How can I help this lad?

[TootsieBlue]

My boys befriended a bully that lives in our street.

We've had years of problems with him, he is 14 now and our eldest is 12.

He managed to make friends and this lad started coming to church with us. After a while he was baptised.

His Mum and her partner support anything that this lad does so they were quite happy to go along with it all also the Mum said that she had seen so much improvement with him since he had been hanging round our children and going to church. she says his behaviour has done a complete 360.

He does really like a girl who lives in our street who also goes to church and I'm sure this really helped him to make the decision to join.

Since joining however it was holiday time and his Mum and Partner took him away for camping trip with their family. Their family are heavy drinkers and I'm wondering if this camping trip is where the problem that we now face started.

Since after the holidays this lad doesn't come out to church much but we've persisted in fellowshipping him and my son has encouraged him to go to Young Mens everyweek.

We have been worried for this lad as he stays out till midnight sometimes with his friends (he is only 14) His Mum wants to be his best friend so she allows it.

Last week, he sneaked some alcohol out of his house and gave it to his friends. His Mum came round and spoke to my husband and he gave her some advice. About curfews and which friends he should spend time with and about supporting him to go to church as basically they just let him to do what he wants. Not that they dont love him, infact its that she loves him too much.

Tonight there was a birthday party at another lads house in the street. His Mum is an alcoholic. This lad was seen in their garden drinking by our boys.

I called his Mum and in a nice way said that the children think that her son may be drinking at the neighbours party.

The mother said, Yes he is. She had spoken to his school after last weekends drinking problem and the school apparently said, 'well he is a teenager and teenagers will do that sort of thing, its normal and not to worry' ????

So when he told her he was going to a party tonight she actually bought the alcohol for him

How can we help this lad? I'm just completely stumped. He's 14, he's hanging with the wrong crowd. He has complete control over his own life, he chooses his bedtime and now he chooses if he wants alcohol.

I just find the situation ridiculous

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tootsie

[RMGuy]

Short answer is, I don't know if you can. You cannot undo in a few hours what he is learning at home every other hour of the day.

Also, I don't know if it is really your place (I know I will take some flak for that), but at the end of the day he isn't your kid. There are a lot of things that we as members to that others might think are odd or wrong....think about how you would react to someone coming in and attempting to change the decisions that you made as parents.

With that being said, you have one potential out. Supplying alchol to a minor is a crime. If you are willing to up the ante to that level and turn the parents into child protective services and the law, then you MIGHT be able to do something. This has the potential to backfire as well. I am sure that the parents are NOT going to be supportive of their son hanging around a family that just got them into trouble. He likely will NOT be attending church any longer either, and on top of it, he might even resent/hate you for getting him and his parents into trouble.

You are correct it is a ridiculous situation, but it is one of their own making.

-RM

[Guest gopecon]

It sounds like you are doing what you can do. When the parents allowing their kids to run crazy, there are only so many things someone outside of the family can do. This seems to illustrate why we should be careful about baptizing underage kids without parental support (not just permission). I'm not saying we should never do it, but the chances for long term success are better if there is a good support system in place. Good luck!

[NeuroTypical]

How can we help this lad?

Love him. When he hits rock bottom, visit him in the hospital or prison. Let him know that your family represents a way out of where he's headed - even if he makes it there.

[TootsieBlue]

thanks for all your advice.

My lad is out playing basketball with this lad now and I'm keen for them to remain friends but a bit weary too.

I could easily tell the police that the parents are supplying alcohol to their child but it would have the adverse effect as you say.

I suppose our hands are tied and all we can do is pray and keep our friendship and our standards for him to see when and if he ever chooses it.

[Soulsearcher]

thanks for all your advice.

My lad is out playing basketball with this lad now and I'm keen for them to remain friends but a bit weary too.

I could easily tell the police that the parents are supplying alcohol to their child but it would have the adverse effect as you say.

I suppose our hands are tied and all we can do is pray and keep our friendship and our standards for him to see when and if he ever chooses it.

I guess I'm lost a bit. The line "I suppose our hands are tied and all we can do is pray and keep our friendship and our standards for him to see when and if he ever chooses it" makes me wonder.You know a law is being broken, you know a child is being put in danger and yet it seems that you are pondering just letting it go and turning a blind eye. You want to set a moral example for the child as well as be there to help him progress down the right path and yet it seems you hesitate. I agree all of the adverse effects could come to pass, and yet looking at the church and doctrine i seem to see a theme of "doing the right thing no matter what". So it seems right now the choice is do the right thing and possibly get him out of a potentially dangerous situation, or do almost nothing and wait til it might be too late to do anything because you are worried the outcome might not be exactly what you want. Is it more important to make sure the kid is out of harm or that he like your family and might keep going to church? I was in a similar situation as you and made the choice it seems you are settling on, let me tell you it cost a number of children a great deal of suffering and one of them will never recover. Either do the RIGHT thing or do nothing and accept you just didn't have the backbone to do it, and i'll tell you the latter is a lot harder to live with.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Soulsearcher

[TootsieBlue]

I see what you are saying and understand what you are suggesting. But I see no good coming of me talking to the authorities about it. If I did have the guts to do something about it, it would probably be best for me to speak directly to the Mum about the seriousness of the situation.

We are in the UK and they will not get into alot of trouble for this. However if I were to get Child Protection or the Police involved it would definitely sever a friendship that is already strained.

[Soulsearcher]

I see what you are saying and understand what you are suggesting. But I see no good coming of me talking to the authorities about it. If I did have the guts to do something about it, it would probably be best for me to speak directly to the Mum about the seriousness of the situation.

We are in the UK and they will not get into alot of trouble for this. However if I were to get Child Protection or the Police involved it would definitely sever a friendship that is already strained.

So is this a how can i help question or a "how can i do the least possible and not feel guilty" question? Doing the right thing isn't always easy and doesn't always get the results we hope for, but if it comes down to actually trying to help him then you have to ask are you doing all you can or just sitting and not liking whats going on but really not being willing to do anything other than moaning about the situation?

[TootsieBlue]

hmmmm... you're not being very nice to me. And I mean that in the most jovial way of course.

I, and my family have wrecked our heads over this for a long time and worked with this lad for years as he's lived in our street since he was 7. We've worked hard to keep communication open with his Mum also.

I genuinely feel for him and dont know the best course of action. I say action, because i'm aware that inaction doesn't work.

Will you get off your soap box now?

[RMGuy]

So is this a how can i help question or a "how can i do the least possible and not feel guilty" question?

WOW! Bear down chickenhawk. If the OP didn't want to help, they wouldn't have asked the question to begin with, we have to understand that what we would do in a particular situation isn't what everyone else would do, and that this individual is MUCH closer to the situation, and has the benefit of knowing not only the people involved, but the local law and the past history of the people involved. It's cool that you have a different opinion, and it's good to share that advice as well, but when it comes to statements like the one above, I sometimes wonder that we don't chase more people away than we help.

-RM

[annewandering]

Ok the mom already talked to the school about the kids drinking and they told her all kids do it. The mom is already doing what the school suggested. Or essentially anyway.

Sounds to me that there is going to be no official help if not even the school cares. That actually might be something she can work on and have some success. Obviously kids arent getting good support even at school. The school needs to be improved.

I would guess the drinking problem is much more widespread than just with the neighbor boy so I am suggesting that a bit of civic duty might be useful for everyone.

[Soulsearcher]

WOW! Bear down chickenhawk. If the OP didn't want to help, they wouldn't have asked the question to begin with, we have to understand that what we would do in a particular situation isn't what everyone else would do, and that this individual is MUCH closer to the situation, and has the benefit of knowing not only the people involved, but the local law and the past history of the people involved. It's cool that you have a different opinion, and it's good to share that advice as well, but when it comes to statements like the one above, I sometimes wonder that we don't chase more people away than we help.

-RM

I'm not trying to be mean, but in reality we have a lot of people coming here under the guise of seeking help when what they really want is a pat on the back for half hearted efforts or support for not really doing much of anything. Yes she knows more about the kid, but she asked "how do i help this kid" and then says she'll pretty much sit around on the side lines. God helps those who help themselves, you can pray and set a good example and then pout when the result isn't quite what you want or you can take action and take a risk. She even admitted she could talk to the kids mom and yet hasn't yet when she knows that would have been a wonderful place to start before seeking other peoples advice because she seems lost on what to do next. I have no problem with people coming here seeking advice when they really have no clue and have exhausted the obvious, but when someone asks "what next?" and hasn't done the obvious someone sooner or later is going to point out " well gee did you do the obvious or are you just asking for fun? You have a problem with a kid or the way a kid is being raised and it bothers you enough to seek advice from stranger you'd think maybe you would have already tried the parents? Sorry if it's blunt but when someone asks a question they should expect an answer rather than people dancing around it shouldn't they? Also the comment posted about civil involvement was another great suggestion. If something means that much to you a lil work outside your comfort zone shouldn't be too much to expect, but hey, i guess we could just sit back and pray and set a good example and say we've done all we can do, i mean i guess that's the example the church has taught right? I mean no Prophet or GA has ever encouraged taking direct action of any kind to solve issues in our communities or homes right?

[TootsieBlue]

i really dont like your 'high and mighty' attitutude

If you looked at all the post prior to your post, everyone was pointing me in the direction of sit quiet and pray and be there for him.

So in conclusion to 'THIS' thread, I said, 'ok, i'll stick by the lad, do what I can and pray as a family and be here for him when he needs us.'

I've already said we encourage him to spend time with us, at youth and come to church.

I've also stated that the lines of communication with his Mum is open. What does that mean to you? that i'm 'not' speaking to her????

She came over yesterday after church to talk to us but I'm not even going to get there for you to pick holes in what was said or not said :/

Excuse me if I dont manage to put down every tiny bit of info on here for your expert perusal.

Butt out and dont worry, I wont ask for you expert opinion on my life or the life of others again

[pam]

i really dont like your 'high and mighty' attitutude

If you looked at all the post prior to your post, everyone was pointing me in the direction of sit quiet and pray and be there for him.

So in conclusion to 'THIS' thread, I said, 'ok, i'll stick by the lad, do what I can and pray as a family and be here for him when he needs us.'

I've already said we encourage him to spend time with us, at youth and come to church.

I've also stated that the lines of communication with his Mum is open. What does that mean to you? that i'm 'not' speaking to her????

She came over yesterday after church to talk to us but I'm not even going to get there for you to pick holes in what was said or not said :/

Excuse me if I dont manage to put down every tiny bit of info on here for your expert perusal.

Butt out and dont worry, I wont ask for you expert opinion on my life or the life of others again

Excuse me but when someone comes here and asks an opinion they should expect to get a variety of opinions. Not all of the answers may be to their liking. But please don't tell someone to butt out and not give their opinion on a situation. If you don't like an opinion, read it and move on.

[TootsieBlue]

ok Pam,

you're right. I'm sorry.

I shouldn't get so riled up.

I find this particular guy offensive to me as he has persistently taken shots at me on top of the advice he's given.

I'm happy to receive advice and other peoples opinions as that is the whole point of this forum and particularly the advice board.

I have asked this gentleman to be a bit nicer but he still continues to make assumptions about me and his posts are not nice and only mildly helpful. On of your moderators has even had a word with him and yet he continues to be mean about the advice he's given.

Sorry for posting strongly.

I'll just keep out of it xx

[pam]

TootsieBlue I just sent you a pm.

[TootsieBlue]

Thanks for your PM's guys x

[Windseeker]

I'm not trying to be mean

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here..but

i guess we could just sit back and pray and set a good example and say we've done all we can do, i mean i guess that's the example the church has taught right? I mean no Prophet or GA has ever encouraged taking direct action of any kind to solve issues in our communities or homes right?

Yeah, it's funny how the Prophets and GA's have always encouraged us to go out and ignore the rights of other parents and take over parenting for every wayward child we see. I mean we baptize children all the time without parental consent. Plus we don't believe in free agency and should just lock wayward kids in our basement until they shape up. Prophets and GA's never have wayward children because they know just what to do and don't waste time sitting around praying and setting good examples they take action.

[Soulsearcher]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here..but

Yeah, it's funny how the Prophets and GA's have always encouraged us to go out and ignore the rights of other parents and take over parenting for every wayward child we see. I mean we baptize children all the time without parental consent. Plus we don't believe in free agency and should just lock wayward kids in our basement until they shape up. Prophets and GA's never have wayward children because they know just what to do and don't waste time sitting around praying and setting good examples they take action.

A very good point. Except there's a line between over parenting someone elses kids and holding them accountable for not doing the job in the first place. We report parents for neglect and abuse all the time. What you are suggesting is that this should never be done? A parent supplying drugs or alcohol to a child is not just a minor faux pas like not teaching them proper manners. Sometimes people need to get involved for the sake of a child's benefit. I've seen members here use the quote " it takes a village to raise a child." The OP asked very clearly HOW CAN I HELP. She might not like my suggestions but they are answers to her very clear question. She did not ask how can i set an example, she did not ask us to pray or ask us for advice on how to wait til this child might be too far gone. she asked how she can help. If the kids mother was smacking him around would as many people be as critical of my responses? Please don't tell me I'm the only one who's seen what underage drinking can lead to more so when it's encouraged? If the OP is as worried as she says, and i admire the care and love she has for this child, then why is it wrong to advise her to take an action? I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Yes I've been blunt and very direct, yet it's not for lack of compassion for the OP or the child, it's to try and make the impression that if it's as worrisome as she says then to me something should be done with a certain urgency. Yes this hits close to home for me, i was in her position and made the same choice she's leaning towards with what she's posted. It destroyed one child and harmed 3 others. As much as people may laugh at me or dismiss me because of my tone it's because i hate to see someone else make a possible error and suffer the guilt afterwards always asking "why didn't i do more?"

[TootsieBlue]

its not your advice or your opinion that anyone has a problem with soulsearcher. Its your delivery method

[Soulsearcher]

its not your advice or your opinion that anyone has a problem with soulsearcher. Its your delivery method

lol as said it's a touchy topic with me. Soon as i see anyone come close to standing on the side lines i tend to lose patience with soft and gentle and get blunt. I do realize it might mean I'm dismissed as a harsh creep, but i really don't care as long as it might get deep enough to make someone really think. LOL i will admit certain things happening right now might make my fuse a wee bit shorter though.