignment which I was to fulfill: I cannot do it so I begged off. I had surgery some years ago which caused nerve damage to my face. So if I try to shave it hurts; also some nerves being dead as such I cut myself easily, I have tried an electric razor, but end up burning my face. (I have a goatee, which I use a trimmer to keep very short) Even though I would only be parking cars and doing shuttle service, I will not be allowed to serve. I have now given two children to missions (one still serving). So I did not really decline the temple service, I am not allowed to serve.

It would have been cool to work at the open house. But I was told “no exceptions”!

Is enough ever enough?

[pam]

I'm a bit confused. In this thread it seems you are trying to say that you've given so much to the Church that they should make an exception. Yet in another thread you state:

Sorry for having an opinion; don’t worry already cancelled this morning, I am not going to do it.

I feel like this is just another rant on your displeasure or loss of faith in the church.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm a little confused too. The opening sounds like you are explaining many long, faithful years of service, which is actually quite inspiring and exemplary. Then, we move into the open house section. At that point, I get confused about the relationship between the nerve problem in your face, asking not to serve, and not being allowed to serve, and the need for exceptions. On one hand, it sounds like you volunteered, and then decided not to serve after all, but then, need an exception granted for some reason.

And then, the enough is enough part sounds as if someone is demanding that you serve even if you don't want to. So, if you could reword the opening question, I think I could give a more useful response.

[Dravin]

How I read it:

I can't shave. They want all volunteers serving at the temple to be clean shaved. This outrages me.

[Gwen]

i agree it's confusing. what i heard (correct me if i'm wrong) is he's given many faithful yrs to the church. he asked to participate at the temple open house. he gets a letter saying he needs to be clean shaven to serve? he has nerve damage that makes shaving a problem.

the part i'm not clear on is he either decided to serve despite struggling and is now frustrated that he they won't let him because he won't shave or he had decided he won't due to his struggling and is using the shaving as an excuse to say "they won't let me" to validate his feelings/decisions about not doing it and his reasons he's struggling.

phoenix, i have a lot of sympathy for your struggles right now. i do understand this is huge for you. unlike those that have no sympathy to offer and think this is something you should just "get over" i know it doesn't work that way. we all have our battle and go through hard times. it does bother me that it appears, unless i've misunderstood your post, that you are now looking for things to justify your actions. that tells me you aren't at peace with your decisions. i would suggest that because of that you need this experience. if you really have ever had a testimony you need to go, with a heart set on finding the wonderful not the bad. i can promise you if you are looking you will find the bad at such an event (there is a lot of "business" mixed into such events). i also think you could find a lot of good, if you want to. the spirit should also be there.

as for the shaving given it's for one event maybe you could go to a professional barber (it will grow it back out after). would they be able to do it with less injury? sacrifice for the one event going with a heart to get the guidance you need to be at peace with your decision or to find the path you should be on if the decision is not what the lord would have for you.

by the way, does your wife also have the opportunity to participate for the temple open house?

i really think you and your wife need some time to seek the spirit together and seek an answer to this situation. you need to be at peace with the decision. you need each other to have the courage to do whatever it is the lord asks. if you choose not to do the open house maybe make plans to get away from all the daily grind and go to the temple, get into nature after and just be together. ponder, pray, just be without all the noise of the world, seek god and his answer for you.

[Obolus]

If you gave all that service for free, you have no claim on calling "foul". If instead there was a price attached to those acts of service, you need to re-read the manual.

[Suzie]

I would only be parking cars and doing shuttle service, I will not be allowed to serve. I have now given two children to missions (one still serving). So I did not really decline the temple service, I am not allowed to serve.

I am bit confused. They said you cannot served by parking cars and doing shuttle service because you have a beard? Or are you saying you can only served by doing this and nothing more?

If is the first, did you try to explain those in authority your health concerns?

[The_Phoenix]

I'm a bit confused. In this thread it seems you are trying to say that you've given so much to the Church that they should make an exception. Yet in another thread you state:

I feel like this is just another rant on your displeasure or loss of faith in the church.

I did not want anyone to know I was not allowed to help at the Temple because I am unable to shave. Then I decided that some might want to know why I am not doing it. Also, I guess your answer is nothing I do should (or is) be enough, nor my condition matters. I wanted to do this, but despite my service, over the last three + decades it means nothing so suck it up; right. So no matter the circumstances it means nothing.

[The_Phoenix]

I'm a little confused too. The opening sounds like you are explaining many long, faithful years of service, which is actually quite inspiring and exemplary. Then, we move into the open house section. At that point, I get confused about the relationship between the nerve problem in your face, asking not to serve, and not being allowed to serve, and the need for exceptions. On one hand, it sounds like you volunteered, and then decided not to serve after all, but then, need an exception granted for some reason.

And then, the enough is enough part sounds as if someone is demanding that you serve even if you don't want to. So, if you could reword the opening question, I think I could give a more useful response.

I can't shave so, can't serve. However I am being asked to do other things, but not allowed to serve at the Temple. Makes two of us, I am confused as well.

[The_Phoenix]

If you gave all that service for free, you have no claim on calling "foul". If instead there was a price attached to those acts of service, you need to re-read the manual.

What are you talking about; I have done 1,000's of dollars worth of professional services. Not crying 'foul", just asking when I or anyone have done enough. But instead of addressing the OP, I am getting judged.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Well, the short answer is that when it comes to the Church, it's never enough. That's the expectation.

I know, it doesn't always seem fair. In fact I've felt that way myself at times. When I reflect on the huge sacrifices I've had to make to live the gospel myself, and then have had to face some of the things I've had to face and endure without apology or recompense, at times it's really bothered me.

However, doctrinally, people will say the Savior gave far more than any of us are ever expected to, and that we are always indebted to God, and if we wear out our lives serving him we will still be unprofitable servants....etcetera. You've probably heard that before. So, the argument that you've given and given and seem not to get any slack doesn't resonate with people in the Church.

This is one of those times when we really get to feel what it means.

Also, unfortunately, you can't keep track of the thousands of dollars of service you've given, and then expect allowances as a result. Everything is given voluntarily, with no promise of tangible reward given by the temporal arm of the Church, or any relaxation of policies. That would lead to strong entitlement as people get more and more experience in the Church. And entitlement never looks good on anyone in the Church.

My advice -- if you're feeling this way now -- that the Church takes and takes and takes and takes and never gives anything in return, it's time to lay back for a while. I know what it feels like to have your motive for serving shift from serving God, to acting out of a sense of duty. When you start feeling used or taken for granted, and you feel sustained angst about serving in the Church, it's time to retrench and renew until you DO feel you want to serve for its own sake.

So, if I was you, I'd be staying home from the temple assignment (shaving problem a factor or not). I'd try to change how I look at the Church until I felt I could volunteer willingly, and I no longer feel used. I've had those periods of retrenchment, and they are important to your inner peace. I see you need one of those renewal periods now until you start viewing service with happiness again.

I honestly think the ward boundary change is the root of this problem; you're hurting over that, and it's influencing how you look at your relationship with the Church. You need to write out all the reasons you should accept the Ward boundary change willingly, and review them regularly until you feel good about it. This will then change the lens through which you look at your overall service in the Church.

Edited April 11, 2011 by mormonmusic

[Suzie]

I can't shave so, can't serve. However I am being asked to do other things, but not allowed to serve at the Temple. Makes two of us, I am confused as well.

So there is an alternative then and you are being asked to do other things. Then what is the problem?

You know what? I am probably one of the few that think the whole beard issue in Church or temple is very, very, very silly (my opinion) However they make the policies (not you or me) and since you are the one that offered to volunteer, you have to pretty much accept the conditions they give.

[mightynancy]

I'm with Suzie. The whole beard business is absolutely ridiculous.

[The_Phoenix]

So there is an alternative then and you are being asked to do other things. Then what is the problem?

You know what? I am probably one of the few that think the whole beard issue in Church or temple is very, very, very silly (my opinion) However they make the policies (not you or me) and since you are the one that offered to volunteer, you have to pretty much accept the conditions they give.

I am not being asked to do anything at the Temple, but at Church. No one there seems to care what I look like.

[FunkyTown]

I am not being asked to do anything at the Temple, but at Church. No one there seems to care what I look like.

YAY! You get to volunteer at church? That's fantastic. Congratulations.

Wait... Maybe I'm misunderstanding. You offered to volunteer. They said, 'Yes, but the temple requires you to be clean shaven. However, we would love to have you work in the chapel'. This then offended you.

Is that correct?

If so, I might suggest getting a bit thicker skin might be the way to go.

[The_Phoenix]

YAY! You get to volunteer at church? That's fantastic. Congratulations.

Wait... Maybe I'm misunderstanding. You offered to volunteer. They said, 'Yes, but the temple requires you to be clean shaven. However, we would love to have you work in the chapel'. This then offended you.

Is that correct?

If so, I might suggest getting a bit thicker skin might be the way to go.

I might want to think I don't belong here. I thought i was among brothers ans sisters.

[FunkyTown]

I might want to think I don't belong here. I thought i was among brothers ans sisters.

So my suggestion that you get thicker skin was met by you being offended?

That's like someone telling someone else, "You might want to think about anger management classes." and the other person roaring in rage and punching them. I mean... Sure, the guy should have expected it, but it doesn't mean it's bad advice.

[The_Phoenix]

So my suggestion that you get thicker skin was met by you being offended?

That's like someone telling someone else, "You might want to think about anger management classes." and the other person roaring in rage and punching them. I mean... Sure, the guy should have expected it, but it doesn't mean it's bad advice.

No, I have just figured out that questioning someone’s faith (mine), or struggling is not the thing to do among any faith. Everyone goes on the attack when you do so. Doubting is unforgivable on any Mormon or Christian site. So say what you like. I will take part in discussions when someone doubts and try to show some compassion. Either way, I don’t have all the answers are others seem too.

I though coming here might strengthen my faith, and I would be among friends. I was wrong.

[FunkyTown]

No, I have just figured out that questioning someone’s faith (mine), or struggling is not the thing to do among any faith. Everyone goes on the attack when you do so. Doubting is unforgivable on any Mormon or Christian site. So say what you like. I will take part in discussions when someone doubts and try to show some compassion. Either way, I don’t have all the answers are others seem too.

I though coming here might strengthen my faith, and I would be among friends. I was wrong.

No, no. It's okay to doubt and to struggle. We all do. Sometimes, we deal with depression. Sometimes we deal with fears.

All of that's fine.

And you are among friends.

Friends don't mollycoddle you, though. If you're being silly, they'll point out you're being silly. If you're the type of person to demand friends acquiesce to your every whim and say "Oh, you poor thing. They won't let you work in the temple when you have whiskers on your chin? THE CADS!" then you probably don't have a lot of close friends.

You're being silly right now. You're in a self-indulgent pity party, desperate for other people to tell you how it's your every right. I'm not going to condescend to you like that. Not when the only thing it would do is cause you to feel justified in your pity party.

We all feel like you do sometimes. Just know that you have to work past it. When we do, we have to shake our heads at our own silliness and realize that life isn't as bad as all that. It's actually pretty darned awesome. :)

[The_Phoenix]

No, no. It's okay to doubt and to struggle. We all do. Sometimes, we deal with depression. Sometimes we deal with fears.

All of that's fine.

And you are among friends.

Friends don't mollycoddle you, though. If you're being silly, they'll point out you're being silly. If you're the type of person to demand friends acquiesce to your every whim and say "Oh, you poor thing. They won't let you work in the temple when you have whiskers on your chin? THE CADS!" then you probably don't have a lot of close friends.

You're being silly right now. You're in a self-indulgent pity party, desperate for other people to tell you how it's your every right. I'm not going to condescend to you like that. Not when the only thing it would do is cause you to feel justified in your pity party.

We all feel like you do sometimes. Just know that you have to work past it. When we do, we have to shake our heads at our own silliness and realize that life isn't as bad as all that. It's actually pretty darned awesome. :)

I am not sure I will get past this; methinks I am done with any faith. Life is hard and then you die; my new motto. Back to my pity party.

[Wingnut]

No, I have just figured out that questioning someone’s faith (mine), or struggling is not the thing to do among any faith. Everyone goes on the attack when you do so. Doubting is unforgivable on any Mormon or Christian site. So say what you like. I will take part in discussions when someone doubts and try to show some compassion. Either way, I don’t have all the answers are others seem too.

I though coming here might strengthen my faith, and I would be among friends. I was wrong.

But you're not questioning faith. You're whining and complaining and being a martyr.

[bytor2112]

Reading between the lines....sounds like more than not being allowed to serve in the Temple because of facial hair is at work here? Two brethren in our Ward recently became Veil workers and had to shave their beards...one had a beard for over thirty years. I think sometimes we just need a break, even from service in the church. The Lord knows where your heart is and maybe some time off from callings will serve to recharge your batteries.

[estradling75]

You've had three threads now... All for the same general pity party principal. And we do understand and we do sympathize. We also know that when times get darkest and we struggle the most it can be hard to remember the important things of the gospel. So in these three thread you have gotten sympathy (Yeap sometime our local leader do things we do not like) and the reminders to hold on.

However you see the reminders as personal attacks as if we do not care... The only reason that I can think of for this is that you are not looking for help staying on the Plan of Happiness, instead I think you are looking for justification to stray. To do it your way instead. You are looking for someone to pat you on the shoulder and say it ok to let go of the rod of iron, it ok to stop enduring, its ok to stumble and fall and not get back up.

The problem is that justifying you sinning, hurting yourself, and taking the harder path is not something that a true friend or someone that really cares does. We can understand the appeal of that path, and we can respect your right to choose to take it, but we have to try to wave you off that path if we can.

[Gwen]

phoenix,

it's not generally a good sign when ppl can't see the sympathetic comments. i've offered sympathy in all three threads and what i thought were kind advise/suggestions. yes some ppl have been harsh and blunt in their comments and i agree some have been down right rude. but in the end you seem to have ignored all my comments (as well as those that have been like mine) and only responded to those that "attacked" you.

that response tends to be a red flag that someone isn't serious about wanting advise or a solution. the bottom line is you aren't at peace with your decision so you seem to have become angry. that's never a good road. i hope you can shift your focus a little to find some solutions you can be at peace with. it doesn't have to be the answer anyone here thinks is best for you, just what you can be at peace with. by the way, throwing your hands up and walking away mad isn't being at peace. if you leave the church do it the right way, for the right reasons. make sure, in the end, your life is better for it.

[SeekerofTruth]

No, I have just figured out that questioning someone’s faith (mine), or struggling is not the thing to do among any faith. Everyone goes on the attack when you do so. Doubting is unforgivable on any Mormon or Christian site. So say what you like. I will take part in discussions when someone doubts and try to show some compassion. Either way, I don’t have all the answers are others seem too.

I though coming here might strengthen my faith, and I would be among friends. I was wrong.

Uhm actually doubting is not unforgivable in christian site. i don't know what your experiences have been but I am one to tell you that as a follower of Christ and believer in God doubt is my greatest struggles but one that I am glad to have because it challenges me. Any christian that tells me doubting is horrible and I need to not do that is not someone I go to for advice.

Pardon my intrusion, I know I'm not LDS but honestly this is an issue that I see among non-LDS individuals as well within the Christian churches. It breaks my heart. So many of you I'm reading are responding with "rules are rules" honestly, I don't know if Jesus would even necessarily agree to that response. Why? Luke 6:1-11

1And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. 2And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? 3And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him; 4How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? 5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 6And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. 7And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. 8But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth. 9Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? 10And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 11And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus.

something as trivial as shaving I don't know, maybe it is my misunderstanding of the LDS Church, but it is not something that should keep someone from serving.

I honestly believe this guy has a right to be hurt about stuff. I've been burned by the church many times so I sympathize with you. However I continue to serve where I believe God has called me to serve. Sometimes it hasn't always been in the church and I have found God has been able to work better through my life on account of that.

However, I also agree with everyone that I think he is just venting as well and is not ready to hear advice. We should probably just back off and pray for him.

And MormonMusic is right as well in saying where your motives lay. God looks at the heart of a man not his actions. Though sometimes I just wish the churches I have dealt with would be willing to see that too. No one is exempt from God's judgement, especially the church. bleh.

Again, pardon my intrusion. I hope things look up for your Phoenix and your heart changes from serving the church to serving God and not being effected by how the church treats you on account of that. Keep running for God's Will and His Gospel.