Questions

[SearchingMySoul]

Ok, I signed up quite a few months ago, to ask some questions, and I got side tracked.I came here to learn about the lds faith and to see for myself if it is the "true" church or not. I have read the bom, d&c and the pogp. I also want to point out that I am in no way trying to bash or bad mouth lds or non lds members. I look at both sides when I study about anything. I have talked to the lds missionaries also some other members of the branch (I hope I got that right) of the lds church in my area, also the president of the church in my area, I have talked to an exmormon (i know he is an ex because I remember when he tried before to get me to go with him) and I have talked to some people who (in my opinion) just try to discredit the church. I have recieved valuable information from all that I have talked to. There is just a few questions that have remained un answered before I can make up my mind. Im pretty sure you all have heard them before (and I want to state, I am not trying to make any one upset, I just need to know).

1 Is there proof that there was a world wide apostacy that made it necesary to need a restoration of the gospel?

2 Is there any archeological evidence for the bom? (ive checked out fair lds, or whatever the website is, and I still am not sure)

3 In the bom it says God is a spirit, but j.s. taught that he had a body of flesh and bone?

4 Is it true that LDS believe in a different Jesus then the Bible Jesus? My friend that used to be a member told me this, He showed me an ensign article from Pres. Hinkley where he said this.

5 Some of discreditors of your faith told me you can become a god of your own planet and have spiritual children, I have never heard of this, can anyone explain?

6 And this, I personally read in the History of the church where J.S. says he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus. Where his apostle deserted him and the lds hasnt left him. wouldn't this be boasting yourself above Jesus?

I asked these to other people and no one could give me any straight answers. Thats why this is the last place im looking. I figured this site is good for getting answers where just about everyone is an lds member and come from different backgrounds. So if anyone can hellp I will be greatly appreciative. I am not trying to challenge anyone's faith either, If I am going to join something, I am going to be completley prepared for whatever it is I am going for. thank you

[Dravin]

I personally read in the History of the church where J.S. says he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus.

Are you sure you aren't mis-attributing the statement found in D&C 135:3?

3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.

If you are there are two fairly important things needing clarification:

1. Joseph Smith is not making that statement, it was made by John Taylor after Joseph's death.

2. It says he's done more, save Jesus only, not more than anyone else, even Jesus.

* Wouldn't surprise me to see the statement contained in History of the Church

Edited May 24, 2011 by Dravin

[SearchingMySoul]

History of the church Volume 6. pg 408 - 409

....Come on! Ye prosecutors! Ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava!for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than over any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me, Neither paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the latter day saints never ran away from me yet.

When I wrote it up earlier I didnt have the book in front of me. but to me this does say he is boasting. but thats what i get, please correct me if i am wrong though.

Are you sure you aren't mis-attributing the statement found in D&C 135:3?

If you are there are two fairly important things needing clarification:

1. Joseph Smith is not making that statement, it was made by John Taylor after Joseph's death.

2. It says he's done more, save Jesus only, not more than anyone else even Jesus.

* Wouldn't surprise me to see the statement contained in History of the Church

[Vort]

1 Is there proof that there was a world wide apostacy that made it necesary to need a restoration of the gospel?

What do you require as proof? Consensus among the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church of AD 400 that the authority had been taken and Christianity was in apostasy? Good luck with that.

2 Is there any archeological evidence for the bom? (ive checked out fair lds, or whatever the website is, and I still am not sure)

You mean, like a sign saying, "Welcome to Zarahemla?" I doubt it.

What sort of evidence would you expect for a small group, precise location unknown, of perhaps one or two hundred thousand people at its peak that was utterly destroyed 1600 years ago?

3 In the bom it says God is a spirit, but j.s. taught that he had a body of flesh and bone?

How are the two mutually exclusive?

4 Is it true that LDS believe in a different Jesus then the Bible Jesus? My friend that used to be a member told me this, He showed me an ensign article from Pres. Hinkley where he said this.

No, he did not. There is no such article. If you are being truthful, then you should be warned that antiMormons love to make this particularly ludicrous claim.

In fact, Latter-day Saints believe EXACTLY in the Jesus of the New Testament. If the antiMormons claim that we believe in "a different Jesus", then they mean we believe in a different Jesus from the being they worship -- a being they have dreamed up, who is obviously not the historical Christ.

5 Some of discreditors of your faith told me you can become a god of your own planet and have spiritual children, I have never heard of this, can anyone explain?

Again, assuming you're not just another lying antiMormon pretending to be interested in the Church (in which case forgive me -- many antiMormons love to pretend to be interested in the Church and then go over their laundry list of antiMormon lies and half-truths, some of which you are asking about):

The Hebrew God was very different from other ancient gods in that He did not expect useless sacrifices to gain His favor, as for example Baal or Zeus. Rather, the Hebrew God expected His people to adopt His personal characteristics. He was loving, just, generous, merciful, honest, and completely faithful, and he expected his people to be loving, just, generous, merciful, honest, and completely faithful.

Jesus reiterated this in words as plain as day. For example, in Matthew 5:48, Jesus teaches his followers, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." The call to perfection, to a Godly life, could not be clearer. Joseph Smith simply acknowledged this truth, obvious to anyone who actually read scriptures: We are to assume Godly characteristics, become like God, and inherit all that God has -- as inheritors with Christ. Pure Biblical doctrine, even if those in larger Christianity prefer to close their eyes and plug their ears to it and chant, "Nyah! Nyah! Nyah! I can't HEEEEAARRRR YYYOOOOUUUUU!"

Some Latter-day Saints have extended and embroidered this doctrine to say something beyond what it actually teaches. But that is neither here nor there. The doctrine is what the doctrine is, regardless of what some might claim.

6 And this, I personally read in the History of the church where J.S. says he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus. Where his apostle deserted him and the lds hasnt left him. wouldn't this be boasting yourself above Jesus?

If you personally read this, then I defy you to show it. Please. Volume and page number.

You are mistaken. Joseph Smith never said any such thing. Assuming again that you aren't just another despicable antiMormon rabblerouser, you obviously misread what you think it said. Please find the section you claim to have read, then reread it. Carefully. What you likely read is D&C 135:3, written by John Taylor (not Joseph Smith) and stating that, in his opinion, Joseph Smith has done more for humanity than any other being who ever lived here except Jesus.

I asked these to other people and no one could give me any straight answers.

Forgive my suspicions, but this is extremely hard to believe. The answers to your questions are obvious and easily available.

I hope you are an honest man (or woman) with sincere questions; if so, I wish you the best in your search.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Vort

[Vort]

History of the church Volume 6. pg 408 - 409

....Come on! Ye prosecutors! Ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava!for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than over any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me, Neither paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the latter day saints never ran away from me yet.

Assuming this quote was recorded correctly (never a given in the records from which HotC were compiles): Where here does Joseph claim "he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus"? He said (if we trust this account) that he did such a work as no one else had ever done. That is a far cry from saying he did more, a claim neither Joseph Smith nor any of his successors ever made.

And if you believe the factuality of the "Great Apostasy" -- which you do if you're LDS -- then it's obviously a true statement, and thus cannot be considered "boasting oneself above Jesus". Even the Church established personally by Christ Himself during His mortal reign lasted only a generation or two before falling into complete apostasy, whereas the kingdom of God set up by Christ under Joseph Smith is destined to last until Christ comes again.

[SearchingMySoul]

Vort, I am an honest man, I am trying to find what the "true religion" is, all my questions are real questions, i just wanted to ask so i know what i would be getting into. as for the proofs, i am not a scholoar or anything, i just didnt know if there was any evidence. that is the reason for my questions. hoping someone could help out, without being offended or saying im not who im saying to be or anything like that. If im going to be called a liar or a fake, im sorry for asking these qeustions, I just thought they were credible questions. well i guess this is the last time im visiting this site. God bless to you all.

[Wingnut]

*sniff*sniff*sniff*

Does it smell in here?

[SearchingMySoul]

Vort. I am not lds, was thinking about it. I just don't know anymore. like my last post i am done talking on this subject. so if a mod can close this post id appreciate it. thanks anyways. God bless

[Vort]

Vort, I am an honest man...If im going to be called a liar or a fake, im sorry for asking these qeustions, I just thought they were credible questions.

Interesting, then, that you fail to realize (or at least acknowledge) that I went out of my way to tell you that was was assuming you were not a liar or a fake, despite the fact that your questions are similar to those who are liars.

What do you make of this?

[beefche]

We all need to assume the best of others. Please treat new people with respect and answer his questions without the accusations that he is anti or a troll.

[pam]

I found the responses to questions uncalled for. I saw nothing out of line with his questions.

[pam]

6 And this, I personally read in the History of the church where J.S. says he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus. Where his apostle deserted him and the lds hasnt left him. wouldn't this be boasting yourself above Jesus?

I don't believe Joseph Smith said this of himself. I do know that John Taylor who was the 3rd President of the LDS church said the following:

President John Taylor, the third President of the Church, wrote, "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it" (D&C 135:3).

He was referring to the restoration of Christ's church upon the earth brought about by Joseph Smith.

[Dravin]

History of the church Volume 6. pg 408 - 409

....Come on! Ye prosecutors! Ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava!for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than over any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me, Neither paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the latter day saints never ran away from me yet.

When I wrote it up earlier I didnt have the book in front of me. but to me this does say he is boasting. but thats what i get, please correct me if i am wrong though.

This dispensation (time when there isn't an apostasy going on) is the only one prophesied to endure to the end days. Though I can certainly see how without a understanding of just what exactly he's talking about and that point of LDS doctrine that it can look like he's claiming he's done more than Jesus. I don't know the exact context the statement was made but it reads more like a rallying cry than boasting to me as such (I am of course biased). A reminder of how great it is the work he's been called to do. Something in the more in the vein of this: Alma 26Â* than flat out "I'm better than all of you all." That said it's entirely possible he got a little hot-headed and overextended himself (speaking of boasting, not claiming he did more than Jesus), prophets are human and prone to the same errors.

I appreciate you quoting the section, it sounds like a misconstruing of the D&C quote as you phrased it and I've not read History of the Church (I don't think it's in print anymore) and was unaware of that quote.

Edit: The thread has been clean up to remove dialog heading down a accusatory route. Additionally posts responding to those were also remove so as not to leave confusing replies to thin air.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Dravin

[pam]

4 Is it true that LDS believe in a different Jesus then the Bible Jesus? My friend that used to be a member told me this, He showed me an ensign article from Pres. Hinkley where he said this.

Without seeing the actual article and seeing what it says and what context it may have been said in, it's hard for me to respond. But we believe in the same Jesus as everyone else. Perhaps in some ways a different interpretation of Him, but still the same Jesus.

I'll see if I can find that article.

[Guest tbaird22]

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (History of The Church, 6:408–409)

Joseph Smith/Narcissism/Did Joseph Smith 'boast' of keeping the Church intact - FAIRMormon

Edited May 24, 2011 by pam
Get away from calling someone a troll

[Guest tbaird22]

1. Yes i suggest reading Old testament and related studies by Hugh Nibley for indepth information on it.

2. The only real evidence for the BoM is spiritual. Physical can be interpreted any which way.

3.God is a Spirit/Book of Mormon teaches God is a spirit - FAIRMormon

4. Its true that GBH denounced the trinitarian Jesus.

5.

6. already responded to.

[Blackmarch]

Ok, I signed up quite a few months ago, to ask some questions, and I got side tracked.I came here to learn about the lds faith and to see for myself if it is the "true" church or not. I have read the bom, d&c and the pogp. I also want to point out that I am in no way trying to bash or bad mouth lds or non lds members. I look at both sides when I study about anything. I have talked to the lds missionaries also some other members of the branch (I hope I got that right) of the lds church in my area, also the president of the church in my area, I have talked to an exmormon (i know he is an ex because I remember when he tried before to get me to go with him) and I have talked to some people who (in my opinion) just try to discredit the church. I have recieved valuable information from all that I have talked to. There is just a few questions that have remained un answered before I can make up my mind. Im pretty sure you all have heard them before (and I want to state, I am not trying to make any one upset, I just need to know).

1 Is there proof that there was a world wide apostacy that made it necesary to need a restoration of the gospel?

the easiest sign to see for this is that the apostles were not replaced after they were killed. For more proof athiests that are critical of the christian religion in general usually love to show or share how contradictory and oppressive christianity has been over the centuries.

2 Is there any archeological evidence for the bom? (ive checked out fair lds, or whatever the website is, and I still am not sure)

if you mean evidence as in finding a sign that says, "THis is the Land of zarahemla" no there hasn't. If you mean evidence that lines up with how things like culture, customs, and things of that nature in the BoM then yes there has.

3 In the bom it says God is a spirit, but j.s. taught that he had a body of flesh and bone?

Because God has both. God also sees physical and spiritual as part of the same spectrum, they just occupy different ends of it.

4 Is it true that LDS believe in a different Jesus then the Bible Jesus? My friend that used to be a member told me this, He showed me an ensign article from Pres. Hinkley where he said this.

that depends how you want to go about explaining christ and defining him.

I think its more accurate we believe different things about him than many other christian religions, some are very significant to whats become prevalent (for some its so significant that it justifies it in their eyes in saying that its a different jesus).

5 Some of discreditors of your faith told me you can become a god of your own planet and have spiritual children, I have never heard of this, can anyone explain?

This is not taught per se, but generally accepted as a consequence of the teaching in that we can becom like God, as is abundantly taught in the bible.

6 And this, I personally read in the History of the church where J.S. says he has done more then anyone else, even Jesus. Where his apostle deserted him and the lds hasnt left him. wouldn't this be boasting yourself above Jesus?

J.S didn't say that- another prophet said that he did more than other except jesus.

I asked these to other people and no one could give me any straight answers. Thats why this is the last place im looking. I figured this site is good for getting answers where just about everyone is an lds member and come from different backgrounds. So if anyone can hellp I will be greatly appreciative. I am not trying to challenge anyone's faith either, If I am going to join something, I am going to be completley prepared for whatever it is I am going for. thank you

no problem I'd be happy to answer what i can. hope this helps :)

[Guest]

On the boasting...

That quote is from Joseph Smith's speech to the dissenters in Nauvoo. It was not canon nor was it a speech given in his capacity as Prophet/Seer/Revelator. It was given as a man trying to bolster the spirits of the people of Nauvoo and to address the persecutors of the Church and try to clear his name from accusations.

The phrase that was quoted does not imply that Joseph Smith did more than Jesus. The phrase was from a promise - that neither Paul, Peter, and Jesus (in His earthly ministry) organized the earthly structure of the church that kept the priesthood to the fullness of times. But, that this time, the Church that he organized is going to be the last dispensation - until the fullness of times - and he pointed out that the church is still behind him even then.

He didn't claim he was better than Jesus. Jesus is the Eternal Church. There's nothing greater than that as far as church organization is concerned. The church on earth - whose organization has flowed and ebbed through the times - is what Joseph Smith is referring to.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Just_A_Guy
Deleted link

[HiJolly]

#5

In the early days of the Church, things such as this were spoken from the pulpit. In fact, *much* speculation and personal opinion was freely given in the early days of the church, including belief in reincarnation (called "Multiple Mortal Probations") and much more.

To find these, one should take a look at the online Journal of Discourses. There's thousands of examples there. Maybe that's one reason the Church started the correlation committee. :-)

HJ

[Just_A_Guy]

The Joseph Smith speech in question is hosted on several websites, most of them anti-Mormon. Below is the full entry from the History of the Church for that date:

Sunday, 26.—At 10 A.M. I preached at the Stand. The following synopsis was reported by Mr. Thos. Bullock, clerk of the steamer, Maid of Iowa.

Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.

President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. 2 Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster; I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down—but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.

God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil—all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. They have got wonderful things in the land of Ham. I think the grand jury have strained at a gnat and swallowed the camel.

A man named Simpson says I made an affidavit against him, &c. Mr. Simpson says I arrested him. I never arrested Mr. Simpson in my life. He says I made an affidavit against him, I never made an affidavit against him in my life. I will prove it in court. I will tell you how it was: Last winter I got ready with my children to go to the farm to kill hogs. Orrin P. Rockwell was going to drive. An Englishman came in and wanted a private conversation with me. I told him I did not want any private conversations. "I demand one of you!" Such a one I am bound to obey anyhow. Said he—"I want a warrant against the man who stabbed Brother Badham. He said it was a man who boarded at Davis'. He said it was Mr. Simpson—it answered his description. I said I had no jurisdiction out of the city. He said—"The man must be arrested, or else he will go away." I told him—"You must go to Squire Wells, Johnson, or Foster." Mr. Lytle stepped up and said—"I am a policeman." I jumped into my carriage, and away I went.

When I came back I met Mr. Jackson. He said—"You did wrong in arresting Mr. Simpson." I told him I did not do it. I went over and sat down, and related the circumstances. He turned round and said—"Mr. Smith, I have nothing against you; I am satisfied." He went and supped with me. He declared in the presence of witnesses, that he had nothing against me. I then said—I will go over to Esquire Johnson, and testify what the Englishman told me." I told him not to make out that I believe he is the man, but that I believe he is innocent. I don't want to swear that he is the man. Messrs. Coolidge, Rockwell, Hatfield, and Hawes were present.

Mr. Johnson made one [a complaint] out in due form: and as I sat down in a bustle the same as I do when one of the clerks brings a deed for me to sign. Johnson read it. I said—"I can't swear to that affidavit; I don't believe it, tear up that paper." Mr. Simpson agreed to come before Badham and make it up. I did not swear to it [i. e. to the complaint.]

After a while, Dr. Foster and others came in. They called me up to testify. I told it all the same as I do here. Mr. Simpson rose up, and asked—"Do you believe now that I am the man who stabbed Mr. Badham?" I replied—"No sir, I do not now, nor ever did: the magistrate says I did not swear to it." He considered, and made a public declaration that he was satisfied with me.

Aaron Johnson went before the grand jury and swore I did not swear to it. when Dr. Foster goes and swears that I swore to it, and that he was in the room when he was not in. Chauncey wanted me to stay and have a conversation. Dr. Foster asked Aaron Johnson for the writ and affidavit. He handed them to Dr. Foster, who read them, and then threw them into the fire. I said—"Doctor, you ought not to have burned it; it was my paper." Dr. Foster goes to the grand jury and swears he did not burn only one; but I say he burnt both. This is a fair sample of the swearing that is going on against me.

The last discharge was the 40th; now the 41st, 42nd, 43rd; all through falsehood. Matters of fact are as profitable as the Gospel, and which I can prove. You will then know who are liars, and who speak the truth I want to retain your friendship on holy grounds.

Another indictment has been got up against me. It appears a holy prophet has arisen up, and he has testified against me; the reason is, he is so holy. The Lord knows I do not care how many churches are in the world. As many as believe me, may. If the doctrine that I preach is true, the tree must be good. I have prophesied things that have come to pass, and can still.

Inasmuch as there is a new church, this must be old, and of course we ought to be set down as orthodox. From henceforth let all the churches now no longer persecute orthodoxy. I never built upon any other man's ground. I never told the old Catholic that he was a fallen true prophet God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.

William Law testified before forty policemen, and the assembly room full of witnesses, that he testified under oath that he never had heard or seen or knew anything immoral or criminal against me. He testified under oath that he was my friend, and not the "Brutus." There was a cogitation who was the "Brutus." I had not prophesied against William Law. He swore under oath that he was satisfied that he was ready to lay down his life for me, and he swears that I have committed adultery.

I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me. I am quite tired of the fools asking me.

A man asked me whether the commandment was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery. I never had any fuss with these men until that Female Relief Society brought out the paper against adulterers and adulteresses.

Dr. Goforth was invited into the Laws' clique, and Dr. Foster and the clique were dissatisfied with that document, and they rush away and leave the Church, and conspire to take away my life; and because I will not countenance such wickedness, they proclaim that I have been a true prophet, but that I am now a fallen prophet.

Jackson has committed murder, robbery, and perjury; and I can prove it by half-a-dozen witnesses. Jackson got up and said—"By God, he is innocent," and now swears that I am guilty. He threatened my life.

There is another Law, not the prophet, who was cashiered for dishonesty and robbing the government. Wilson Law also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery. Brother Jonathan Dunham can swear to the contrary. I have been chained. I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for the truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.

When I love the poor, I ask no favors of the rich. I can go to the cross—I can lay down my life; but don't forsake me. I want the friendship of my brethren.—Let us teach the things of Jesus Christ. Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a downfall.

Be meek and lowly, upright and pure; render good for evil. If you bring on yourselves your own destruction, I will complain. It is not right for a man to bare down his neck to the oppressor always. Be humble and patient in all circumstances of life; we shall then triumph more gloriously. What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors.

I then sent Mr. Backenstos, when they declared that they were my enemies. I told Mr. Backenstos that he might tell the Laws, if they had any cause against me I would go before the Church, and confess it to the world. He [Wm. Law] was summoned time and again, but refused to come. Dr. Bernhisel and Elder Rigdon know that I speak the truth. I cite you to Captain Dunham, Esquires Johnson and Wells, Brother Hatfield and others, for the truth of what I have said. I have said this to let my friends know that I am right.

As I grow older, my heart grows tenderer for you. I am at all times willing to give up everything that is wrong, for I wish this people to have a virtuous leader, I have set your minds at liberty by letting you know the things of Christ Jesus. When I shrink not from your defense will you throw me away for a new man who slanders you? I love you for your reception of me. Have I asked you for your money? No; you know better. I appeal to the poor. I say, Cursed be that man or woman who says that I have taken of your money unjustly. Brother Babbitt will address you. I have nothing in my heart but good feelings.

I rode out in the afternoon. On my return, my lawyers, Col. Richardson and Almon W. Babbitt, called upon me on the subject of the writs which were out against me.

Threat to Kidnap Jeremiah Smith.

A man called and informed me that John Eagle and several others intended to kidnap Jeremiah Smith during the night. I therefore stationed an extra police in order to protect him.

President Brigham Young arrived at Cincinnati at 5 P.M.