What Lies Ahead...

[lds2]

President Boyd K. Packer and Elder Allan F. Packer have both been talking about the times ahead (at least according to my relative and friends that have lived in wards where they have unofficially spoken.) Since we aren't supposed to spread notes/rumors of such addresses I was wondering if they have been saying similar things in their talks lately and they have!!!

"To gain courage for what lies ahead, we need to be connected to the gospel of Jesus Christ."..."This is not a time to be naive, unprepared, or unaware."..."We need to have the Spirit and look to the prophets and our priesthood leaders for guidance."

Elder Allan F. Packer of the Seventy, Ensign, Aug. 2011, Solidly Anchored in Our Testimonies

He also told of these quotes in his talk...(I have heard that Elder Packer is also related to the Ballard's FWIW)

Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles spoke to the students at BYU-I about the last days. He spoke of the fulfillment of prophecies and the fallibility men. A common link in his talk was the admonition for students to strengthen their testimonies in preparation for what lies ahead. He went on to say, “I [do not] want … to frighten you but to wake you up.” He then said, “We’re in the last days—you can quote me on that. And it is moving more rapidly.”

M. Russell Ballard in “Treasure Truth and Prepare for the Future,” Church News, Feb. 13, 2010, 3.

“Your generation is filled with uncertainties. A life of fun and games and expensive toys has come to an abrupt end. We move from a generation of ease and entertainment to a generation of hard work and responsibility. We do not know how long that will last...“It may seem that the world is in commotion; and it is! It may seem that there are wars and rumors of wars; and there are! It may seem that the future will hold trials and difficulties for you; and it will! However, fear is the opposite of faith. Do not be afraid! I do not fear.”

Boyd K. Packer, “Counsel to Young Men,” Ensign, May 2009, 52.

and this scripture was also referenced...

2 Timothy 3:1–6 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

I posted this before but didn't realize it would be a problem posting articles from the Ensign...hopefully this will be okay...to read the article see it here...

Solidly Anchored in Our Testimonies - Ensign Aug. 2011

Edited September 28, 2011 by lds2

[lds2]

I thought about President Packer's quote as some might say that this hasn't happened, but then I read this article and related it to whom he was talking ...it seems prophetic...

"The unemployment rate for young Americans has exploded to 52.2 percent -- a post-World War II high, according to the Labor Dept. -- meaning millions of Americans are staring at the likelihood that their lifetime earning potential will be diminished and, combined with the predicted slow economic recovery, their transition into productive members of society could be put on hold for an extended period of time."

The dead end kids - NYPOST.com

[Traveler]

I am going to rant a little bit here. Never before have we had a generation that thinks it does not have to work more than this current generation. (my opinion) As a youth I picked fruit, moved sprinkler pipe, worked through the nights (and mud) on irrigation turns, slaughtered chickens, worked in sewers (so smelly I threw up) and many other things that this generation thinks is “undignified” work and working conditions.

Many of this generation take sick leave - when they are not sick; fully believing they are “entitled”. Let’s not confuse lazy with not being able and willing to work. The sun just did not come up one day and suddenly there was not enough work to be done.

The Traveler

[lds2]

To me there seemed to be a message in General Conference of "we are all in this together." I was told President Monson said it, and President Uchtdorf said (from my notes)

"In the Lord's plan there is something everyone can contribute. The lesson we learn generation after generation is that rich and poor are all under the same sacred obligation to help their neighbor. It will take all of us, working together to successfully apply the principals of welfare and self-reliance."

So we are all in what together? So...what is coming and how can we be as self-reliant as possible to meet those challenges?

I think too many people just think, "good, if things get bad I'll just be among the poor and others will take care of me and my family"...but how can we take care of the needy as we are commanded and have covenanted to do, if everyones plan if things get really bad, is to be counted among them? The Church has said that they will do all they can but they can't do it all, that every familly who's capable needs to be prepared to be responsible for themselves, help their neighbors and then the poor and needy. President Uchtdorf said a lot about the Priesthood's responsiiblity to do so...

[lds2]

President Uchtdorf in the Priesthood session said, "It will take all of us working together to successfully apply the principles of welfare and self-reliance." So my question is what's going to happen to the government checks that most people get now...?

Then President Eyring said, "We are being prepared for priesthood service that will become more challenging with time." and "it is to form a habit of pushing on through the fatigue and fear that might make you think of quitting...staying power comes from working past the point when others would have taken a rest." Wow, most of us don't even want to think about working that hard.

Then President Monson said, "Lest we at any time feel inadequate for the tasks ahead for us" he reminds us that we were reserved for 6,000 years to come forth in this generation because we are among God's strongest children. He tells us that we cannot afford to do anything that would stop the ministering of angels in our behalf.

[skippy740]

Elder Packer spoke at our Stake Conference this past Sunday... don't remember anything hinting at this topic.

Then again, I probably wasn't in the 'listening' mood at the time. The most interesting thing I learned was that our stake patriarch's father is also a stake patriarch. I thought that was unique.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble or hijack the thread.

[NeuroTypical]

Totally random happenstance, but I was reading an account by Charles Darwin he made while visiting Argentina. He was asking two unemployed people why they would not work. One said the days were too long, the other said he was too poor to work.

Darwin's next quote stuck with me as much as Elder Packer's quotes: "The number of horses and the profusion of food are the destruction of all industry."

If you've done any reading about Argentina's last few decades of economic woes, I'm sure you'll join me in prayer that Darwin's prophecy not impact the USA the way it impacted Argentina.

[Matthew0059]

The current prophets are preparing their flock for the beginning of the Cleansing of America and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which will pave the way for the foundation of the city of Zion. If you read over the visions of John Taylor, Charles Evans, and even George Washington (there are, of course, many more) you can see the common thread of coming destruction in America. Charles Evans wrote that it will come when "labor is arrayed against capital, and capital against labor" (this seems to be becoming the dominating spirit of this generation; Communist theory of the workers vs. the establishment).

War is coming to America- a war amongst ourselves, and of foreign invasion. Before that, the land itself will roll and churn as if it were revolted at the sins of the American people. Before, during, and after that war desolating scourge and famine takes the lives of tens of millions of people. God will have a righteous people who will not pollute the land of Zion establish that great city- even if His judgments must go forth to the destruction of hundreds of millions of people.

At this point, all the current prophets can do without "tweaking the tail of the Beast" is to warn and exhort the members to prepare themselves spiritually and temporally. Luckily for us, there are also many non-members that are awakening and organizing in preparation for coming tribulations as well- the "prepper" networks are one example.

[mrmarklin]

Not really buying into the idea that the US is headed for destruction. If one closely examines the real prophecies, one must concede that a strong US and other Christian nations is paramount in the future success of God's plans.

The Gospel will be preached to all the world before the last day. Since over 1/2 the world right now doesn't even allow missionary work, this prophecy has a long way to go. But progress is accelerating. Progess depends on more liberal ideals than now extant in most of the world.

I don't believe in a war among ourselves in the USA other than the one we already had ca. 1861. Remember, the New Jersalem will be built here in the USA. I submit that this would be impossible with a total breakdown of society. The Church itself is somewhat dependant on the protection of Western civilization. And in fact contemporary history supports the idea that the world is becoming more liberal rather than less, with the pervasiveness of Western philosophy throughout the world in general.

In 1820 there was 1 democracy, and constant tension among the European powers, leading to many wars during which tens of millions suffered and died. I just returned from a European vacation travelling from Germany to France and Spain. How many times was my passport checked?? That's right: not even.

This would have been unthinkable 190 years ago. So God's hand is leading us toward more liberality. That is the actual trend.

Will there be future problems, wars and suffering? Yes, but only in the context of accomplishing God's objectives.

Edited October 15, 2011 by mrmarklin

[Matthew0059]

Not really buying into the idea that the US is headed for destruction. If one closely examines the real prophecies, one must concede that a strong US and other Christian nations is paramount in the future success of God's plans.

Pray tell, what are the "real" prophecies that supposedly vindicate the current state of the U.S.? I am aware of all the scriptural prophecies, and none of them are not congruent with the idea that we're on the fast track to destruction.

It is nowhere written that Joseph Smith's church, which he established (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) would continue to grow uninterrupted until it sent missionaries to the whole earth. That is how many members interpret it- but that is not what the scriptures teach us.

But progress is accelerating. Progess depends on more liberal ideals than now extant in most of the world.

By "liberal ideals", do you mean the modern understanding of "liberalism" or the "classic liberalism" of the Founding Fathers? I meant the current "liberalism" which champions the Socialist and Communist methods of government, which are inherently godless, though many liberals believe they are serving God by advancing their philosophies and policies.

I don't believe in a war among ourselves in the USA other than the one we already had ca. 1861. Remember, the New Jersalem will be built here in the USA. I submit that this would be impossible with a total breakdown of society.

It would be impossible without the total breakdown of our current society! The last time Zion was trying to come forth (pre-Manifesto) the Federal Government betrayed the free principles of the Founding Fathers and raged against the men of God, using all legal powers they possessed to stop the work of God.

Has the United States gotten more righteous? Are we able to preach the Gospel in public, or to preach correct principles of Government as our forefathers were? Are the most innocent of our citizens- the unborn children inside their mothers' wombs- protected, or are they legally seen as something more akin to tumors than people? Have we not developed a Roman-esque system of "Gladiatorial" games for the idle entertainment of men? Can you even publicly state that the U.S. is based on the Judeo-Christian system of values without being attacked by the faithless "wise men" (professors and scholars) of the day?

No; America has not become more righteous. President Monson mentioned the "moral revolution" that occurred in the '60's in the last General Conference- mentioned and lamented it. President Packard said our children are being raised in "enemy" territory. These and a thousand other testaments, from this past General Conference and all the Conferences before it, testify to the actual direction our society is headed.

I encourage you to search out some of the prophecies of the early Brethren, and their modern counterparts, and fast and pray that God will give you a personal understanding of what the scriptures really teach us about our day.

The Church itself is somewhat dependant on the protection of Western civilization.

Yes it is.

Why do you think it is written in the book of Daniel that the little horn was given power over the Saints of God? Who is it that has power over the Church right now- which is where the Church teaches the Saints of God are located? Whose side was the little horn on- God's or the devil's?

[Guest]

So is this it? Will things circle the drain until most of us are in a near-hopeless state, we congregate in Jackson County, and Zion is formed? Are things so bleak that we won't recover from the damage that's been done in the last decade?

[ConvinceTheWorld]

Not really buying into the idea that the US is headed for destruction.

The united states is much like the Nephites. The settlers were led by the lords hand to the promised land (america) so the restoration of all things could come to pass. We have seriously fell down a deep pit since then. The wickedness and sin that is around us is nowhere near the amount that was here even 100 years ago.

Everyone walks after the lust of their own hearts (myself included) and we constantly are chasing pleasure. "It is better to be in a house of mourning than a house of laughter"

Surely, every civilization since the beginning of time (whether in scripture,textbook, ect) has set a very definite pattern. That pattern being, that when a peoples are righteous they are upheld and prosper...but as soon as they prosper they are quick to forget the lord thy God and they fall into corruption and are inevitibly destroyed, for the consequence of sin is death.

We are awaiting the destruction of the wicked. It is a global event wherein no land or people will be spared.

I for one am rather excited for the times ahead.... I mean, How much more dependent on God would we be if we couldnt go to the grochery store and were dependent on rainfall to eat???

Sounds like paradise to me. Living like the original/Founding Latter-Day Saints to create ZION. The society that we live in today is none other than BABYLON THE GREAT

/Rant_off

.....now gotta get ready for work so that while I am young and I can give my health for money and when I am older I can give my Money for my Health *sigh*

Have a good one guys...

Edited October 15, 2011 by ConvinceTheWorld

[Matthew0059]

So is this it? Will things circle the drain until most of us are in a near-hopeless state, we congregate in Jackson County, and Zion is formed? Are things so bleak that we won't recover from the damage that's been done in the last decade?

The nation itself won't recover- America the nation is doomed to fail, and fail soon.

BUT it has never been a better time to act out of personal initiative to prepare for what is to come. Many members and non-members are working harder to network together and prepare for scarce times ahead (I mentioned the "prepper" networks earlier as one example). There has never been a better time or oppurtunity to renew one's personal commitment to God and the commandments.

The world at large is doomed to fail, but individuals who love God will be upheld by His miraculous power in the coming Tribulations. Do not fear, but have faith! The coming times will be hard, but exciting as well.

By the way, Jackson County (the whole Kansas/Missouri border area too) will be completely desolate for a time before we move in to start Zion.

Follow the Spirit and you'll be okay.

[mrmarklin]

Pray tell, what are the "real" prophecies that supposedly vindicate the current state of the U.S.? I am aware of all the scriptural prophecies, and none of them are not congruent with the idea that we're on the fast track to destruction.

It is nowhere written that Joseph Smith's church, which he established (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) would continue to grow uninterrupted until it sent missionaries to the whole earth. That is how many members interpret it- but that is not what the scriptures teach us.

There IS such a scripture: Daniel 2

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

By "liberal ideals", do you mean the modern understanding of "liberalism" or the "classic liberalism" of the Founding Fathers? I meant the current "liberalism" which champions the Socialist and Communist methods of government, which are inherently godless, though many liberals believe they are serving God by advancing their philosophies and policies.

I do mean classical liberalism, not the Marxist nonsense. But to give you an idea of how pervasive Westrn thought has become, note that the largest and oldest civilization in the world (China) adopted Marxism, a Western idea!!!!

It would be impossible without the total breakdown of our current society! The last time Zion was trying to come forth (pre-Manifesto) the Federal Government betrayed the free principles of the Founding Fathers and raged against the men of God, using all legal powers they possessed to stop the work of God.

I totally disagree. It is necessary that things continue as they are for the church to prosper.

Has the United States gotten more righteous? Are we able to preach the Gospel in public, or to preach correct principles of Government as our forefathers were? Are the most innocent of our citizens- the unborn children inside their mothers' wombs- protected, or are they legally seen as something more akin to tumors than people? Have we not developed a Roman-esque system of "Gladiatorial" games for the idle entertainment of men? Can you even publicly state that the U.S. is based on the Judeo-Christian system of values without being attacked by the faithless "wise men" (professors and scholars) of the day?

No; America has not become more righteous. President Monson mentioned the "moral revolution" that occurred in the '60's in the last General Conference- mentioned and lamented it. President Packard said our children are being raised in "enemy" territory. These and a thousand other testaments, from this past General Conference and all the Conferences before it, testify to the actual direction our society is headed.

I encourage you to search out some of the prophecies of the early Brethren, and their modern counterparts, and fast and pray that God will give you a personal understanding of what the scriptures really teach us about our day.

Yes it is.

Why do you think it is written in the book of Daniel that the little horn was given power over the Saints of God? Who is it that has power over the Church right now- which is where the Church teaches the Saints of God are located? Whose side was the little horn on- God's or the devil's.

I don't deny that great powers of wickedness are arrayed against the Church and its allies, but I submit that for the last 200+ years the Lord's hand is guiding us to ever more liberalism. And that this is necessary for Daniel's prophecy to come true.

In the last ten years western civilization has been made very aware of the forces of Intolerance represented in part by Al Qaeda, and is taking steps to resolve this. It will be a long road of many years to break down the predjudices represented by that sort of civilization, but I am optimistic that it's part of the Lord's plan. The continuing support of Israel by the US and others in the west is also part of the plan, and woe unto us if that support should ever waver, for then we will be ripening in iniquity.

Oranizations such as the European Union, and yes even the hated United Nations, are slowly but surely working in the direction of the fulfilment of Daniel's prophecy. By making the world in general more liberal and democratic.

Edited October 15, 2011 by mrmarklin

[mrmarklin]

I certainly recommend an interesting book 1493 for an idea of how the world became dependant on one another, and the seeds of liberalism have been sown.

And since that early era the world has only become more interdependent. Life without free trade, travel and communication would be intolerable. Yet that is how people in the Dark Ages largely lived before 1493.

LDS are aware of how the Book of Mormon alludes to this progress.

[annewandering]

I shudder to think that people look forward to the trials of the last days. I cant even walk a block and neither can my husband. We are doomed to die very fast. Its not that I mind dying so much its just that when people go looking forward to it as if its going to be a great challenge it seems to me that they dont seem to remember how many are going to suffer and die. Or care?

How many people will die simply because of lack of medicines they need to survive? No. I am not looking forward to that. Its hard already for many of us.

[Matthew0059]

There IS such a scripture: Daniel 2

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The "kingdom of Daniel" (google the term and see how Joseph Smith and the early Brethren used it) refers to the Kingdom of Heaven, or of Zion- not the Church. The Saints tried to bring forth the Kingdom of Heaven in the early days of the Church and failed because of wickedness among the Saints. Since that time, the Kingdom still has yet to come forth, because the nation of Zion is not yet founded.

Kingdom of Daniel = Kingdom of Heaven = Zion (the Mormons failed to bring it forth, and it is currently impossible to do so, as the land that is appointed for Zion to be brought forth is currently overrun with other people)

Kingdom of God = Churches of the Dispensations (of which the most recent is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

I totally disagree. It is necessary that things continue as they are for the church to prosper.

The Church will not continue to prosper much longer... The sons of Ephraim (in Isaiah's day he called them the "drunkards of Ephraim") have failed to bring forth the Kingdom of Zion, despite establishing the Kingdom of God. Brigham Young said that if Ephraim failed, it would be left to Manasseh to take the lead in establishing the Kingdom of Zion.

Notice also in Daniel where it speaks of a little horn making war against the saints and winning until the "Ancient of Days" (Adam) should come. The Church structure, as we know it, will not go forth and break down the kingdoms of the earth- instead the true Saints will be trodden underfoot until God against sends servants akin to Moses and Joseph Smith to save us.

I don't deny that great powers of wickedness are arrayed against the Church and its allies, but I submit that for the last 200+ years the Lord's hand is guiding us to ever more liberalism. And that this is necessary for Daniel's prophecy to come true.

What has happened over the past 200 years- more specifically, the last 100 years- has been a rapid erosion of freedom and morality both inside and outside of the United States. Babylon covers the earth, her dominions are large (as was seen by Nephi) despite the Saints of God also being on the Earth.

In the last ten years western civilization has been made very aware of the forces of Intolerance represented in part by Al Qaeda, and is taking steps to resolve this. It will be a long road of many years to break down the predjudices represented by that sort of civilization, but I am optimistic that it's part of the Lord's plan.

I agree that fundamentalist Islam is intolerant. However, the secret combinations that have gotten above us (like Moroni/Mormon saw) are trying to divert our attention away and blame Islamic intolerance and jihad for the problems in the world right now (at least, that is one tactic). There is strong- very, very strong- evidence that there's a lot more to what really happened on 9/11 than "some Islamist fundamentalists attacked us". That has been the basis for the so-called "War on Terror" and the numerous anti-Constitutional acts that Pres. Bush passed under the banner of necessity.

The real problem is the Beast and the Whore of Revelation (representing the super-powerful nations of the Earth and the secret combination that control said nations). Soon- very soon, I fear- we will see the Beast turn against the Whore (Rev. 17:16). Where does the Whore reside; that Secret Combination that guides the nations and is the head? I fear it is America- through utilization of the Federal Reserve and the dollar as the world's currency, and through military dominance, America has made all the nations of the Earth rich and fat, while propping up ruthless dictators and regimes in the 'Third World'. However, that time is over: the dollar is set to collapse, and the nations of the Beast are turning against America. Like the Lord used the Assyrians against Israel, so too will he use the Beast to help break the power of the Whore.

The continuing support of Israel by the US and others in the west is also part of the plan, and woe unto us if that support should ever waver, for then we will be ripening in iniquity.

America's support for Israel is, I fear, already wavering- I agree wholeheartedly that we should support it. However, the current nation of Israel (I speak of the government, not the people) also has its share of serious corruption. Currently, the Jews are still relying on the arm of the flesh (intrigue) instead of turning to their prophesied Messiah. Ultimately, after the whole world has turned on them, they will turn to Christ after the second fulfillment of the abomination of desolation.

[Matthew0059]

Its not that I mind dying so much its just that when people go looking forward to it as if its going to be a great challenge it seems to me that they dont seem to remember how many are going to suffer and die. Or care?

The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and neither do I nor anyone else I know who is anxiously watching for the coming trials (they are admittedly very few). It is the positive aspects of the Cleansing that I am excited about. God will work another very great wonder that will dwarf in its majesty the deliverance of Israel from Egypt! That will be very exciting to see unfold.

[pam]

It is nowhere written that Joseph Smith's church, which he established (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) would continue to grow uninterrupted until it sent missionaries to the whole earth.

I want to make a correction here. This is not Joseph Smith's Church. This is the Lord's church. Joseph Smith restored the church in the latter days but it belongs to the Lord.

[mrmarklin]

I shudder to think that people look forward to the trials of the last days. I cant even walk a block and neither can my husband. We are doomed to die very fast. Its not that I mind dying so much its just that when people go looking forward to it as if its going to be a great challenge it seems to me that they dont seem to remember how many are going to suffer and die. Or care?

How many people will die simply because of lack of medicines they need to survive? No. I am not looking forward to that. Its hard already for many of us.

You are already living in the "hard times" prophesied of old. Most of the people in the world experience just what you are afraid of.

Everyone on this forum who has not spent any time in a 3d world country (not in just the tourist areas) should do so immediately, if not sooner! Quite an education.

[mrmarklin]

It is nowhere written that Joseph Smith's church, which he established (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) would continue to grow uninterrupted until it sent missionaries to the whole earth. That is how many members interpret it- but that is not what the scriptures teach us.

I totally disagree with your interpretation of this scripture. One of the signs of the last days is that the gospel will be preached to all the world. See D&C 90:11, Matt. 24:14 and (JS) Matt 1:31.

[mrmarklin]

The "kingdom of Daniel" (google the term and see how Joseph Smith and the early Brethren used it) refers to the Kingdom of Heaven, or of Zion- not the Church. The Saints tried to bring forth the Kingdom of Heaven in the early days of the Church and failed because of wickedness among the Saints. Since that time, the Kingdom still has yet to come forth, because the nation of Zion is not yet founded.

Kingdom of Daniel = Kingdom of Heaven = Zion (the Mormons failed to bring it forth, and it is currently impossible to do so, as the land that is appointed for Zion to be brought forth is currently overrun with other people)

Kingdom of God = Churches of the Dispensations (of which the most recent is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

The stone that was carved from the Mountain without hands IS the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

It will carry all before it. I don't know where you are getting any interpretation other than this. See Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 1 P 355.

Also one of the signs of the last days is the fact that the gospel will be preached to all the world. See D&C 90:11, Matt 24:14 and (JS) Matt. 1:31.

The Church will not continue to prosper much longer... The sons of Ephraim (in Isaiah's day he called them the "drunkards of Ephraim") have failed to bring forth the Kingdom of Zion, despite establishing the Kingdom of God. Brigham Young said that if Ephraim failed, it would be left to Manasseh to take the lead in establishing the Kingdom of Zion.

Notice also in Daniel where it speaks of a little horn making war against the saints and winning until the "Ancient of Days" (Adam) should come. The Church structure, as we know it, will not go forth and break down the kingdoms of the earth- instead the true Saints will be trodden underfoot until God against sends servants akin to Moses and Joseph Smith to save us.

What has happened over the past 200 years- more specifically, the last 100 years- has been a rapid erosion of freedom and morality both inside and outside of the United States. Babylon covers the earth, her dominions are large (as was seen by Nephi) despite the Saints of God also being on the Earth.

This of course is totally untrue. Over the last 200 years we have witnessed the abolishon of slavery in most of the world (particularly the US), the establishment of liberal democracy in many nations, the increasing fight for human rights around the world. Of course there is a long way to go, and some of the points you raise about wickedness are of course valid. But I submitt that in the long run the church and the hand of the Lord will over come it all, just as in the prophecy.

There are certainly hard times to come, but at the same time I believe that the world's living standard will continue to increase, trade and commonality will increase despite satan's efforts.

The greatest king that lived 200 years ago did not have the standard of living that the average westerner lives today: almost unlimited communication abilities, airconditioning, swift travel by air land and sea, and almost unlimited entertainment options as close as the nearest TV/computer.

This despite two of the most ferocious wars ever fought in human history last century.

I agree that fundamentalist Islam is intolerant. However, the secret combinations that have gotten above us (like Moroni/Mormon saw) are trying to divert our attention away and blame Islamic intolerance and jihad for the problems in the world right now (at least, that is one tactic). There is strong- very, very strong- evidence that there's a lot more to what really happened on 9/11 than "some Islamist fundamentalists attacked us". That has been the basis for the so-called "War on Terror" and the numerous anti-Constitutional acts that Pres. Bush passed under the banner of necessity.

The real problem is the Beast and the Whore of Revelation (representing the super-powerful nations of the Earth and the secret combination that control said nations). Soon- very soon, I fear- we will see the Beast turn against the Whore (Rev. 17:16). Where does the Whore reside; that Secret Combination that guides the nations and is the head? I fear it is America- through utilization of the Federal Reserve and the dollar as the world's currency, and through military dominance, America has made all the nations of the Earth rich and fat, while propping up ruthless dictators and regimes in the 'Third World'. However, that time is over: the dollar is set to collapse, and the nations of the Beast are turning against America. Like the Lord used the Assyrians against Israel, so too will he use the Beast to help break the power of the Whore.

There is not really any support for such fantastic conspiracy theories. Western civilization's conflict with Islamic nations I fear, is right in line with what will need to happen in the last days. I doubt I will live to see the end of it and difficult times lie ahead.

America's support for Israel is, I fear, already wavering- I agree wholeheartedly that we should support it. However, the current nation of Israel (I speak of the government, not the people) also has its share of serious corruption. Currently, the Jews are still relying on the arm of the flesh (intrigue) instead of turning to their prophesied Messiah. Ultimately, after the whole world has turned on them, they will turn to Christ after the second fulfillment of the abomination of desolation.

Hopefully, the west will continue to support Israel. I think it likely for the forseeable future, and in fact if one follows current historical trends we will continue to become more liberal.

[annewandering]

I wont even tell you what my life has entailed and it was not in a third world country. Anyway it is not only the wicked who will suffer. We will ALL suffer. I guess masochism just isn't me.

[ConvinceTheWorld]

The "kingdom of Daniel" (google the term and see how Joseph Smith and the early Brethren used it) refers to the Kingdom of Heaven, or of Zion- not the Church. The Saints tried to bring forth the Kingdom of Heaven in the early days of the Church and failed because of wickedness among the Saints. Since that time, the Kingdom still has yet to come forth, because the nation of Zion is not yet founded.

Kingdom of Daniel = Kingdom of Heaven = Zion (the Mormons failed to bring it forth, and it is currently impossible to do so, as the land that is appointed for Zion to be brought forth is currently overrun with other people)

Kingdom of God = Churches of the Dispensations (of which the most recent is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

The Church will not continue to prosper much longer... The sons of Ephraim (in Isaiah's day he called them the "drunkards of Ephraim") have failed to bring forth the Kingdom of Zion, despite establishing the Kingdom of God. Brigham Young said that if Ephraim failed, it would be left to Manasseh to take the lead in establishing the Kingdom of Zion.

Notice also in Daniel where it speaks of a little horn making war against the saints and winning until the "Ancient of Days" (Adam) should come. The Church structure, as we know it, will not go forth and break down the kingdoms of the earth- instead the true Saints will be trodden underfoot until God against sends servants akin to Moses and Joseph Smith to save us.

What has happened over the past 200 years- more specifically, the last 100 years- has been a rapid erosion of freedom and morality both inside and outside of the United States. Babylon covers the earth, her dominions are large (as was seen by Nephi) despite the Saints of God also being on the Earth.

I agree that fundamentalist Islam is intolerant. However, the secret combinations that have gotten above us (like Moroni/Mormon saw) are trying to divert our attention away and blame Islamic intolerance and jihad for the problems in the world right now (at least, that is one tactic). There is strong- very, very strong- evidence that there's a lot more to what really happened on 9/11 than "some Islamist fundamentalists attacked us". That has been the basis for the so-called "War on Terror" and the numerous anti-Constitutional acts that Pres. Bush passed under the banner of necessity.

The real problem is the Beast and the Whore of Revelation (representing the super-powerful nations of the Earth and the secret combination that control said nations). Soon- very soon, I fear- we will see the Beast turn against the Whore (Rev. 17:16). Where does the Whore reside; that Secret Combination that guides the nations and is the head? I fear it is America- through utilization of the Federal Reserve and the dollar as the world's currency, and through military dominance, America has made all the nations of the Earth rich and fat, while propping up ruthless dictators and regimes in the 'Third World'. However, that time is over: the dollar is set to collapse, and the nations of the Beast are turning against America. Like the Lord used the Assyrians against Israel, so too will he use the Beast to help break the power of the Whore.

America's support for Israel is, I fear, already wavering- I agree wholeheartedly that we should support it. However, the current nation of Israel (I speak of the government, not the people) also has its share of serious corruption. Currently, the Jews are still relying on the arm of the flesh (intrigue) instead of turning to their prophesied Messiah. Ultimately, after the whole world has turned on them, they will turn to Christ after the second fulfillment of the abomination of desolation.

.....Matthew, Surely you hit the nail right on the head

Edited October 15, 2011 by ConvinceTheWorld

[annewandering]

Amazing speculation. Truth is about any theory can be backed up by scripture if you try. You fear that the great whore is America because of the federal reserve and our military. I think I would want some recent prophecy on that. It sounds more like political thought to me than doctrine.

Where do you get the idea that we, as a church, have failed to bring about the Kingdom of Zion? Where do you get the idea that some other group is going to come forth to take over because we failed?

I have never read or been taught that any of those things are true.