Worried about temple rec. interview with stake president

[Scylla]

I decided to delurk because I am worried about my upcoming temple recommend interview on Sunday with the stake president. Endowments and temple marriage.

As background....I'm an older single gal (30s). I have struggled with masturbation off and on over the years since my later 20s. Sometimes it would be months...in later years, it's been around once a week, I would guess, on average. Beat myself up about it throughout.

I had confessed this to more than one bishop over the years. The last bishop I talked to (the one before this) ...he just said work on doing it less. That's all. So I try to do it less than once a week. I didn't succeed always. I have a high libido and....it's not easy. Especially since the fellow and I get frustrated since we can't do anything.

I've also had some chastity problems with the fiance before, though we did go in and work through it and have been better.

I'm about to be married in less than a month. I had my interview with my bishop already, since he was going on vacation (and is there now) and I was going to go home before the wedding to finish up details. I felt ok saying yes to the chastity question, though I hadn't mentioned the masturbation part to him before. I had thought before that I might bring it up, but it didn't happen during the interview and I felt ok about it.

However, I just slipped up and did it again since that interview. Now I am freaked out. It's still less overall...one time in 3 weeks, but its close to the interview. If I have to wear a chastity belt, I'll make sure it doesn't happen before my endowments so it will be a month by then.

I took the sacrament the Sunday after, and talked with Heavenly Father during that time. I felt more peaceful about it. I've also been praying a lot. I feel peaceful about it sometimes...I do. I pour out my heart. But sometimes it goes back to huge waves of doubt.

I am having a hard time discerning between the feelings of guilt and not feeling worthy enough for the temple -- I keep feeling like I have to be perfect -- and the fact that I am having a roller coaster hormonal ride (new birth control that leaves me weepy and overemotional), stress, and lack of sleep. Sometimes when I read things online, pray about it, etc, I do feel peace that it's ok, since I've been trying, that's enough. Other times I'm crying in my fiance's arms and wondering what's going to happen if the stake prez says I can't go.

He (fiance) doesn't think it's a serious enough sin to have to go to the Bishop, having been told before by a bishop that you didn't need to. (you still repent, just work it out with the Lord. I've been doing a lot of talking to Him, that's for sure!) And I've read such a varying spectrum...some bishops like that one I had saying Just try to be better, or ones who just won't give you a recommend if you are doing it at all. Some bishops saying yes, it's something you have to talk to them about, some saying no, you don't. I don't know the stake president, so I have no idea how this will go.

I freak out that now I'll not be able to get a recommend. Can't talk to the bishop before since he's not around. I'm running out of time so I can't really postpone it. If it comes to it, we'll just have a civil wedding before the reception instead of the ring ceremony and work on the temple later.

I don't know...I just feel so emotional lately. I just don't know what to believe in my mind anymore. I do feel calm sometimes, and other times I am in a tizzy. Sometimes I don't feel like I need to mention it, since it's still less than before, and since I've been talking it over with Heavenly Father so much. Sometimes I feel I should.

Help? Thanks.

[tubaloth]

To me, this post is trying to Justify what you did? That really isn't want the Internet was created for. How about you take this post and read it in your stake president interview and see what he thinks? You have already got the words, now you just need somebody with the AUTHORITY to hear them. It comes down to this

1. Do you keep the Law of Chasity? (YES or NO?)

2. 43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Part of the repentenc process is forsaking the sin, this is a struggle you have. But if you feel you have trully repented, then you confess them. Part of Confessing is showing humility. You are not repenting because of your fiance, or your Bishop, or because of your Stake President. You are repenting because you want to return to your Heavenly Father.

What if you read this post to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, what answer to you think they would give?

Edited May 10, 2011 by tubaloth

[Scylla]

I'm not trying to justify it... I just have such conflicting thoughts in a stressful period in my life and I just can't discern what's me beating myself up, what's Satan trying to drag me down, what's things I need to take care of. I've been confessing it all out to the Lord and I am not going to do it before the temple. And yes, I am repenting because I want to return to Him. Not sure where you got the idea I didn't.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Scylla

[skippy740]

The Adversary works especially hard on people right before they have their own living ordinances done in the temple. Be aware of this.

The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. What's required is a broken heart and a contrite spirit, not perfection.

It's more important to know that you are attending the temple having confessed everything than to harbor any feeling that you think you attend unworthily.

[serenity123]

I don't think she's trying to justify it.

I know the church is against masturbation, but my super active mother always told me it's okay. Although I'm sure others won't agree, I'm sure there are some LDS who do think it's not that awful. Personally, I don't think it's one of those things you need to confess to the Bishop. I think you can pray to the Lord for repentence on this one.

[Backroads]

I didn't sense any justification in this, either. Just... asking. Which is fine.

However, I really do like the idea of telling what you told us to the stake prez. We could sit here and argue over just how bad it is, but what it comes down to is that YOU aren't feeling all that great about it.

[Suzie]

Well, the fact that you created this thread tells me it's bothering you. Talk to your SP.

[Saguaro]

If I were you, I wouldn't talk to the stake president, work it out between yourself and the Lord. You're obviously trying, you've made it this far, and you're going to be married soon and you'll be able to act freely on your libido with no guilt whatsoever. Remember your last bishop's advice, it sounds like you've been following that, if he didn't think you needed to see your stake president then, why should you now? Personally I think we demonize masturbation too much in the church.

[skippy740]

We are all free to have opinions. However, we must also know and follow the direction that the Brethren of the Church has laid out for us.

A Parent’s Guide Chapter 5: Teaching Adolescents: from Twelve to Eighteen Years

One example: masturbation is considered by many in the world to be the harmless expression of an instinctive sex drive. Teach your children that the prophets have condemned it as a sin throughout the ages and that they can choose not to do it. Throughout childhood, boys and girls have touched their own genitals frequently to wash and to dress. This is a behavior that usually has the same meaning as keeping one’s feet warm in the winter, enjoying a swim on a hot day, or scratching an itch. We ought to be friendly to our bodies and appreciate the body’s marvelous range of senses. This innocent touching is not the kind of behavior warned against by prophets through the ages. The sin of masturbation occurs when a person stimulates his or her own sex organs for the purpose of sexual arousal. It is a perversion of the body’s passions. When we pervert these passions and intentionally use them for selfish, immoral purposes, we become carnal.

Masturbation is not physically necessary. There is already a way by which the male system relieves excessive spermatic fluid quite regularly through the nocturnal emission or wet dream. Monthly menstrual flow expels the female’s egg and cleanses the womb. For both sexes, physical or emotional tensions can be released by vigorous activity. Thus, in a biological sense, masturbation for either gender is not necessary. In a gospel sense, it is a sin: “Masturbation, a rather common indiscretion, is not approved of the Lord nor of His Church regardless of what may have been said by others whose ‘norms’ are lower. Latter-day Saints are urged to avoid this practice” (Spencer W. Kimball, Love Versus Lust, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year [Provo, 5 Jan. 1965], p. 22).

There are more references on LDS.org that are consistent with this one.

Violations of the Law of Chastity needs to be resolved with the proper local priesthood authority.

[serenity123]

skippy, I am not denying the church's standpoint and I like the reference you provided. However, my point is that I really, realllly don't think she needs to speak to the stake president about this. The church has a position on cursing and that is a sin, but do you need to go to the bishop for that? No. You can pray for repentance to the Lord. From what I gathered in her post, she feels masturbation is wrong and is trying to stop. She slipped up once and is not planning on making a habit of it again. She is sorry. She feels bad. I just do NOT think this needs to be brought in confession face to face with someone in authority at church. I really believe this can be kept between her and the Lord and that she is just fine.

[skippy740]

This was something I personally spoke to my Bishop and Stake President before entering the temple and going on my mission. That's my experience.

[GoodMormonGirl]

Hmmm I would't waste precious time talking the SP about this non issue!

I get very annoyed with How Mormons think...let me assure you you are not sinned.

That said I can't imagine how masturbation is a sin...I mean being a human is just sin in a nutshell, how do you decide which sin is sin and which one God is ok with!

TO him it is all the same whether small or big a sin is a sin.

We are the righteousness of GOd in Christ Jesus...Christ had made us worthy and acceptable to Heavenly Father. We are here to believe in Christ and his finished work on the cross...not our puny human efforts!

1 John 1 is a great scripture that explains how things work.

It is borderline abusive for a girl to sit across from a man and reveal something so personal...and more importantly HF sees everything. If you had really sinned according the word you would need to bring a bull to the altar, lay your hands on it, so your sin would pass to the harmless animal and the pure sinless animal would pass on its righteousness to you an then you'd kill the bull and burn [now that was OT stuff because the Saviour hadn't come yet, so they had to do those things]!

Goodness, don't even stress, plan your wedding, know God loves you unconditionally and you are forgiven

Isa 1:18

[GoodMormonGirl]

@skippy740....Awww come on...what is this blacks in the scripture business????

Leave the girl alone. Honey read your scriptures

* the woman caught in adultery

* the woman at the well

* the woman with the alabaster box

Jesus is about forgiveness.

[Guest SisterofJared]

In the temple they clearly define the law of Chasity as having no sexual intercourse with someone we are not married do. A bishop told me that means masturbation is not breaking the law of chastity of itself... but that it is an abuse towards it that makes it more difficult to keep the spirit with us. The bishop told me this does not need to be discussed with a church authority... it CAN be, if that is helpful to you, but you should not feel evil and bad and awful if you choose not to. It's a personal decision.

I'm more concerned that you are concerned.... that gives a vibe to your post that you're trying to escape censure... which may or may not come, and which may or may not be helpful. I say be prayerful about it and make your own decision. Do what the spirit guides you to do.

[MarginOfError]

In the temple they clearly define the law of Chasity as having no sexual intercourse with someone we are not married do. A bishop told me that means masturbation is not breaking the law of chastity of itself... but that it is an abuse towards it that makes it more difficult to keep the spirit with us. The bishop told me this does not need to be discussed with a church authority... it CAN be, if that is helpful to you, but you should not feel evil and bad and awful if you choose not to. It's a personal decision.

I'm more concerned that you are concerned.... that gives a vibe to your post that you're trying to escape censure... which may or may not come, and which may or may not be helpful. I say be prayerful about it and make your own decision. Do what the spirit guides you to do.

The temple dialogue was changed several years ago to define the law of chastity as having "no sexual relations" outside of marriage. Given that definition, whether or not masturbation is included is up for debate.

However, the following description

Strongly tied to the sacred, private parts of the body are powerful emotions intended to be used within the covenant of marriage between a man and woman in ways that are appropriate and acceptable to them both. They are an important part of the love and trust that bond a husband and wife together and prepare them for the responsibilities of a family. They bring the blessing of children. These emotions are not to be stimulated or used for personal gratification outside of the covenant of marriage. Do not touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body to stimulate those emotions. Do not allow anyone to do that with you, with or without clothing. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body. These things are wrong. Do not do them. Such practices would undermine your ability to be inspired by the Holy Ghost in the vitally important decisions you must make for your future. They lead to binding addictions and grievous transgressions. (Richard G. Scott)

Such a discussion would lead me to believe that at least one Apostle disagrees with your bishop.

[MarginOfError]

One piece of counsel in the Church's pamphlet on pornography (Let Virtue Garnish Thy Thoughts) is "if you seek out pornography intentionally or if you repeatedly indulge in it or rationalize its use, you should discuss the matter with your bishop."

Infrequent and isolated relapses in your struggle to conquer this temptation may not require confession to the bishop. But if you do it repeatedly, regularly, and intentionally* you may need a higher level of confession. I'll leave it up to you to decide where your episodes fall in that spectrum.

* by intentional, I mean planned or deliberate episodes, as opposed to spontaneous episodes.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Hmmm.... I wouldn't say an apostle disagreed with my bishop. He warned that these LEAD to binding addictions and grievous transgressions. He didn't state that it was breaking the law of Chastity, but warned that it would undermine your ability to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. Totally agreed.

Personally if I had the problem, I would discuss it with my authorities, because I know they are there to help me. And I think if the OP prays about it, she will know and receive the peace she needs before the interview, whether she decides to bring it up with her SP or not. That's what she needs... peace to know she is doing the right thing.

[GoodMormonGirl]

Ha ha ha ha!

Here is divinely guided by revelation!

Why do we strain at gnats while we let whole camels pass through the gate.

Do you people really think in a world that is devoid of Jesus and people do not not know how much God loves them and wants them to know His SON so that they can get back to him, you mean to suggest to me, that with all the soul saving that we have to do, our GOD is concerned about silly ridiculous crap while his children perish?

WHo appointed anyone of us judges

Rom 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Only God and Christ can judge and condemn.

Let it go folks.

[MarginOfError]

Ha ha ha ha!

Here is divinely guided by revelation!

Why do we strain at gnats while we let whole camels pass through the gate.

Do you people really think in a world that is devoid of Jesus and people do not not know how much God loves them and wants them to know His SON so that they can get back to him, you mean to suggest to me, that with all the soul saving that we have to do, our GOD is concerned about silly ridiculous crap while his children perish?

WHo appointed anyone of us judges

Rom 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Only God and Christ can judge and condemn.

Let it go folks.

Who has judged? Or who has condemned?

There was no judgment to be made, as Scylla already admitted guilt.

But then again, your attitude is colored by the perception that masturbation isn't a sin (or so you've implied in your posts). But that is a separate issue from how to handle the guilt and shame that Scylla is feeling. So far, all anyone has done is point her to or away from her stake president and/or bishop (who, by the way, do have the authority to judge these situations--they are the proper people to make that judgment if someone feels they don't want to do it alone).

Now, if you want to debate the sources given that classify masturbation as a sin, you're welcome to do that. But that debate is quite independent of judgment of any one individual.

[MarginOfError]

Hmmm.... I wouldn't say an apostle disagreed with my bishop. He warned that these LEAD to binding addictions and grievous transgressions. He didn't state that it was breaking the law of Chastity, but warned that it would undermine your ability to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. Totally agreed.

That's certainly a myopic interpretation of the quote.

"Do not arouse those emotions in your own body. These things are wrong."

I'm not sure how you can get around saying that this would be a violation of the law of chastity. Especially when considering that lustful thoughts are a violation of the law of chastity.

I won't argue that all violations of the law of chastity need to be confessed. There are certainly levels of severity in the actions taken. But let's not get caught in the trap of thinking that if it doesn't require confession to a priesthood authority then it doesn't qualify as a violation of the law of chastity.

[beefche]

Ha ha ha ha!

Here is divinely guided by revelation!

Why do we strain at gnats while we let whole camels pass through the gate.

Do you people really think in a world that is devoid of Jesus and people do not not know how much God loves them and wants them to know His SON so that they can get back to him, you mean to suggest to me, that with all the soul saving that we have to do, our GOD is concerned about silly ridiculous crap while his children perish?

WHo appointed anyone of us judges

Rom 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Only God and Christ can judge and condemn.

Let it go folks.

Are you really a Mormon?

Mormons believe that bishops are judges in Israel. Sure, only Christ can judge and condemn, but bishops are given the keys to make judgments in particular cases. And obtaining a temple recommend is one of those areas.

[skippy740]

If we want the blessings of the temple, we need to be striving towards living according to the Celestial laws as revealed to us.

Notice that this entire thread is about confession. No where did anyone say that there would be some kind of "serious consequences". But confession is and has been required.

At least the person confessing will feel the weight lifted off their shoulders for doing what they know to be right.

And what would the Bishop or Stake President probably say? "Go and sin no more."

[Vort]

Scylla was bothered enough by the question to start a thread on it. The answer seems obvious: She should discuss this with her stake president (or bishop). If it's nothing, he'll tell her it's nothing. If it's huge, he'll tell her it's huge. And if it's a minor thing that she needs to be cleansed of, he'll tell her that. That's the beauty of having a Priesthood holder with authority to judge.

[GoodMormonGirl]

Okay well It appears the point here has been proved that we are judges indeed if we are capable of deciding what is sin and what is not. Goodness guilt...how can one not feel guilty when you are told you will feel guilty if you {insert whatever you want}.

I was only wanting the girl to see that GOD loves her not her actions be they good or bad. It is the Lords job to change the hearts of people.

We try to do Gods work and neglect the "weighter matters of the law" LOVE LOVE LOVE that is what GOD has asked us to do. HE and only HE can bring to Pass the immortality and eternal life of his children.

The joy of conversing with Mormons...always ending up in GOD's business when we can't handle our own messes tehehehehehe!

[skippy740]

And you're mocking us for our religious practices? On our forum?

You're free to disagree, but you can at least show some respect.