Ancient America Speaks

[Sali]

I know this was a popular missionary video back in the eighties, but my question is, is it used now? Is it still considered credible? What is the general consensus of the Book of Mormon and the ancient civilisation evidence in South America?

[blackknight5k]

I have never seen or heard of "Ancient America Peaks", however in the temple bookstore there are plenty of books on mesoamerica and its relationship to the Book of Mormon. Honestly, I was skeptical about them at first but after taking my honeymoon in Playa Del Carmen and going to Chichen Itza and seeing some very obvious similarities between aspects of the religion and ours I decided to dig deeper. I picked up Decoding Ancient America: A Guide to the Archaeology of the Book of Mormon by Diane Wirth (link) which really opened my eyes to the similarities.

However, you have to keep in mind that Cortez, the Conquistadores, and the Catholic Church destroyed tons of valuable information on the religions and histories of Mesoamerica. Most of what we know are from 4 codices preserved by a few catholic priests who thought "hey, maybe this should be preserved". Also, another thing to keep in mind is that from the time of the fall of the Nephites to the discovery by Cortez was about 1000 years, and by the time the Nephites fell the opposing religions and nations around the Nephites were large and influential. Because of the nature of the Book of Mormon we don't have many specifics on the ways of life or what the tribes actually called themselves, it's more of catch all terms like "Jews" and "Gentiles".

I am by no means an archaeologist so I could be completely wrong, however I do suggest buying the book and having a read through.

[Vort]

I don't think it's much used any more. Outside the LDS Church, the general consensus is to dismiss the Book of Mormon out of hand as a work of fiction with no ties to actual people or events in preColumbian America. Inside the Church, the general consensus is that the Book of Mormon is a work of literal historicity, despite non-Mormons being too prejudiced to consider the possibility.

[RipplecutBuddha]

There's a great deal of interesting information coming out of archaeological digs in central and south america. Since we're not sure which areas could pertain to the Book of Mormon, we're still at a point of looking it all over and seeing if any of it rationally fits within our beliefs.

As far as any hard evidence coming out in favor of the BoM from all this field work, there are four main camps of thought, and Vort already mentioned the two bigger groups.

1. Dismiss the BoM out of hand, never read it for one's self, conclude it's all a bunch of hogwash. This group just doesn't care/think about it enough to care, or is just too hardhearted to consider it in any way.

2. Deny the BoM is true, read enough of it to recognize similarities to the Bible/ Isaiah quotes, and similarities to Matthew, conclude that the BoM has some good stuff, but it's still not true scripture. This group at least examines the matter. Some superficially, others through the lens of non-LDS studies that may/may not be anti in nature. The BoM matters to this group, but usually as a percieved threat in some way.

3. Agree the BoM could be true, read it in depth and/or examined it enough to know that the rote explanations from critics can't hold up under scrutiny. They see how much the BoM and the Bible agree doctrinally, but still cannot explain how Joseph Smith did what he did in producing it. This is the smallest group of the four.

4. Accept the BoM as true scripture equal in authority to the Bible, along with all other commonly held LDS beliefs.

Now, this is a simplification, but bear with me here. Regarding real archaeological evidence that supports the BoM and Joseph Smith's claims, there are already multiple dozens that have been discovered long after Joseph Smith's death, much less after the BoM was originally published. As such, while these don't constitute proof that Joseph Smith was right (the only thing that can prove him right is a witness from the Holy Ghost), they do offer strong indications in the affirnitive. How each group reacts to this information is usually the following;

1. Doesn't matter, the whole thing's a fraud, no matter what is found.

2. Doesn't matter, with all the outrageous claims, Joseph Smith was bound to get a few right here and there, but it's all still just hogwash.

3. Matters in a fascinating aspect of how Joseph Smith could have known this before it was discovered, since lucky guesses don't typically happen in this kind of research, but still....something about it just doesn't add up.

4. Doesn't matter, but is very interesting to learn of anyway. The reason it doesn't matter is that the truth of the BoM is determined by a method totally foreign to critical thought...exercise of one's faith. Once God tells you it's true, the evidence is just icing on the cake.

Again, I know this is simplistic, and that most people will find themselves between these groups, or not in any of them at all, but this is per my experience in studying the material myself. Hopefully we keep gaining new insights into the ancient Americas, because there's a rich history to be discovered whether it pertains to the BoM or not.

[Blackmarch]

I know this was a popular missionary video back in the eighties, but my question is, is it used now? Is it still considered credible? What is the general consensus of the Book of Mormon and the ancient civilisation evidence in South America?

havent seen that book specifically, while we havent found any "This is the City of Zarahemla signs" type evidence (altho we've come pretty close to a land of bountiful, and there are afew really really interesting names of ancient cities), there has been enough evidence found to generally blow away many of the "the book of mormon is false because this or that did not exist in ancient america" type arguments... so in the end one still has to know the truth by revelation more than by science.

There are many many similarities.

[rameumptom]

Not used today. Much of the "proof" shown is all over the place, and focuses on a Hemispheric Model, rather than a Local Geographical Theory. That they show interesting stuff that dates from a variety of times, much of it having nothing to do with Nephite era stuff, means there are no clear connections in reality.

[Sali]

Thank you, you have answered my questions. :)

[NeuroTypical]

FWIW, For years, I've been asking LDS critics if it would change their mind if they woke up tomorrow and found non-LDS archaeologists discovering Zarahemla, the sword of Laban, Nephi's burial site complete with Hebrew DNA, and evidence of Reformed Egyptian.

About 50% say it would, the other 50% say no.

Go figure.

[moundbuilder]

The connection between the Jaredite remains found througout the Ohio Valley and extending in to New York are revealed in "The Nephilim Chronicles; Fallen Angles in the Ohio Valley."

The skull types found in the mounds associated with the giants are identical, from the Ohio Valley to New York, to England the the Middle East

A strange and unique skull type called the Dinaric provide undeniable evidence that they are the same large people, (who buried their dead in conical mounds) that have been found accross the globe.

See for yourself.

*edited by moderator*

13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of LDS.net. LDS.net is not responsible for the content of any site linked on LDS.net.

Edited March 28, 2012 by john doe

[rameumptom]

Except that the Mound People probably were not the Jaredites. The time frames differ, and the numbers of people mentioned for the Jaredites in the BoM do not match the small groups that make up the Mound Builders. For example 2 million Jaredites were slain in the last wars PRIOR to the final destruction. There weren't that many Mound Builders, who ranged more into a few hundred thousands throughout the eastern North America.

[livy111us]

Don't expect a response, rameumptom. Moundbuilder is known for making outlandish hit and run claims. He won't pop up until there is another chance to share that link of his.

[skalenfehl]

It is my belief that Central America extended throughout the Caribbean and connected to N. America via Florida, what I strongly believe is the narrow neck of land. I know this goes against scholarly knowledge and research and that's ok. If anyone is interested, here is a discussion on another forum that I have shared all my info, research, maps, etc. and why I believe that before Christ's death (3 Nephi 8), the Caribbean was a small continent known as the "Land Southward" and of course it included the land of Zarahemla in Guatemala. You'll find out why I believe that the land Bountiful was in Florida. A Jaredite city was once built in this narrow neck of land as well as we read in Ether.

LDS Freedom Forum - View topic - Book of Mormon setting in North America

And I recently found this earlier this week, which really confirms my belief as well that many peoples like Hagoth's people and the people of Ammon migrated upward to the land North via Florida:

Maya In America

I made a post about it here, but it died quickly so I didn't follow up, but if there is anyone who is interested, you can follow me there.

[Traveler]

The greatest irony for the "Christian based" critics of the Book of Mormon is that the evidence they keep touting that disproves the Book of Mormon also disproves the Bible as well.

For example: the lack of any Hebrew DNA. Heber was less than 10 generations from Noah and if there is no similar identifiable DNA that can be justified in the Americas - then the Bible is also disproven.

Often in discussions with non-LDS-Christian critics of the Book of Mormon, I simply reply that whatever considerations they make for the Bible - the make for the Book of Mormon. And I remind them that a demonstration of hypocrisy is to apply one standard towards those they despise different from the standard they apply for themselves.

The Traveler

[Magen_Avot]

I have never seen or heard of "Ancient America Peaks"

Me neither. But I'm pretty sure it did.

[moundbuilder]

Actually there is a strain of called Haplo X that has been traced back to Galilee. It is found in northern Native American tribes. This is further evidence of migrations from the Biblical lands. The Nephi or Nephilim have been documented across North America, but in the greatest numbers within the burial mounds in the Ohio Valley. Joseph called these mounds in Ohio, "The land of the Nephi."

More on giants here.

*edited by moderator*

13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of LDS.net. LDS.net is not responsible for the content of any site linked on LDS.net.

Edited March 28, 2012 by john doe