Jesus, Married?!

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 3 2004, 12:25 PM

Applying the teachings in the Bible and Book of Mormon are far more difficult to apply and learn in one's life than medical books

Oh really, so you have experience in the medical field? Please tell me of them.

handful of true Christians in the world

And you said i made gross assumptions?

Do you agree with the point I made or not?

I made an analogy to make a point.

Yes, I did make an assumption. However, consider out of six billion people far less than a third would be described as Christian. Considering the state of the world, I assumed very few people are in the rest of the Lord leading a life without fear able to comprehend all things, including God.

[Outshined]

Oh, here is a pretty good brief article about the subject of Christ's marriage (or lack thereof): http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answer...sus-married.htm

Oh, and see: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/respons...riage_jesus.htm

-Outshined

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 3 2004, 10:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 3 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 09:01 AM

Imagine your geneological chart if you could trace yourself back to Jesus.  God would be in there as your great great great great great great great great great grampa!  LOL!!!!!!

Is it really that funny?

YES!

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 1 2004, 05:05 PM

If God was the father of Jesus' body, than would he have ever had children? If he did get married, it doesn't seem logical that he could have had children because they'd be part god. Totally unfair advantage...

I don't think that Jesus' children would be divine, if he had any. He was 100% human in that respect. The divinity came because he was conceived without sin and the spirit of God resided in him. If he fathered children, IMO, they would be no different than you and I.

Of course, I am a couple of steps ahead of everyone else here. B)

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by bizabra+Mar 3 2004, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Mar 3 2004, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 3 2004, 10:17 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 09:01 AM

Imagine your geneological chart if you could trace yourself back to Jesus.  God would be in there as your great great great great great great great great great grampa!  LOL!!!!!!

Is it really that funny?

YES!

Why?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 3 2004, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 3 2004, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Mar 1 2004, 05:05 PM

If God was the father of Jesus' body, than would he have ever had children?    If he did get married, it doesn't seem logical that he could have had children because they'd be part god.  Totally unfair advantage...

I don't think that Jesus' children would be divine, if he had any. He was 100% human in that respect. The divinity came because he was conceived without sin and the spirit of God resided in him. If he fathered children, IMO, they would be no different than you and I.

Of course, I am a couple of steps ahead of everyone else here. B)

Interesting....You know...if we are intelligence...truth and light....and the glory of God is intelligence...and when we are ressurected into a glorious body...one which is glorified with more intelligence....wouldn't we be of a higher physical body as God is? through that added glory?

And since we are offspring of God....though only in our Spirit form...until we are ressurrected and bring our own physical bodies into a higher or lower state of being through our obedience...then Christ was formed from a higher level of resurrected body...a body which over came death. He was part immortal...right?

At the very least, His children would have had more power over death...wouldn't they?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 4 2004, 02:25 AM

At the very least, His children would have had more power over death...wouldn't they?

He didn't even have power over death except as His divinity allowed. If we are not divine in the sense Jesus was till after the resurrection of the dead, then they (His children (if he had any)) wouldn't have any power over death, either.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 3 2004, 10:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 3 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 3 2004, 10:17 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 09:01 AM

Imagine your geneological chart if you could trace yourself back to Jesus.  God would be in there as your great great great great great great great great great grampa!  LOL!!!!!!

Is it really that funny?

YES!

Why?

If you can't grasp the humor inherent in the idea of having god be someones great x 20 grandpa, then no amount of explanation by me can help you understand.

Sorry.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 3 2004, 07:12 PM

Of course, I am a couple of steps ahead of everyone else here. B)

Okay, stop right there. Now I'm interested! Please share this advanced knowledge! I'm not familiar with your church's doctrines on the "Godhead." You believe that God the father was NOT the father of Jesus' body? Was Joseph the physical father? Did Mary already have a complete embryo in her womb that was activated by the Holy Spirit? I guess I shouldn't second guess you here, but you have me intrigued.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by bizabra+Mar 4 2004, 09:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Mar 4 2004, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 3 2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by -bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 3 2004, 10:17 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Mar 3 2004, 09:01 AM

Imagine your geneological chart if you could trace yourself back to Jesus.  God would be in there as your great great great great great great great great great grampa!  LOL!!!!!!

Is it really that funny?

YES!

Why?

If you can't grasp the humor inherent in the idea of having god be someones great x 20 grandpa, then no amount of explanation by me can help you understand.

Sorry.

Sorry, I don't really see humor in my own beliefs and what I know to be true. What's sad if you can't see how wonderful that would be. I truly feel sorry for you Biz.

[Tr2]

Actually, belief in a god is as laughable as believing in fairies , leprechauns, and unicorns. In MY opionion, anyway!

Lots of people feel that way.

You still have not answered my question

That is not your business. You seem so insistent on me answering this question. I am not interested as to why you are here. If you have a problem with that, well it's not my problem.

The only time I've seen any sort of imagination or creativity from you is when recalling your military record.

If you have never served in a SOF unit, what makes you think you know what goes on?

You don't impress me, and never have

That's because you've never met me.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 4 2004, 09:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 4 2004, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 3 2004, 07:12 PM

Of course, I am a couple of steps ahead of everyone else here.   B)     

Okay, stop right there. Now I'm interested! Please share this advanced knowledge! I'm not familiar with your church's doctrines on the "Godhead." You believe that God the father was NOT the father of Jesus' body? Was Joseph the physical father? Did Mary already have a complete embryo in her womb that was activated by the Holy Spirit? I guess I shouldn't second guess you here, but you have me intrigued.

I believe in a modal Godhead as opposed to a trinitarian Godhead. I believe that there is one God that has three modes of expression (three purposes), the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

Mosiah 8:28-31 RLDS (15:1-4 LDS)

28 And now Abinadi said unto them, I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people;

29 And because he dwelleth in flesh, he shall be called the Son of God:

30 And having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son; the Father because he was conceived by the power of God: and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son:

31 And they are one God, yea, the very eternal Father of heaven and of earth;

This scripture very closely describes how I believe about the Godhead.

I believe that Jesus' literal body is no different than yours and mine. The difference lies in how it came to be. It came to be via spiritual means rather than human means. I believe that God (the Father) spiritually touched the unfertilized egg in Mary's womb by means of the Holy Spirit, and it became a fertilized egg. A pure home for his divine spirit to rest. He is pure because he was conceived without sin. He is divine because God's spirit rests within him. Without either of these qualities, he could not have shouldered our sins. Both were extremely necessary. And if he was not 100% human, he could not have died for our sins because he could neither comprehend them nor suffer for them.

So, IMO, being pure, being divine and being 100% human could have been the only way for his purpose to be accomplished.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 4 2004, 10:39 AM

I believe that Jesus' literal body is no different than yours and mine. The difference lies in how it came to be. It came to be via spiritual means rather than human means. I believe that God (the Father) spiritually touched the unfertilized egg in Mary's womb by means of the Holy Spirit, and it became a fertilized egg. A pure home for his divine spirit to rest. He is pure because he was conceived without sin. He is divine because God's spirit rests within him. Without either of these qualities, he could not have shouldered our sins. Both were extremely necessary. And if he was not 100% human, he could not have died for our sins because he could neither comprehend them nor suffer for them.

So, IMO, being pure, being divine and being 100% human could have been the only way for his purpose to be accomplished.

This is hard for me to understand. I completely respect your views, but where did the Y chromosome DNA come from?

[Guest curvette]

Now I'm asking myself the same question about a clone. I suppose if genetic testing were done on a clone, it would show the same dna as the dna doner. If Jesus' body was no different than you or I, it would show the same patterns as any of us in a simple dna test. So who's dna would show up in a paternity test? This is boggling my mind!

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 4 2004, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 4 2004, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Mar 4 2004, 10:39 AM

I believe that Jesus' literal body is no different than yours and mine.  The difference lies in how it came to be.  It came to be via spiritual means rather than human means.  I believe that God (the Father) spiritually touched the unfertilized egg in Mary's womb by means of the Holy Spirit, and it became a fertilized egg.  A pure home for his divine spirit to rest.  He is pure because he was conceived without sin.  He is divine because God's spirit rests within him.  Without either of these qualities, he could not have shouldered our sins.  Both were extremely necessary.  And if he was not 100% human, he could not have died for our sins because he could neither comprehend them nor suffer for them.

So, IMO, being pure, being divine and being 100% human could have been the only way for his purpose to be accomplished.

This is hard for me to understand. I completely respect your views, but where did the Y chromosome DNA come from?

Just like the three Nephites were changed in the twinkling of an eye into translated beings, God can change the nature of anything he wants. God changed the nature of the egg from unfertilized to fertilized. Part of the miracle is that it was changed from unfertilized to fertilized male. It would not have been such a great miracle if it had been changed from unfertilized to fertilized female. (I read that scientists have been able to force fertilization from two eggs, the result would, of course, have to be female.)

I believe, but am not sure, that the LDS view is that God actually had some kind of sex with Mary to create Jesus. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to continue to carry around that impression if it is false.) I don't believe that that happened, I believe that it just took the touch of the Holy Spirit to effect that change.

[Guest Starsky]

I believe, but am not sure, that the LDS view is that God actually had some kind of sex with Mary to create Jesus. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to continue to carry around that impression if it is false.) I don't believe that that happened, I believe that it just took the touch of the Holy Spirit to effect that change.

WOE! Hannah! I don't think we believe God had sex with Mary....I would think more in our times that it was some kind of embryo implantation...Or artificial insemination.

But in anycase I have always considered Christ half God...greater than myself..even in the physical form.

However knowing that Godhood is nothing more or less than a certain required amount of intelligence, light and truth in the imortal state of being... maybe it was the imortality that was the 'divine' part...

I know our spirits are imortal...but flesh can be imortal also...God's flesh...dna...imortal...over coming death....this would be required..

Christ wasn't murdered....He gave up His life...commending it to God the Father..

[Guest Starsky]

You know we are ressurected through the power of Christ...

Maybe Christ was given this power to ressurect Himself...

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:17 AM

You know we are ressurected through the power of Christ...

Maybe Christ was given this power to ressurect Himself...

I'm confused, Peace. Resurrect himself? Before he was born? Don't you have to die before you can be resurrected?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 4 2004, 10:52 AM

I believe, but am not sure, that the LDS view is that God actually had some kind of sex with Mary to create Jesus. (Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to continue to carry around that impression if it is false.) I don't believe that that happened, I believe that it just took the touch of the Holy Spirit to effect that change.

That has been taught, but I don't think most modern LDS people believe that. I do know that Brigham Young believed it and many church leaders taught it. I even remember hearing it taught in the late 70's when I was a new convert and thinking, "What the heck?' I think they've REALLY backed away from that recently.

But back to the DNA thing. I believe also that an all powerful God could do whatever the heck He wants, but that still leaves me to wonder who would show up as the genetic father if a paternity test had been done on the Savior.

[srm]

WOE! Hannah! I don't think we believe God had sex with Mary....I would think more in our times that it was some kind of embryo implantation...Or artificial insemination.

But in anycase I have always considered Christ half God...greater than myself..even in the physical form.

Christ was and is fully God. He was before during and after his earth life.

However knowing that Godhood is nothing more or less than a certain required  amount of intelligence, light and truth in the imortal state of being... maybe it was the imortality that was the 'divine' part...

and authority

Christ wasn't murdered....He gave up His life...commending it to God the Father..

He was murdered...He just allowed it to happen

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 4 2004, 11:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 4 2004, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:17 AM

You know we are ressurected through the power of Christ...

Maybe Christ was given this power to ressurect Himself...

I'm confused, Peace. Resurrect himself? Before he was born? Don't you have to die before you can be resurrected?

I think she means that if Jesus were literally half divine then, and only then, would he have had the power to resurrect himself after he died.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 4 2004, 11:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 4 2004, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:17 AM

You know we are ressurected through the power of Christ...

Maybe Christ was given this power to ressurect Himself...

I'm confused, Peace. Resurrect himself? Before he was born? Don't you have to die before you can be resurrected?

Not before he was born....after he gave up his life...he took it up again...we on the other hand will have to be resurrected by him...we can't take up our own lives...therefore....I deduce that this was the 'seed' of God...or the part of God given to Christ in his physical form on earth...a physical ability to take up his own life again...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 4 2004, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 4 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Jenda@Mar 4 2004, 11:19 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 4 2004, 11:17 AM

You know we are ressurected through the power of Christ...

Maybe Christ was given this power to ressurect Himself...

I'm confused, Peace. Resurrect himself? Before he was born? Don't you have to die before you can be resurrected?

I think she means that if Jesus were literally half divine then, and only then, would he have had the power to resurrect himself after he died.

Right...thank you Curvette. :)

[Winnie G]

God+ Sex+ Mary= the Christ???

You have got to be kidding?

No we do not teach that!

What is with people, that they have to turn things in to their R rated brain.

Some one will have to show me that in writing to prove the church teaches that.

Then again you have to remember the times early church leaders were in as well.

Some how intercourse was probably not a hot topic for learning in the early days of the church.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Mar 4 2004, 12:23 PM

Some one will have to show me that in writing to prove the church teaches that.

Then again you have to remember the times early church leaders were in as well.

Some how intercourse was probably not a hot topic for learning in the early days of the church.

I don't think that the church still teaches this, but here's one quote from Brigham Young that was expanded upon by subsequent church leaders:

(Q)We first begin to read that Jesus came in the flesh...But suppose I examine that, a moment. The New Testament tells me that the Father gave His only­begotten Son a ransom for the sins of the world. Do you believe that, brother B.? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only­begotten Son of the Father? "Yes." Do you believe the Son was begotten by the Father, as the Apostles said he was? Here I shall have to disagree with you, to begin with; for I believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, [5] and begot the Saviour of the world; for he is the ONLY­begotten of the Father, which could not be if the Father did not actually beget him in person. (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 1:237­238, July 24, 1853)