Branch President arrested, faces deportation

[Suzie]

DRAPER — A local leader of an LDS Church Spanish-speaking congregation who faces deportation unwittingly finds himself in the sights of Latino activists looking to further their position in the ongoing illegal immigration debate.

Immigrations agents arrested Felix Joaquin Callejas-Hernandez, his wife and two teenage children April 19 and they all now face deportation to their native El Salvador. Callejas served as president of the Eastridge 9th Branch in Draper until his release last week.

Callejas-Hernandez, 53, remains incarcerated in the Utah County Jail. His wife Luca Margarita Castillo de Callejas, 52; son Jose Moroni Callejas-Castillo, 19; and daughter Margarita Concepcion Callejas-Castillo, 18, were allowed to go home April 22, according to jail records.

"My understanding is they didn't commit any crimes," said Latino community activist Tony Yapias.

How the family came to be in arrested was not released, but U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement routinely jails people with deportation orders who haven't left the country...

Immigration officials may deport Mormon branch president and family | Deseret News

I would like your view on the following:

1. Do you think the Church should personally intervene in a case like this? (since this brother was a Church leader).

2. How do you feel about illegal immigrants being called in a position of leadership such as Branch Presidents or Bishops? (where they must evaluate the worthiness of other members, including honesty) What about having a temple recommend?

3. Will your view change for question #2 if you knew the illegal immigrant leader is using stolen SSN or other documents belonging to a US citizen? (identity theft)

5. How do we balance obedience of the laws of the land with compassion towards others in need?

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't see how the Church can intervene. The legal process has done its work; the Church can't help this guy anymore than it could help a bishop who had been embezzling tithing funds, or a stake president who had been molesting a young girl.

I'm personally uncomfortable with the Church choosing acknowledged lawbreakers for the ministry; but I guess it comes back to whether you believe the choice lies with the Church or with God Himself. If the latter, just goes to show that the Lord has use for all of us even if we aren't quite perfect.

I've been on the receiving end of ID theft--and it stinks--but I wonder how many illegals are actually hijacking the IDs of living people (versus just "recycling" the social security numbers of dead people which are readily obtainable online through the SSDI, or just making up random numbers which may not correspond to anyone at all).

Balancing obedience to law with compassion? The two oughtn't to be mutually exclusive. The thing with regard to immigration is, "need" is often a slippery term. Like that Argentine family in SLC that was deported a few months back in spite of the dad protesting up and down that his family had suffered from anti-Mormon persecution in Buenos Aires, and (by implication) that there wasn't a single place in his entire homeland where he could practice his religion safely. Puh-leeze. Guys like him do a grave disservice to true political refugees; and it makes the Church look like a bunch of schmucks for taking him seriously.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[Blocky]

1. How would the church be able to intervene? Pulling strings behind closed doors or the same route as anyone else?

2. We follow the law of the land. At the same time some people practice civil disobedience to things they are morally object to, does that make it ok? Since holding a temple recommend seems to be the golden judgment stick of how bad something is, yes, you can be an illegal immigrant and hold a temple recommend. You can also use medical marijuana even though it's illegal on the federal level and have a recommend. There are a lot of individual situations that aren't black and white.

3. I wish I could give a more definite answer. At that point it gets into the details. If someones id is stolen and their credit gets messed up, along with their ss... that does make things worse. In general I'm in favor of stricter enforcement of immigration laws. On the other side, the many people I know who are breaking laws being here, I'm not loosing any sleep over them personally. Still, I have a lot of respect for the people who did it the long, legal, hard way of becoming a citizen.

I guess after all this rambling, someones immigration status doesn't affect my support of church leadership. There are times when you can break a law and not sin.

[RipplecutBuddha]

Immigration officials may deport Mormon branch president and family | Deseret News

I would like your view on the following:

1. Do you think the Church should personally intervene in a case like this? (since this brother was a Church leader).

2. How do you feel about illegal immigrants being called in a position of leadership such as Branch Presidents or Bishops? (where they must evaluate the worthiness of other members, including honesty) What about having a temple recommend?

3. Will your view change for question #2 if you knew the illegal immigrant leader is using stolen SSN or other documents belonging to a US citizen? (identity theft)

5. How do we balance obedience of the laws of the land with compassion towards others in need?

1. Not at all because the Church is firmly set to obey the laws of every nation in which it is located. If we claim such a stance, we must stand by it consistently.

2. People are imperfect no matter what calling they hold. I had a bishop who was unemployed three times. Life happens.

3. Nope.

4. What happened to #4???

5. Mercy cannot rob justice. It is an eternal principle.

I am absolutely in favor of legal immigration from wherever people may come from. However, if their desire is to enjoy living in a nation that allows greater freedom than the nation of their birth, then it is only common sense that they must honor the laws that provide and protect that freedom for its citizens. To flaunt the law in order to get the benefits of the law is hypocritical and contradictory in very thought.

Edited May 1, 2011 by RipplecutBuddha

[MarginOfError]

1. Like JAG said, not much the Church can do.

2. Don't care. My understanding and the assumption I base my immigration opinions on is that a lot of these people have very little hope of making ends meet and caring for their families in their home countries. If I were given the choice of watching my family suffer in poverty or illegally emigrating to another country, I'd be emigrating. It actually really annoys me when people play the "obey the laws of the land" card because it entirely ignores the nuance of the "provide the necessities of life" charge.

3. No, because of my answer to #2. There are two kinds of identity theft. One seeks to rob the owner of their wealth, the other seeks to hide the thief from detection. I'm willing to look the other way on the latter until we can get better laws in place.

5. By changing the stupid laws, as the Church has endorsed in Utah.

[pam]

Thank you MOE

[Suzie]

4. What happened to #4???

I think I meant to put more questions and somehow I got it mix up.

[Suzie]

If someones id is stolen and their credit gets messed up, along with their ss... that does make things worse.

I think that's my main issue.

[Suzie]

3. No, because of my answer to #2. There are two kinds of identity theft. One seeks to rob the owner of their wealth, the other seeks to hide the thief from detection. I'm willing to look the other way on the latter until we can get better laws in place.

What about the first one?

[Backroads]

1. Do you think the Church should personally intervene in a case like this? (since this brother was a Church leader).

2. How do you feel about illegal immigrants being called in a position of leadership such as Branch Presidents or Bishops? (where they must evaluate the worthiness of other members, including honesty) What about having a temple recommend?

3. Will your view change for question #2 if you knew the illegal immigrant leader is using stolen SSN or other documents belonging to a US citizen? (identity theft)

5. How do we balance obedience of the laws of the land with compassion towards others in need?

1. I don't think the Church can intervene, and I don't think they should. This is law of the land. The Church can be there for emotional support and whatnot.

2. It happens all the time. Separation of church and state. The Church should obey the laws but I don't think the law has any right to determine who the church calls to any position nor whom gets a temple recommend. Honesty is a tricky thing when it comes to illegal immigration.

3. Yes, I would change my view. This is pure theft.

4. I like ice cream.

5. Compassion does not equate ignoring laws. Not to be controversial, but I think we have plenty of people in the U.S. we should be compassionate to before worrying about illegal immigrants. LIke I said in #1, we can be there with emotional support. Heck, we can research laws. But sometimes life happens.

Edited May 1, 2011 by john doe
fixed quote function

[mightynancy]

Love this:

There are times when you can break a law and not sin.

but I think we have plenty of people in the U.S. we should be compassionate to before worrying about illegal immigrants

This makes me uncomfortable. Are not all people my brothers and sisters? On which side of a manmade line they were born means nothing to me.

[Just_A_Guy]

Love this:

This makes me uncomfortable. Are not all people my brothers and sisters? On which side of a manmade line they were born means nothing to me.

I think it boils down to how we deploy our limited resources the most effectively.

[skippy740]

Temple Recommend question: Are you honest in all your dealings?

To me, that encompasses law, business, taxes, government... everything.

How can you be honest in your dealings when you break the law to be here?

If you break one law and rationalize it, how well can you be an effective judge in Israel?

The church is not in the immigration status business. And the temple recommend question can be subject to interpretation.

Basically, it's not the church's fault.

[MarginOfError]

What about the first one?

Then it should be prosecuted.

My indifference to the second form of identity theft is that it usually involves a recycled social security number. The thief uses it to justify employment and then pays into social security and medicare. The thief usually can't file for a tax refund without being found out, so on the whole, they're contributing more to the pot than they're taking. And they aren't robbing someone blind either. It's almost (but not quite) a win-win.

[MarginOfError]

Temple Recommend question: Are you honest in all your dealings?

To me, that encompasses law, business, taxes, government... everything.

How can you be honest in your dealings when you break the law to be here?

If you break one law and rationalize it, how well can you be an effective judge in Israel?

The church is not in the immigration status business. And the temple recommend question can be subject to interpretation.

Basically, it's not the church's fault.

Again, I point out

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

and pit that against

Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families.

A very essential part of being a judge in Israel is not determining right and wrong based on uni-dimensional interpretations of a single rule, but in determining the righteousness and worthiness of an individual's decisions when the rules seem to conflict. I would submit that those who had to break a law to provide the necessities of life for their families are probably in a better position to judge than those who have never had to face such tragic nuance.

[rameumptom]

The Church has expressed its views on immigration. I agree fully with them. Our system is an insane system that hurts both legal and illegal immigrants AND the American public. We were created as a nation by immigrants. Immigration is our lifeblood. It is one symptom of our slow collapse as a nation that we cannot welcome these people with open arms. Imagine if the Nephites refused to accept the Ammonites because of an anti-immigration attitude!

I serve in a Spanish branch in my city. Many of our members are not here legally. It prevents many from serving in Scouting (requires a background check), simply because they do not have a legal social security number. These members are as humble and holy as you and I are, but they are being persecuted over stupid laws. Let's have our law enforcement spend time getting the drug dealers and murderers, not branch presidents.

1. Do you think the Church should personally intervene in a case like this? (since this brother was a Church leader).

It isn't the Church's responsibility to intervene. There is no legal recourse for them to take.

2. How do you feel about illegal immigrants being called in a position of leadership such as Branch Presidents or Bishops? (where they must evaluate the worthiness of other members, including honesty) What about having a temple recommend?

I have no problem with it. These are good people being placed in a difficult position. Do you stay in your own country and watch your children starve? Or do you seek opportunity where you can?

3. Will your view change for question #2 if you knew the illegal immigrant leader is using stolen SSN or other documents belonging to a US citizen? (identity theft)

No. We force them into that situation. It would be extremely easy for us to create a guest worker program for them, and document all of them.

5. How do we balance obedience of the laws of the land with compassion towards others in need?

We change the laws. When laws are bad, we change them. When laws made it legal to have blacks as slaves, we had the responsibility to seek to change those laws.

[Backroads]

I serve in a Spanish branch in my city. Many of our members are not here legally. It prevents many from serving in Scouting (requires a background check), simply because they do not have a legal social security number. These members are as humble and holy as you and I are, but they are being persecuted over stupid laws.

It sounds like you are making the Scouting thing to sound like its an LDS thing when the LDS is merely a subscriber to Scouting. The Church can call illegal immigrants to various positions, but they legally are required to tell their Scout executives of the situation in order to get a ssn-less background check, I'm sorry to say, if they want somebody in Scouting. I'm sorry to say it's due to a lot of pressure and lawsuits that's the way it is in Scouting. And I'm sure you're all grateful for those backgrounds checks, though we had last week a ward bishop who called up and swore at me because his new scoutmaster's background revealed a felony involving children. Like it was my fault.

Anyway, what I"m saying is that the Church can't be involved in everything.

[Guest]

Guys - I'm an immigrant. I come from the Philippines - a 3rd World Country in a worse state than Mexico. We just happen to be separated from the United States by a giant ocean.

There are thousands of Filipinos waiting in line to get their visas. They can't get them. Because - America is already full - a lot of whom are illegals.

Why can't America have open borders? Because you have welfare and SS/Medicare and you have over 10% unemployment rate. These starving folks won't come to the USA and become rich in a day. They will take welfare or starve until they find a good-enough paying job that is higher than what one can get with welfare. Or they work for rock-bottom wages to get the job - which increases unemployment rate. My mother became an American citizen in February - she's a senior citizen. She became eligible for SS/Medicare on day one - having worked for less than a year for minimum wage at K-mart!

So now you say - they have starving children! They deserve to do things the illegal way.

Okay, so basically, what you're saying is - Mexico just happens to be right next-door - we would love to feed their starving children. You Filipinos - you just sit there in line trying to find the legal way in - that is now at a 5-year waiting list because the unemployment rate is at 10% - so we only take in Filipino nurses with Bachelor's degrees and Manny Pacquiao's entourage. We don't care enough about you!

You guys are bleeding hearts. Nothing wrong about that except that you are MYOPIC bleeding hearts! GIVE THE HARD-WORKING STARVING FILIPINOS A CHANCE!

Edited May 2, 2011 by anatess

[rameumptom]

It sounds like you are making the Scouting thing to sound like its an LDS thing when the LDS is merely a subscriber to Scouting. The Church can call illegal immigrants to various positions, but they legally are required to tell their Scout executives of the situation in order to get a ssn-less background check, I'm sorry to say, if they want somebody in Scouting. I'm sorry to say it's due to a lot of pressure and lawsuits that's the way it is in Scouting. And I'm sure you're all grateful for those backgrounds checks, though we had last week a ward bishop who called up and swore at me because his new scoutmaster's background revealed a felony involving children. Like it was my fault.

Anyway, what I"m saying is that the Church can't be involved in everything.

Sorry, we've looked into it here with our Council. Such a background check is only done for legal immigrants without an SSN. Perhaps in Utah they bend the rules, but in the real America, they do not. I agree that it is a Scout rule, but there are other ways to perform background checks.

[Backroads]

Sorry, we've looked into it here with our Council. Such a background check is only done for legal immigrants without an SSN. Perhaps in Utah they bend the rules, but in the real America, they do not. I agree that it is a Scout rule, but there are other ways to perform background checks.

I should have clarified legal as in "Scouting Legal". There are situations where the background check will be done with situations, but it's up to the Council first and foremost.

I'll give you a rundown of just how we go about doing a background check without an SSN (more or less). I can't do it at my office without an SSN, which means it's up to National BSA to perform. All they need is the person's information (which is on their Scouting profile) and our approval they can do whatever needs to be done in order to obtain a satisfactory background check. But the approval MUST come from the council, who MUST have a satisfactory reason (to him) to perform the check.

Frankly, since it's all through National BSA, I don't know what individual states would have to do with anything, so it might behoove you to not attack me and my state.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Backroads

[Backroads]

Guys - I'm an immigrant. I come from the Philippines - a 3rd World Country in a worse state than Mexico. We just happen to be separated from the United States by a giant ocean.

There are thousands of Filipinos waiting in line to get their visas. They can't get them. Because - America is already full - a lot of whom are illegals.

Why can't America have open borders? Because you have welfare and SS/Medicare and you have over 10% unemployment rate. These starving folks won't come to the USA and become rich in a day. They will take welfare or starve until they find a good-enough paying job that is higher than what one can get with welfare. Or they work for rock-bottom wages to get the job - which increases unemployment rate. My mother became an American citizen in February - she's a senior citizen. She became eligible for SS/Medicare on day one - having worked for less than a year for minimum wage at K-mart!

So now you say - they have starving children! They deserve to do things the illegal way.

Okay, so basically, what you're saying is - Mexico just happens to be right next-door - we would love to feed their starving children. You Filipinos - you just sit there in line trying to find the legal way in - that is now at a 5-year waiting list because the unemployment rate is at 10% - so we only take in Filipino nurses with Bachelor's degrees and Manny Pacquiao's entourage. We don't care enough about you!

You guys are bleeding hearts. Nothing wrong about that except that you are MYOPIC bleeding hearts! GIVE THE HARD-WORKING STARVING FILIPINOS A CHANCE!

While I love the Filipinos, what about all the already starving people in America? What makes those from Mexico superior to them and their needs?

I get it. My father-in-law employs Peruvians in his quarry. He goes through all he needs to get them their work visas and whatnot. I understand that people come to this country because they really have no other choice. It's sad and my heart goes out to them.

But what about those starving while waiting for legal permission?

Yes, we can certainly change the laws, but that is not going to really affect the current strain on the system.

[Guest]

While I love the Filipinos, what about all the already starving people in America?

They can vote themselves some money...

/tongue firmly in cheek

[Backroads]

They can vote themselves some money...

/tongue firmly in cheek

LOVE IT!

Seriously though, no offense made; I just believe in fixing the most immediate problems first.

[Guest]

LOVE IT!

Seriously though, no offense made; I just believe in fixing the most immediate problems first.

In all seriousness, I see your point but if you bring that example back to the basics - just like the Christian principle of "whoever puts themselves first will be last and whoever loses themselves shall be found" or however that phrase went...

A nation can gain a much better perspective when they go beyond their boundaries. Charity never faileth because the lessons learned from going outside yourselves in service strengthens within.

The Philippines - you would laugh when you see the local military. Yet, after 9/11 the Philippines sent a force to the desert to fight with the Americans. So, they were wearing jungle fatigues in the dunes... but hey... they represented! We can't wallow in our own misery. We have to branch out to put everything into perspective. Because - no matter how poor the Philippines is - there is always something to be grateful for. And having the American military hand the Filipinos their independence in a silver platter will never be forgotten. So that, even in the midst of our struggles we still find the strength to send our jungle-trained military to the desert!

It is the same for America. You think you have poor people. You really don't get to understand what poor means until you serve some of them in the Philippines... or Darfur... or wherever.

[Just_A_Guy]

The Philippines - you would laugh when you see the local military. Yet, after 9/11 the Philippines sent a force to the desert to fight with the Americans. So, they were wearing jungle fatigues in the dunes... but hey... they represented! We can't wallow in our own misery. We have to branch out to put everything into perspective. Because - no matter how poor the Philippines is - there is always something to be grateful for. And having the American military hand the Filipinos their independence in a silver platter will never be forgotten. So that, even in the midst of our struggles we still find the strength to send our jungle-trained military to the desert!

Which is even more remarkable given that Insurrection unpleasantness.