Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable?

[applepansy]

Somehow in this discussion the steps of repentance as understood by LDS doctrine have not been brought up. Or I missed it while reading through this thread.

The steps or repentance are:

Confess (ask forgiveness)

Fix it (restitution)

Don’t repeat

In the case of 1st degree murder, even if the person confesses and doesn't repeat, how do they fix it?

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.

D&C 42:18-19 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come. And again, I say, thou shalt not kill; but he that killeth shall die.

If a person confesses and then is executed for the crime, does't that fill the requirements? OR are these scriptures (especially D&C) talking about spiritual death as well?

[Jamie123]

The steps or repentance are:

Confess (ask forgiveness)

Fix it (restitution)

Don’t repeat

I've always found the "forgiveness is contingent upon not repeating" the most difficult part of all this. I know murder is a difficult sin to "drift into" through weakness etc., but what about other, lesser sins? When I confess my sins, I know that in all probability I will commit these same sins again, so taken literally these "steps of repentance" aren't a great deal of use. I could only interpret this as "have a genuine resolve to try not to repeat, and if you do commit the sin again, then understand you will need to go through the process of repentance once again".

[MarginOfError]

To develop my last point even further, in cases where Double Jeopardy has applied and a person can no longer be punished by the American justice system even if they confess, is there any hope for them?

I say no again. I say no because through the trial, the defendent was asked repeatedly to confess to what they have done. The first few times is heartbreaking for a guilty person to feel that heart tug to open the floodgates and reveal the crime they have committed. The desire to confess one's guilt is given to us by God to open up a path to reconciliation when we have seriously erred. When that mechanism is ignored time and time again, as is the case with someone being tried for murder, the heart becomes hardened and the decision to conceal one's guilt solidified. This is why we are warned repeatedly not to harden our hearts in Scripture. Those of us who do become "locked in" to a path leading straight to damnation; not because of God's unwillingness to forgive, but because of our unwillingness to repent.

Shudder the thought that we should ever take that course!

I'm with slamjet...failure to confess now does not preclude a person from confessing later. There has been great effort in the Church to distinguish between temporal (or intermediate) judgment and final judgment. Final judgment belongs to Christ alone, and I would interpret what you've said here to be a final judgment.

You see, it's here that we get into LDS teaching on the subject. My experience is that most Mormons don't believe this because they don't want to. What I find repugnant is the idea that murder is just like any other sin, and you just pull the slot machine lever and get the same result you get for gossip, fibbing, or any number of venial sins. Murder is such a serious and grievious offense that, although I don't fully agree with what you said, I'm in sync with you in addressing the grave nature of this offense. Paul considered his life of fervent service to the Church of God to be an act of pennance for how he persecuted Christians, assisting in their deaths. It's not an issue of whether or not Paul was forgiven, but rather it highlighted how much he dreaded the memory of what he did and used it as a catylist to do even more good.

Forgiveness for murder is not like forgiveness for any other sin. It should be sought desperately with all intent to make ammends and it cannot be concealed from God or man. Mercy for this sin should be hoped for, but never assumed. It seems too many Christians think it a commodity to be meted out in a perfunctory manner. I'm more in line with your position than theirs.

Mercy should never be assumed for any sin unless repentance is performed. Even then, after true repentance, mercy can only be assumed if one has made a covenant that requires it of the Lord.

Can a person receive forgiveness from the Lord for murder? Sure. But they'll have to satisfy the Lord's terms for gaining that repentance. Am I 100% sure what those terms are? Nope.

What I do know is that once our temporal justice system has done its work, it is my duty and responsibility to treat every individual with compassion and do everything I can to bring them to Christ. I don't see a lot of that going on with the person in question.

Hello,

As far as I understand LDS doctrine, cold blooded murder is an unforgivable sin....And a person who has committed murder is not even allowed to be baptized into the LDS church once they have done this.

They may be baptized with First Presidency approval. While I understand that this does not happen often, it is a theoretical possibility.

As far as Paul goes, I don't know; however, I believe he was fully forgiven of his sins in order to become a representative of Christ and His church....

I agree with Bytor's and Rameumpton's posts on this. Murder is an unforgivable sin according to LDS doctrine, repented of or not....

Again, if Christ sees fit to forgive a murderer, he will do so. It really isn't our place to decide if he will or he won't. In fact, doing so is an act that sits on the fringe of blasphemy.

[Guest Sachi001]

“You must be innocent, or you cannot come up before God: if

we would come before God, we must keep ourselves pure, as He

is pure. The devil has great power to deceive; he will so transform

things as to make one gape at those who are doing the will

of God. . . . Iniquity must be purged out from the midst of the

Saints; then the veil will be rent, and the blessings of heaven will

flow down—they will roll down like the Mississippi river.”6

“Let not any man publish his own righteousness, for others

can see that for him; sooner let him confess his sins, and then he

will be forgiven, and he will bring forth more fruit.”7

“All hearts must repent and be pure, and God will regard them

and bless them in a manner that they could not be blessed in any

other way.”8

From Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith

Chapter 5 Repentance page 72

“The infidel will grasp at every straw for help until death stares

him in the face, and then his infidelity takes its flight, for the realities

of the eternal world are resting upon him in mighty power;

and when every earthly support and prop fails him, he then sensibly

feels the eternal truths of the immortality of the soul. We

should take warning and not wait for the death-bed to repent; as

we see the infant taken away by death, so may the youth and

middle aged, as well as the infant be suddenly called into eternity.

Let this, then, prove as a warning to all not to procrastinate

repentance, or wait till a death-bed, for it is the will of God that

man should repent and serve Him in health, and in the strength

and power of his mind, in order to secure His blessing, and not

wait until he is called to die.”11

From Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith

Chapter 5 Repentance page 73

This is LDS Doctrine from the Prophet Joseph smith himself. You must repent long before you are dying. Last minute does not count. God does not appreciate the hypocrite.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Sachi001

[Blackmarch]

Now that we got the verdict that Casey Anthony is going to get away with murder, I'd like to ask, can a person who refuses to confess murder be forgiven?

No, I don't mean privately asking God for forgiveness. I mean going to the police, confessing the crime, and taking the punishment for it. Will a person receive the mercy of heaven when they shunned the justice of man?

Matthew 5 (NKJV)

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

You see, I believe it's absolutely impossible to be forgiven for murder when it remains concealed. God's mercy in the afterlife is contingent on being reconciled to man, a fact alluded to here in this gospel passage. Even if that reconciliation means death, a person may then hope and pray for mercy when they stand before God; having paid a temporal price for their sin. I am convinced to the depths of my soul that if somebody kills another and then hides it from the authorities, they have no chance of salvation even if they seek it diligently with tears on bended knee.

As an odd quirk of the American justice system, even if Casey Anthony confessed it now, she could not be punished because of Double Jeopardy. The non guilty verdict may be to her and those like her (OJ Simpson) an inescapable sentence to eternal punishment in hell.

What do you think?

1st off; I do not know if she did or not, perhaps she did, perhaps she did not.

One thing to keep in mind that the only unforgiveable offense is the rejection of the holy spirit.... and there have been prophets who have said that basically murder amounts to that (however that was their intrepretation).

If a person kills another innocent in anger or for gain, especially if they know its wrong in the first place it's hard to see how such could recieve forgiveness, if thats possible- and that judgement is going to lie with God.

If such a person at some point tries to come clean by confessing, willing to pay whatever price, and doing all the good they can at a later date, then isn't it our duty to help them so that even if that is the slightest possiblitiy of being forgiven is to give them as much a possible a chance at recieving it?

As for Casey anthony, unless an individual has good knowledge otherwise, the verdict of innocence has been given, so that is what we should assume at least until she confesses otherwise.

[bytor2112]

Yet Nephi killed. So did Captain Moroni, and Mormon, and Moroni. Joseph Smith fired off a pistol at his assassination in an attempt to kill. Soldiers in armed conflicts kill each other all the time. Odds are you know people who have killed others.

Obviously, kill=murder as referenced in the D & C quote.

[bytor2112]

You see, it's here that we get into LDS teaching on the subject. My experience is that most Mormons don't believe this because they don't want to. What I find repugnant is the idea that murder is just like any other sin, and you just pull the slot machine lever and get the same result you get for gossip, fibbing, or any number of venial sins. Murder is such a serious and grievious offense that, although I don't fully agree with what you said, I'm in sync with you in addressing the grave nature of this offense. Paul considered his life of fervent service to the Church of God to be an act of pennance for how he persecuted Christians, assisting in their deaths. It's not an issue of whether or not Paul was forgiven, but rather it highlighted how much he dreaded the memory of what he did and used it as a catylist to do even more good.

Forgiveness for murder is not like forgiveness for any other sin. It should be sought desperately with all intent to make ammends and it cannot be concealed from God or man. Mercy for this sin should be hoped for, but never assumed. It seems too many Christians think it a commodity to be meted out in a perfunctory manner. I'm more in line with your position than theirs.

I don't think you will find any Latter Day Saints that think murder is like any other sin. As far as sin goes: From Alma, we believe that sexual sin, is more abominable than all other sins except murder and denying the Holy Ghost.

Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?

6For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

Since we believe that there are different kingdoms of glory, surely the murderer can find forgiveness and an inheritance in of the kingdoms of glory...AFTER:( D & C) they pay for their own sins.

15Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

[bytor2112]

Firstly we don't know that Simpson and Antony were guilty. That is why they were acquitted. People were making the same sort of "we-know-he-did-it" comments about Colin Stagg after his acquittal in 1994 (when the UK still had a strong double jeapardy law) and he was later proved to be completely innocent!

Secondly, even assuming that they are guilty, do you think God's grace so weak that it depends on the decisions of juries? I'm sure that sincere confession and meaningful repentance - including some form of self-imposed penance - would still be acceptable to God. He's forgiven some worse sinners than either of these!

Sins that need to be confessed to Priesthood authority, i.e....adultery or fornication let's say. These sins can surely be abandoned and not repented. Lesser sins that we struggle with, a lustful eye or stretching the truth or.....whatever, that doesn't require confession to a Priesthood leader, these sins are not as grave and can be conquered with the atonement over time.

Remember, repentance means change. To truly repent, one must become the type of person that would never have committed those sins to begin with, that's why repentance takes time and we need assistance from out ecclesiastical leaders....not to be forgiven, but to be deemed worthy to continue with all the blessings that the Lord's church can provide. Only the Lord forgives sin.

[Vort]

Obviously, kill=murder as referenced in the D & C quote.

Agreed. But the point is, "murder" is a legal term. It is not well-defined in a theological sense. In the more distant past, you could legally kill your slave, or even your child, with no legal repercussions. It wasn't "murder", even if polite society didn't approve. In the recent past, taking someone off life support might be considered euthanasia, a form of murder.

Today, in some places it is "murder" to kill someone invading your home; you are required by law to retreat, and lethal force is allowed only if retreat is impossible. Yet some states allow you to assist in another person's suicide, under protection of the law. Killing fetuses is perfectly legal up to a certain point; after that, it might be considered murder.

Given that the term "murder" and the nature of the "murderous" act are not universally defined or even agreed on by reasonable members of society, we cannot know perfectly what God considers "murder". So I think it's wise to avoid taking a strong religious or spiritual opinion on the matter of what may and may not be forgiven.

[bytor2112]

Agreed. But the point is, "murder" is a legal term. It is not well-defined in a theological sense. In the more distant past, you could legally kill your slave, or even your child, with no legal repercussions. It wasn't "murder", even if polite society didn't approve. In the recent past, taking someone off life support might be considered euthanasia, a form of murder.

Today, in some places it is "murder" to kill someone invading your home; you are required by law to retreat, and lethal force is allowed only if retreat is impossible. Yet some states allow you to assist in another person's suicide, under protection of the law. Killing fetuses is perfectly legal up to a certain point; after that, it might be considered murder.

Given that the term "murder" and the nature of the "murderous" act are not universally defined or even agreed on by reasonable members of society, we cannot know perfectly what God considers "murder". So I think it's wise to avoid taking a strong religious or spiritual opinion on the matter of what may and may not be forgiven.

True. I am happy that Heavenly Father is in charge and will sort it all out. I think it is reasonable to assume that if we take the life of someone with malice in our heart that is likely murder and given that the Lord will judge our hearts....certainly justice will be served and mercy applied in the wisdom of the Lord.

[Jamie123]

Sins that need to be confessed to Priesthood authority, i.e....adultery or fornication let's say. These sins can surely be abandoned and not repented. Lesser sins that we struggle with, a lustful eye or stretching the truth or.....whatever, that doesn't require confession to a Priesthood leader, these sins are not as grave and can be conquered with the atonement over time.

Remember, repentance means change. To truly repent, one must become the type of person that would never have committed those sins to begin with, that's why repentance takes time and we need assistance from out ecclesiastical leaders....not to be forgiven, but to be deemed worthy to continue with all the blessings that the Lord's church can provide. Only the Lord forgives sin.

I think you're responding to the wrong post here. The point I was making was that God's power to forgive is not (or should not be) limited by the decisions of earthly law courts, which was what Saintmichaeldefendthem1 seemed to be suggesting. Traditionally Catholics, Mormons and some Anglicans do believe that priesthood authority is needed to obtain grace, while most other Protestants say that a believer's own "priesthood" (which he holds by virtue of his faith) is sufficient. Either way, I don't see the decisions of jurors intervening in the process.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I'm with slamjet...failure to confess now does not preclude a person from confessing later. There has been great effort in the Church to distinguish between temporal (or intermediate) judgment and final judgment. Final judgment belongs to Christ alone, and I would interpret what you've said here to be a final judgment.

I'm still learning the differences between LDS belief and that of Protestants for whom one's temporal life represents the only and hard window for repentence.

Mercy should never be assumed for any sin unless repentance is performed. Even then, after true repentance, mercy can only be assumed if one has made a covenant that requires it of the Lord.

A good token that mercy is being sought is to confess one's sins against man to man. Especially when it involves murder.

What I do know is that once our temporal justice system has done its work, it is my duty and responsibility to treat every individual with compassion and do everything I can to bring them to Christ. I don't see a lot of that going on with the person in question.

I don't see a lot of similarity between this and the Catholic teaching on Purgatory. Purgatory is not a second chance for those who die in a state of mortal sin (murder). It's a purging process for those who lived righteously, having repented of their mortal sins and are destined for heaven. The LDS teaching, as represented here, seems an awful lot like a "second chance" for those who have already fulfilled the terms for eternal loss and perdition.

Again, if Christ sees fit to forgive a murderer, he will do so. It really isn't our place to decide if he will or he won't. In fact, doing so is an act that sits on the fringe of blasphemy.

No, that doesn't come anywhere near blasphemy. I think anyone entertaining the idea that they can simply confess murder to God but not reconcile that sin with man should be warned that their soul is in jeopardy.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I don't think you will find any Latter Day Saints that think murder is like any other sin. As far as sin goes: From Alma, we believe that sexual sin, is more abominable than all other sins except murder and denying the Holy Ghost.

But they don't want to believe it's unforgiveable.

Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?

6For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

Since we believe that there are different kingdoms of glory, surely the murderer can find forgiveness and an inheritance in of the kingdoms of glory...AFTER:( D & C) they pay for their own sins.

15Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

I'm having a hard time reconciling that murder cannot be forgiven, but that a murderer may, in the end, still have eternal life.

[bytor2112]

Saint: It is because we believe that Christ's atonement is Infinite and Eternal and in our faith, Eternal Life =Exaltation. Meaning returning to live with Heavenly Father. All mankind will be resurrected and receive a kingdom of Glory, but only the most valiant will ever return to the Father.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Saint: It is because we believe that Christ's atonement is Infinite and Eternal and in our faith, Eternal Life =Exaltation. Meaning returning to live with Heavenly Father. All mankind will be resurrected and receive a kingdom of Glory, but only the most valiant will ever return to the Father.

So then the LDS believe in universal salvation and deny the existence of hell?

[Dravin]

So then the LDS believe in universal salvation and deny the existence of hell?

For LDS Hell can refer to one of two places:

1. Spirit Prison where the gospel is taught to those who didn't receive it in this life and where those who didn't accept it dwell until the resurrection and being judged.

2. Outer Darkness where sons of perdition go and who will receive no part of the Glory of God. This one is probably closest to the traditional Christian concepts of hell if we are picking from the two.

Bytor overstated his case. While all will be resurrected (who walked this earth in a physical body), there are some, the Sons of Perdition, who will not receive a Kingdom of Glory. So no, we don't believe in a universal Salvation or Exaltation. The guide to the Scriptures has a decent description of who qualifies as a Son of Perdition:

The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality, and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35).

Link: Sons of Perdition

This link here has some more information on what we know about who qualifies for Outer Darkness and the kingdoms of glory: Kingdoms of Glory (click on "Additional Information" to get the breakdown).

Edited July 8, 2011 by Dravin

[Traveler]

Just for clarification. Refusal to repent for any sin disqualifies that lover of sin more than the lover of G-d from eternal life. Confession of sin is part of repentance. I personally believe it to be much easier to confess before man than G-d - mostly because all men are in need of repentance and must confess so we are all in that same boat.

I would also point out that refusal to forgive is a worse sin than whatever may have been committed against us -or what we think was committed against others. So to not forgive someone of murder is worse than the murder. I am not saying that forgives means to be stupid but it does mean that we remove the canker of bitterness from our heart. We can still help others, we can still be concerned but not with bitterness.

So I categorize the danger of sin as follows:

#1 worse possible sin -> refuse to forgive.

#2 worse possible sin -> murder

#3 worse possible sin -> Adultery within the covenant of eternal marriage.

#4 worse possible sin -> Adultery within the covenant of non-eternal marriage sanctioned by civil law.

#5 worse possible sin -> Immorality or sexual sin outside of G-d prescribed order of marriage

#6 worse possible sin -> Involvement in the use of habitual substances.

#7 worse possible sin -> whatever is left.

By definition the result of sin is death and the ancient designation of death is hell. So Hell is where we get to sin all we want and not have to repent. Some think such a place would be heaven to them.

The Traveler

[Vort]

So to not forgive someone of murder is worse than the murder.

Sorry, Traveler, but this is simply absurd. I do not believe it, and I don't think you believe it, either.

[Dravin]

Sorry, Traveler, but this is simply absurd. I do not believe it, and I don't think you believe it, either.

I take it your issue is with the extension of the principle to such 'high' levels of sin rather than the principle itself?

[Vort]

I suppose so, yes.

I think of someone standing before God who has murdered a girl. Then I think of her father, with anger still in his heart, standing before God. Am I truly to believe that the father is more culpable in the eyes of God than is his daughter's murderer?

[Guest Sachi001]

I would also point out that refusal to forgive is a worse sin than whatever may have been committed against us -or what we think was committed against others. So to not forgive someone of murder is worse than the murder. I am not saying that forgives means to be stupid but it does mean that we remove the canker of bitterness from our heart. We can still help others, we can still be concerned but not with bitterness.

By definition the result of sin is death and the ancient designation of death is hell. So Hell is where we get to sin all we want and not have to repent. Some think such a place would be heaven to them.

The Traveler

Traveler the scripture states

Matt 6:14,15

14For if ye aforgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye aforgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Whereas I agree to not forgive is a rebuking of Fathers mandate. However you seem to be linking repentance of sin that equates with judgement of finality by God. You are speculating by your interpretation. HF has not revealed to anyone such.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

For LDS Hell can refer to one of two places:

1. Spirit Prison where the gospel is taught to those who didn't receive it in this life and where those who didn't accept it dwell until the resurrection and being judged.

2. Outer Darkness where sons of perdition go and who will receive no part of the Glory of God. This one is probably closest to the traditional Christian concepts of hell if we are picking from the two.

Bytor overstated his case. While all will be resurrected (who walked this earth in a physical body), there are some, the Sons of Perdition, who will not receive a Kingdom of Glory. So no, we don't believe in a universal Salvation or Exaltation. The guide to the Scriptures has a decent description of who qualifies as a Son of Perdition:

Thank you for clarifying. Now I see what Bytor was saying. I am aware of the multiple tiers of Mormon heaven, but I was sure they also believed in hell. I'm going to go out on a limb here just based on reasoning to suggest that in your theology, those who seek repentence and remission after death are those who were predisposed to in their life. They were oriented toward reconciliation in their life and were given a chance, post mortem, to complete their intended course. There are all sorts of reasons why a person might not possess the faculties for a proper confession during life.

I'm also guessing that Mormons have noticed something that Protestants seem to ignore. That in speaking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, Jesus makes reference to forgiveness in this life and the life to come; which brings into question the Protestant insistance that any such transaction must happen during this mortal life. I have no documented evidence that this is what you believe, but I'm trying to make your perspective fit the Scriptures as best I can.

If my impression is right, then I would still posit that a murderer that evades the justice of man, even if he asked for the forgiveness of God, would not receive it in this life or the life to come. That person was trying to purchase fire insurance and wasn't truly sorry for what he had done. True sorrow would lead invariably to confession to the authorities, regardless of the temporal penalty, that is beyond question. Being disinclined toward true repentence in this life, this person will not repent in a state of purgatory either.

[Guest Sachi001]

Thank you for clarifying. Now I see what Bytor was saying. I am aware of the multiple tiers of Mormon heaven, but I was sure they also believed in hell. I'm going to go out on a limb here just based on reasoning to suggest that in your theology, those who seek repentance and remission after death are those who were predisposed to in their life. They were oriented toward reconciliation in their life and were given a chance, post mortem, to complete their intended course. There are all sorts of reasons why a person might not possess the faculties for a proper confession during life.

It's a little more indepth on that. All sons of perdition are sentenced to the outer darkness. A life of torment in otherwords. All others before the final judgment go to the Spirit World sub divided to Spirit Paradise and Spirit Prison. Where those there can work on better edifying themselves and perfecting themselves to receive the higher 3 glories should their attitudes and faults be corrected if they choose to. The 3 glories are Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial. Reference toward Pauls assertion of the Stars, Moon, and Sun in relation.

I'm also guessing that Mormons have noticed something that Protestants seem to ignore. That in speaking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, Jesus makes reference to forgiveness in this life and the life to come; which brings into question the Protestant insistence that any such transaction must happen during this mortal life. I have no documented evidence that this is what you believe, but I'm trying to make your perspective fit the Scriptures as best I can.

Mark3:29

29But he that shall ablaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never bforgiveness, but is in danger of ceternal damnation:

It does not necessarily mean a damnation in the Outer Kingdom. It may be well that you will work on being a better spirit but shall not enter the Celestial kingdom. Such as the parable of the ten virgins and the door is shut.

If my impression is right, then I would still posit that a murderer that evades the justice of man, even if he asked for the forgiveness of God, would not receive it in this life or the life to come. That person was trying to purchase fire insurance and wasn't truly sorry for what he had done. True sorrow would lead invariably to confession to the authorities, regardless of the temporal penalty, that is beyond question. Being disinclined toward true repentance in this life, this person will not repent in a state of purgatory either.

That is not the case in Mormon theology. If a man is repentant and atoning then he may be forgiven. Yes heaven forbid even if Hitler was such, but he wasn't. However this is contingent upon when he/she was repentant. If at the time of mortal death then it would be recognized as hypocrisy and mockery of the Lords teachings and not recognized (Teachings of the Presidents:Joseph Smith Chapter 5). If while in health to do works in relation to penitence then it can be recognized. This is why the lord reserves judgment alone and we cannot judge. This is why works is just as important as grace which others argue that retrospect as well.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

It's a little more indepth on that. All sons of perdition are sentenced to the outer darkness. A life of torment in otherwords. All others before the final judgment go to the Spirit World sub divided to Spirit Paradise and Spirit Prison. Where those there can work on better edifying themselves and perfecting themselves to receive the higher 3 glories should their attitudes and faults be corrected if they choose to. The 3 glories are Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial. Reference toward Pauls assertion of the Stars, Moon, and Sun in relation.

Now this part of it seems similar to Purgatory where a person is prepared for heaven through a process that rids them of imperfection. There is pain and torment involved in the sense that we are being purged of our most cherished sins. It's similar to how, in this life, when we give up something, a habit we are attached to, it's painful, but there's joy in surrendering it. The same process is brought to finality in Purgatory so that we are impeccable, not only in the record of our sin, but in the love of it.

Mark3:29

29But he that shall ablaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never bforgiveness, but is in danger of ceternal damnation:

It does not necessarily mean a damnation in the Outer Kingdom. It may be well that you will work on being a better spirit but shall not enter the Celestial kingdom. Such as the parable of the ten virgins and the door is shut.

I was actually referring to the last part "in this age or the age to come" which indicates clearly that not all mercy transactions happen during life.

That is not the case in Mormon theology. If a man is repentant and atoning then he may be forgiven. Yes heaven forbid even if Hitler was such, but he wasn't. However this is contingent upon when he/she was repentant. If at the time of mortal death then it would be recognized as hypocrisy and mockery of the Lords teachings and not recognized (Teachings of the Presidents:Joseph Smith Chapter 5). If while in health to do works in relation to penitence then it can be recognized. This is why the lord reserves judgment alone and we cannot judge. This is why works is just as important as grace which others argue that retrospect as well.

As a Catholic, I do believe in death bed confessions. However I'm troubled by the teaching that someone wholly indispensed toward repentence in this life is afforded yet another chance in the afterlife when the stakes are all gain or all loss. In the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man went to hell because he chose comfort in this life and ignored the plight of the poor even when it was at his very gate. To allow final negotiations after this life that are contrary to our disposition here on earth is to make unimportant the choices we make in this life.

[Traveler]

Sorry, Traveler, but this is simply absurd. I do not believe it, and I don't think you believe it, either.

D&C 64:9

9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the L-rd; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.

If I were you I would be very careful what and who I accuse of being absurd.

The Traveler