Jon Huntsman, Jr.

[mtnbikemom]

Jon Hunstman Jr. is having difficulty determining whether or not he is Mormon. I know it can be hard. Poor fellow. I don't think this had the intended effect-Utah is the only place paying attention. Regardless of how he defines himself he will always be percieved nationally as a Mormon (foor good and bad) and now he will be percieved in Utah as a waffling, slimy politician.

Huntsman says his Mormon church membership is 'tough to define' - ksl.com

[skippy740]

He's not the only one.

LDS Politicians Have A Hard Time Standing Up For The Gospel | Mormon Chronicle

I don't necessarily blame them... if they think that being associated with the church won't help them get elected. With 14 million members... and over half of them aren't in the US... there's about 6+ million in the US that would have a better disposition to vote for an LDS politician.

It's simply not enough to get elected.

The problem we have in our political system is there are too many people who aren't fully truthful or speak in plain terms.

I'm too young to have been around for the JFK election & presidency. But JFK, from historical records, spoke with boldness. He never seemed ashamed of being of the Catholic faith. Of course, Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination world wide, so it would be more 'culturally acceptable' than being LDS.

Mitt Romney was attacked for his LDS faith by other presidential candidates. Having seen that, I can understand why others might be "waffling".

The biggest fear I can think of, for having an LDS politician/president, is wondering if the president will think for themselves, or take orders from church leaders in Salt Lake.

All the LDS presidential candidate would have to say is that the church leaders lead their church members. I, as president, would preside over the affairs of this country. If God wanted something done in the country, he would reveal it to me. If God wanted something done within religous faiths, he would reveal His will to those leaders. But the president, along with inspiration from Almighty God, would lead the country, and no one else.

It wouldn't be that hard. But it takes boldness to say it.

[pam]

You do realize that your link took us directly to the comments and not to the article itself. Was that intentional?

[Wingnut]

Actual article on Huntsman: Huntsman says his Mormon church membership is 'tough to define' - ksl.com

[Wingnut]

It's simply not enough to get elected.

And if you lose those 6 million because you waffle away or leave/deny the Church altogether, it's not enough to keep you from getting elected if you've now got other support from the right.

[Just_A_Guy]

Jon Hunstman Jr. is having difficulty determining whether or not he is Mormon. I know it can be hard. Poor fellow. I don't think this had the intended effect-Utah is the only place paying attention. Regardless of how he defines himself he will always be percieved nationally as a Mormon (foor good and bad) and now he will be percieved in Utah as a waffling, slimy politician.

Huntsman says his Mormon church membership is 'tough to define' - ksl.com

Thoughts:

1) Could be he's having a sincere crisis of faith.

2) Could also be he holds true to Mormonism but doesn't want it to become an issue--yet. If no one but UT is paying attention, it follows that the national media (and the evangelical faction of the Republican base) is ignoring Huntsman's religion. Ergo: Mission accomplished--sort of. Romney was The Mormon Candidate from Day 1; Huntsman seems to have dodged that--for good and for ill. The downside for him is that he won't be able to tap Utah for campaign contributions the way Romney could. Maybe he figures he's got enough national connections to make up for that.

3) As a candidate, are we even supposed to be discussing him here? :)

[Wingnut]

3) As a candidate, are we even supposed to be discussing him here? :)

Is he officially a candidate yet? I don't think he's technically declared intent to run at this point.

[skippy740]

So far, this topic has been more "observational" rather than being "for" or "against" him as a candidate.

No one is endorsing him or bashing him (necessarily). Just observations about Jon as an LDS political candidate.

I don't see a problem with the topic as long as we can keep the objectivity. (Yeah, right. Now that I say that, SOMEONE is gonna say something...)

BTW, anybody read his book "Winners Never Cheat"? I've downloaded it for free for my Kindle reader, but I haven't read it yet.

I was getting Jr. confused with Sr. Never mind.

Edited May 17, 2011 by skippy740

[pam]

If and when he announces his intention to run, this would have to be deleted.

[MarginOfError]

[mtnbikemom]

You do realize that your link took us directly to the comments and not to the article itself. Was that intentional?

Not intentional at all. Just completely incompetent when it comes to posting, cutting and pasting.

Edited May 16, 2011 by mtnbikemom

[Dravin]

Trying not to announce your intention to run MoE?

[Wingnut]

Trying not to announce your intention to run MoE?

Would that mean that MOE and every post he's ever made would have to be deleted from the site?

[MarginOfError]

I would run, but my politics are too liberal to garner the support of the LDS.net community, and without this bloc of voters, I can't possibly win the general.

[Dravin]

I would run, but my politics are too liberal to garner the support of the LDS.net community, and without this bloc of voters, I can't possibly win the general.

I'd vote for you if you promise (and fulfill the promise) to use at least 2 math jokes in every speech. Oh, and bonus points if you do a statistical analysis of topic and word frequencies of your opponents speeches.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Dravin

[pam]

Would that mean that MOE and every post he's ever made would have to be deleted from the site?

Oh MOE..please run..please please please.

[skippy740]

You know, I was just thinking about something that makes this all different for LDS candidates:

The "Glenn Beck" factor.

Whether you like him or not, he is unashamed of the Gospel and has some interesting views of his own.

Perhaps by distancing themselves from the church, the can also avoid being "lumped in" to the "Glenn Beck" factor.

[applepansy]

Oh good grief. Unless he's asked to have his name removed or was never baptized, then it doesn't seem to hard to define.

Now if he has decided he doesn't believe the church is true then for pete's sake just say so. At least everyone would respect his honesty.

[MarginOfError]

Oh good grief. Unless he's asked to have his name removed or was never baptized, then it doesn't seem to hard to define.

Now if he has decided he doesn't believe the church is true then for pete's sake just say so. At least everyone would respect his honesty.

It isn't really that simple, actually. Especially if you're trying to run as a moderate republican so as to court the independent vote (which is essential to winning an national election). The trouble with being identified as a mormon candidate is that it also comes with the association of the Prop 8 campaign. Being identified as a mormon candidate almost assures him of no support from the conservative right and no support from the moderate independents. Politically, it makes a lot of sense for him to distance himself from the Church. We die hard mormons may not like it, but at this point in time, it's the best shot a mormon has of reaching national executive office.

[Vort]

Politically, it makes a lot of sense for him to distance himself from the Church. We die hard mormons may not like it, but at this point in time, it's the best shot a mormon has of reaching national executive office.

Then may a Mormon never reach the national executive office. God forbid a man sell out his very integrity and deepest beliefs in hopes of winning an election.

[MarginOfError]

Then may a Mormon never reach the national executive office. God forbid a man sell out his very integrity and deepest beliefs in hopes of winning an election.

Meh. I'm indifferent to a person downplaying his personal beliefs in order to get something done. If I were running for office, I would want to make it very clear that my religious beliefs were not dictating my political and civic choices. If that really bothered a fellow member of the church, I'd encourage them to vote for someone else.

[Vort]

It's one thing to "downplay" one's personal beliefs. It's quite another to publicly question one's very membership in the kingdom of God.

I would always say that I'm married to my wife. Even if someone didn't like her, my response would be, "She's my wife". Not "Well, we're sort of married, but I'm really not sure how to define whether or not I like her." Such a thing is disloyal and exhibits a deficiency of character.

I see two possibilities:

• Huntsman is telling the truth. He truly is not a very dedicated Latter-day Saint. He accepts the social and cultural trappings of Mormonism but does not really self-identify as a Mormon, at least in a spiritual sense. In this case, I think it's dishonest of him to run as a Latter-day Saint. Better publicly to disclaim his Church membership, even if he doesn't officially withdraw his name from the Church records. I could respect that, and would certainly consider voting for an unbelieving Mormon or ex-Mormon that sees things politically and culturally similar to how I see them -- but only if he's honest about his LDS Church affiliation or lack thereof.
• Huntsman is lying. He either hates the LDS Church but does not wish to alienate his base, thus keeping his putative membership; or else he believes the LDS Church to be as it claims, but is unwilling to associate his name with it for fear he might not be elected. Either position is despicable.

I don't think a man's religion should be a major consideration to his candidacy, but how he treats and identifies with that religion certainly is. In this regard, the Time magazine article portrays Huntsman in a very poor light.

[Elphaba]

You know, I was just thinking about something that makes this all different for LDS candidates:

The "Glenn Beck" factor.

Whether you like him or not, he is unashamed of the Gospel and has some interesting views of his own.

Perhaps by distancing themselves from the church, the can also avoid being "lumped in" to the "Glenn Beck" factor.

This would actually make sense, though I think that if it does, it's only to a small degree. But it turns out Beck is actually good friends with Huntsman's father. In fact, he once went so far as to say of Huntsman, Sr.:

He is the only man I have ever met that I believe has the character of George Washington.

Additionally, Beck included something about Huntsman, Sr. at the end of his book The Christmas Sweater. I don't know exactly what he wrote because I've not read it, but apparently it had something to do with Huntsman, Sr's. rags-to-riches story as well as his charity work.

I suspect if Huntsman (Jr.) does decide to run, Beck would actually speak in favor of him given his high regard for his father. Huntsman might want to avoid that, especially given Beck's declining listener statistics may indicate waning support. So, you may be more correct than you realized.

Elphaba

Edited May 17, 2011 by Elphaba

[Just_A_Guy]

I would always say that I'm married to my wife. Even if someone didn't like her, my response would be, "She's my wife". Not "Well, we're sort of married, but I'm really not sure how to define whether or not I like her." Such a thing is disloyal and exhibits a deficiency of character.

Sort of like that guy who listed "It's Complicated" as his Facebook relationship status, thus prompting a divorce petition from his embittered wife.

(That wasn't you, was it?)

[mightynancy]

Vort, there are more possibilities than two.

I'm LDS. I believe the doctrine and have a testimony of Jesus Christ. That said, I'm not a lot of the things that people think Mormons are. I'm an environmentalist, a feminist, a liberal, and for secular governance. I don't expect people who are not well-versed in Mormonism's reality to understand the nuance between our LDS "trappings" and core doctrines. I don't expect most folks to understand that Mormons aren't one homogenous block. Heck, even a lot of Mormons don't understand that.

It could well be the inverse of your option one: perhaps Bro. Huntsman believes the doctrine, but rejects the social and cultural elements of the Church. There are a lot of us in that position.

Edit to add: I don't think that any of my listed sociopolitical beliefs are incompatible with the Gospel. That said, it's complicated to explain. Kinda like what JH, Jr. said. Hm.