What to do..

[down_under]

This is kind of childish.... but I am going too throw it out there.

There is a brother in my ward who is on the bishopric who has taken it upon himself to make my time at church to say the least "unpleasant"..

The story goes like this... He was the bishop some time ago, at that time I needed to speak with him over a transgression.. He took it to stake they did not feel it was serious and given i had been open about it, did not impose any penalty on me ...

Several years pass, I move back in to the ward, He is now on the high council so he is rarely in the ward. I get called as EQ Pres. About 12 months later the is a change of bishopric and he returns as a councilor to the bishop.

Here starts the problems... He calls around to my house and while he is there he states that they have a better position for me? and indicates that EQ P is not really for me.. At this time I had taken the EQ from 7 attending to about 12. (small ward). A week or so latter he mentions again that the EQ should be somebody's else s calling. this happens a few more times.. till I finally write to the stake pres and request a release and stop working the calling.

Then Christmas last year, my wife buys me a pair of $400 sunglasses. While talking to a brother I put them down and leave them in the class room. I return latter that evening to find them and they are gone.. The following Sunday I ask around and one brother says to me that "so and so" had asked him whos they were and he told him that they were mine, This was confirmed by another sister who asked if i got my sunglasses back from,,,,

So I go and see him, at frist he said he did not have they, then he said he put them in the bishop office,, then he said they might be at home, then he tells me that thing get lost all the time.. After 6 week he gives them back to me with some excuse that he had only just found them...

Any way a few other things happen between us mostly him making comments about me or my son.. So at this years Christmas party, I was standing outside with a few people talking, he comes out and says to the crowd that the food is ready. So I turn and start to move inside the building as I pass him he comments "don't rush the fat ones eats last or there will not be enough" I looked at him and he says "you heard". I just walked off, and sat in the foyer.. latter the bishops wife sees me. The following Sunday he rings me and asks. If we have a problem and what did I say to the bishops wife? I just told him to give it a rest and don't talk to me.

He then walks up to me in the car park, gets right in my face and says. have we got a problem? I told him if we have no interaction there wont be a problem.

For the next couple of weeks he singles me out to says something ...

It got to the point were my 16 year old daughter said to me "Dose he want a flogging" she could see how worked up I had became? I spoke bishop about the situation.

I stopped attending for about 3 weeks, I went back last week and again he walks past a make some smart comment about me being back..

So the question is. What would you do if you was me?

[Colirio]

I spoke bishop about the situation.

And...?

Likewise, what does your spouse say?

Personally, while I can't say for sure considering how many unknown factors exist, as this brother seems to be quite confrontational, I would encourage you to continue to seek redress from the Bishop. If he does not seem to care or take it seriously, take it to the stake.

In the meantime, I would also admonish you to remember the words of the Savior and apply them like you never have before:

3 Nephi 12:43 And behold it is written also, that thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy;

44 But behold I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good.

[Gwen]

What did the bishop or stake pres say about the situation? If you haven't actually informed either about the situation then that's where I would start.

I would also be inclined to not sustain him at the next ward conference if something hadn't been resolved. When they ask you to sustain local leadership I would raise my hand and oppose the sustaining of him (even if he is included in a group of ppl). That will promise you an audience with the stake pres where you can explain why you can not sustain this person.

In the meantime I would keep going to church and do my best to ignore him. Maybe come up with a few clever comments for when he insists on getting in your business. Maybe not the most christ like but it does help to tolerate ppl like that. Always keep in mind that he is not your religion or your church, he happens to be there. Don't let him define you or your testimony, your kids will learn more from that than anything.

[down_under]

Both replies have merit,

The bishop was not much use, he said that he would speak to him. but the message did not get though... I feel... you are right we should love one another. My wife believes that he is just dumb... and i should treat him as such.. so I don't know, If I stay away from church and avoid him at least I wont smack him in the mouth.. which is probably a good thing..

[Gwen]

I don't know, some ppl need a good smack upside the head.

There was a ym that I worked with and his teacher publicly called him a failure. She told him he didn't have to do the homework because he was just going to fail anyway. So he was refusing to do the work. If he refuses to do the work then she wins and is proven right to the entire class. If he does the work and shines then he can flaunt that to the class and his teacher is shown to be the dope that she was. The choice was his. And yes I did explain it to him that way (with the caution that he can't call his teacher a dope) and yes I know most educators would be very upset about it. lol But guess what, he did the work and he did great just like I knew he could. It didn't change the teacher but it did change him. He now knew she was wrong, she didn't have the power to define him anymore.

My point and I know it sounds simple and overused but this isn't any different, if you stop going to church he wins. And worse the church loses. With no one there to counter it he becomes the representation of the church. What idea do visitors walk away with? If the decent ppl don't stay then how will anyone know there are decent ppl in the church? Don't let the idiots define you.... or me for that matter. You have a right to be there and you have a right to not be a victim, which sometimes means coming back with snide comments of your own when necessary. A physical altercation probably isn't a good idea.

Summery, I think I agree with your wife. lol

[Guest]

Memorize this:

"How dare you insinuate that I can tolerate such a diabolical insolence from a scrap of humanity such as you?"

It's better than flogging him...

What a doofus! And yeah, definitely raise your hand on the next ward council to oppose his calling.

And no, don't stop going to church. The church is between you and God. Not between you and the bishop's councilor. You don't want to short-change God because of some doofus.

[applepansy]

These things do not happen in a bubble. The people around you at church are aware of what is happening. The more this behavior goes on the more apparent it will become. If you are patient, and try to love your enemy the Lord will take care of this for you. What will likely happen is his insistence on being un-Christlike will cause the Holy Ghost to leave him. After that its a downhill road unless he repents.

What do you think he is trying to accomplish with his behavior towards you? Does he want you to stop coming to church? Don't let him win. As cheerfully as possible hang on to you testimony and attend your meetings. Get the Bishop involved and the Stake President if necessary. I agree with not sustaining him. If you raise your hand in a public meeting to not sustain him, everyone will know why. Do it privately with the Bishop. In a nutshell, do unto him as you would have others do unto you.

Its really hard when there is one person in a ward who goes out of their way to make someone uncomfortable. When confronted walk away. Try to always have other people with you when he approaches you. At home you have the right to tell him he's not welcome until you see a change in his behavior towards you. Does he treat your wife this way too? Be very clear with him about this. (Bro. Jones, you are not welcome in my home. Do not call. Do not come over. Do not harass me or my family here at our home. This is your only warning. The next time you call or come over I'll call the police. If you persist I will get a restraining order.)

That might sound confrontational but being Christlike doesn't mean allowing the peace of your home to be disrupted by someone like you describe.

Whatever you do don't let don't of your faith and testimony.

[JudoMinja]

If there's one thing I've learned from parenting manuals, teaching manuals, the scriptures, etc. it is that people generally want to be good. They behave the best way they know how, and it really sucks when their best just isn't that great. Part of what teaches people to behave the way they do is the conditioned "rewards" they receive for their behavior. If someone is behaving badly, they are doing so because it works- it produces results that shows them their behavior gets them what they want.

Why does a two-year-old pout and throw tantrums? Because it works... until you stop letting it work. Your reaction to the behavior gives the one misbehaving the power.

Why do some teenagers lie through their teeth and argue with authority figures? Because it works... until you stop letting it work. You stop giving them the results they are seeking, and the behavior will stop.

It is the same with adults. Why does this man behave badly and treat you badly? Because it works. Gwens advice is spot on. As long as you are giving him the power, giving him the results he is seeking, he "wins". He gets what he's looking for and the bad behavior continues, only this time with someone else. You dropped out of the EQ calling, you walked out of the Christmas party, you stopped coming to church for three weeks- he's getting results. He's getting a rise out of you. It's working. You have the power to make it stop working.

I recently attended a teaching conference where one of the guest speakers gave some wonderful advice:

Treat everyone as if they are good.

Why? Because it encourages those who are being good to continue doing so- gives them the boost, motivation, and recognition they need to keep up the hard work. And it causes those who are not being good to feel uncomfortable, discourages the bad behavior, and makes life better not for them but for the good people around them. When you think about it, it really is a very selfish reason- but you can essentially "kill them with kindness".

Certainly take this to the bishop and the stake president to see if they can help resolve the behavior- because it is very wrong for someone in a leadership position to be acting this way. But the rest is entirely up to you and how you react to him. If you let him push your buttons and get a rise out of you, the mistreatment will continue, because it is working. The solution is simple, but it isn't easy. Take charge of your emotions, don't react, don't let him get a rise out of you, and treat him as if he were good- shower him with kindness. Greet him with happy hellos. Ask him how his day went. Smile, shake his hand.

The bad behavior may not entirely stop, but because he's been treating you badly, this will cause him to feel uncomfortable and you will have regained control of the situation.

[applepansy]

If there's one thing I've learned from parenting manuals, teaching manuals, the scriptures, etc. it is that people generally want to be good. They behave the best way they know how, and it really sucks when their best just isn't that great. Part of what teaches people to behave the way they do is the conditioned "rewards" they receive for their behavior. If someone is behaving badly, they are doing so because it works- it produces results that shows them their behavior gets them what they want.

Why does a two-year-old pout and throw tantrums? Because it works... until you stop letting it work. Your reaction to the behavior gives the one misbehaving the power.

Why do some teenagers lie through their teeth and argue with authority figures? Because it works... until you stop letting it work. You stop giving them the results they are seeking, and the behavior will stop.

It is the same with adults. Why does this man behave badly and treat you badly? Because it works. Gwens advice is spot on. As long as you are giving him the power, giving him the results he is seeking, he "wins". He gets what he's looking for and the bad behavior continues, only this time with someone else. You dropped out of the EQ calling, you walked out of the Christmas party, you stopped coming to church for three weeks- he's getting results. He's getting a rise out of you. It's working. You have the power to make it stop working.

I recently attended a teaching conference where one of the guest speakers gave some wonderful advice:

Treat everyone as if they are good.

Why? Because it encourages those who are being good to continue doing so- gives them the boost, motivation, and recognition they need to keep up the hard work. And it causes those who are not being good to feel uncomfortable, discourages the bad behavior, and makes life better not for them but for the good people around them. When you think about it, it really is a very selfish reason- but you can essentially "kill them with kindness".

Certainly take this to the bishop and the stake president to see if they can help resolve the behavior- because it is very wrong for someone in a leadership position to be acting this way. But the rest is entirely up to you and how you react to him. If you let him push your buttons and get a rise out of you, the mistreatment will continue, because it is working. The solution is simple, but it isn't easy. Take charge of your emotions, don't react, don't let him get a rise out of you, and treat him as if he were good- shower him with kindness. Greet him with happy hellos. Ask him how his day went. Smile, shake his hand.

The bad behavior may not entirely stop, but because he's been treating you badly, this will cause him to feel uncomfortable and you will have regained control of the situation.

I agree with everything you've said. But I want to point out that it doesn't work with everyone.

I've been having a neighbor issue for several years now. This is a person in my ward. When the problem first started I did exactly what you've suggested. I waved when I past this neighbor on the road, and I said hi when I saw this person at church, the store, wherever. I tried to be positive and welcoming. None of this happened in a bubble. When other neighbors and ward members saw what was happening they talked to me. Treating this person with kindess and a welcoming attitude only made things worse. I had to step back and let the Lord soften a heart. Its been several years now but this neighbor accidently said hi to me in church last Sunday. I think it surprised us both.

This experience taught me an important point. We can't make someone forgive if they choose not to. It doesn't matter who is at fault. Sometimes their feelings need to be resolved before the "kindness" comes across the right way. All we can do is make sure our behavior is in line with Christ's teachings.

[Guest]

It's a sad fact that some bullies never grow up. I'm sorry he's singled you out. My teenage nephews are dealing with a bishopric member who bullies them, too. He's not even man enough to pick on someone his own age. Thankfully they have the support of good parents and testimonies strong enough to know that he's a jerk but he's not the Church.

In your case, since you've talked to the bishop once I'd give things a couple of weeks to change, and if not I'd talk to the bishop one more time. Then, if you don't see any change, take it to the stake president. He needs to be accountable for how he treats those under his stewardship.

And don't let him drive you away. Like the others said, you're just letting him win, and you're fueling the fire.

[Martain]

I really enjoyed and agreed with the responses and advice given here while feeling sorry for your current situation.

When it first became apparent to me that there is an issue, I would clearly and succinctly write down the whole of the matter to this point and then seek a meeting where I could sit down with the other individual, explain my case and seek a resolution.

Should that fail I would then hand it my bishop. In addition to asking if he would talk to the other individual, I would ask him for his advice and ask how he expects me to react in return and then make sure to do it.

Should that not solve the issue I would return to my Bishop. I'd explain the issue still persists and ask him to escalate it to the Stake President via forwarding the letter. My question to the Stake President would then be whether or not he planned or felt to step into the matter or whether this issue was to remain with the Bishop.

Having done all that, should nothing else be of aid, I would apply D&C 98 all while applying 3 Nephi 12:43-45 and asking for personal revelation as to anything else I could do to remedy the situation.

Perhaps not much more advice than what everyone else has said... but perhaps you'll find some applicable answers in D&C 98-

[annewandering]

One of my kids had a problem with a bully at school. She is a very polite person and non violent. She is also not all that shy. Well she tried everything she and we could think of, including talking to the principle, being nice to her, ignoring her. Nothing worked.

Well one day she actually jumped on my daughters back, pounding on her, and yelling at her. Right in the middle of the school grounds. My daughter finally lost it and just whacked her on the nose. Blood shot all over the place, including on her new shirt. arg. Then my daughter just walked off.

The girl never bothered her again.

The point is that some people just dont get it. If they find someone they view as weaker they will just badger them forever until the victim shows that they are not weak at all. I dont recommend, normally anyway, slugging someone, but you will have to show that you will not be their victim and be very very sure you dont come across as a victim.

What always worked for me is to just turn my head to look at a bully, with no expression whatsoever. Like looking at a blank wall. Then turn around and walk off. No one ever bothered me more than once. Well except once when a bunch of kids were harrassing a friend of mine repeatedly. I just filled my purse with rocks and waited. Next time around I just whacked her with the purse. Once. She screamed retribution and I told her no one would punish me because they knew she was a bully. Then I walked off. I was right. Ok I still am not recommending violence lol just kidding a bit.

[Martain]

I can understand what you mean anne =).

Those I posted what I did, sometimes you forget what you planned to do and do something completely different. I hope that doesn't happen to me in the future.

Once I was being bullied by a classmate in the locker room. One day I basically told him not to get close to me and when he started pushing, I grabbed my shoes by the shoelaces and started whizzing them around and around like a pair of maces. A whack or two to show I was serious about him not entering my personal space and I don't remember ever having an issue with him after that.

Then there was a mean (though cute, why does my memory tell me she was cute?) tomboy girl who was always up in the mix during pe and flag football. There really was no contest in regards to who had more physical prowess between her and me nor between her and quite a few other guys in our class. For some reason she kept picking and taunting me (don't remember how or what) and one day I pushed her back.

She shoved me to the ground and holding me down and it looked like she was about to punch me. I grabbed her arm, and in a very surprising seemingly miraculous (I don't know how I did it and I'm not sure who was more surprised her me or my classmates) I somehow in a single flip reversed our positions and was in the threatening position.

I don't remember if I punched her in retaliation or not but I might have. If I d id I expect it was pitiful. Yet all the same I hope I didn't because it makes a better story without it and society frowns on little boys punching little girls regardless of the events that lead up to it. Either way she didn't bother me after that =).

Plausible possible scenario:

"But... she was bigger than me!"

"I don't care if she was bigger than you... you don't hit girls!"

"But... she was picking on me!"

Sullenly mumbled under breath, "She started it."

"No excuses!"

Woah... what strange memories can come flooding back to us. Haven't recalled these two memories in years and years.

[slamjet]

Last time someone did something like that to me, I looked him straight in the eyes, shook hand with him, smiled, and with a joyful and gleeful voice said "My, that is SO CHRISTIAN of you. So how are you today?" And no, I wasn't quiet about it. but I did have fun with the major awkward small talk and him attempting to extricate himself away from me.

But I have others who decide to play that game with me. Usually ignoring works. If not, I throw words around like example, Christian and also quote scriptures in a gleeful way. Mainly because a big weakness of mine is that I can really careless about what people think about me, and it shows.

[annewandering]

Slamjet, I think I have the same problem. :)

This whole thing is something I have debate with myself for a long long time. My next younger brother was always being picked on. His life was a living nightmare. My older brother and I were always stuck not knowing whether to intercede or not. No one bothered us so why did they bother him? The only thing I have ever been able to figure out is that for some reason they thought he was vulnerable and we werent.

I dont think any bully will stop unless he sees that you are not the victim he craves to dominate. I know for a fact that you can never show any weakness. If you do they will pounce.

The fact that the OP is having the problem in church is very devasting. This is one place he should feel protected and safe. He knows he should be on his best behavior, especially at church, yet this man is determined to push.

Then to come to OP's sanctuary and bully there is just too much.

OP, your bishop should take this seriously. As others have said, if he doesnt take it to the stake president. When you do be sure to tell him that when the bully was bishop you confided some things to him that apparently has made him feel its ok to bully you and demean you both privately and publicly. This is a misuse of his time as bishop and is serious stuff.

[Juan_P]

This is kind of childish.... but I am going too throw it out there.

.....

So the question is. What would you do if you was me?

I would print out what you wrote here in the OP and give it to the Bishop saying "this is an ongoing problem and I'm ready to go inactvie to avoid BroX"

By the way, he had no right nor authority to say or suggest that EQ wasn't for you. Note that as a high councilman he would've had to vote to approve your calling to EQP, and he probably didn't have the courage to speak out there or was overruled. What he did to you was, as a HP, just through his weight around and got what he wanted. Little about inspiration since it would never come to him.

Oh, and of all you wrote the confrontation in the car park was probably the worst since those situations can easily explode into violance.

[Vort]

I would print out what you wrote here in the OP and give it to the Bishop saying "this is an ongoing problem and I'm ready to go inactvie to avoid BroX"

This is the equivalent of pointing a gun at your head and saying, "Stop or I'll shoot!" (Cue Eddie Murphy jokes.) Threatening to go inactive is never a good idea.

[down_under]

Guys your support has been wonderful, I have been sitting on this problem for a while and over the last couple of months it just got too much.. I would not go inactive, however i was thinking of being a gypsy and traveling to diffident wards... to avoid any confrontation and for the peace and quite. But after speaking whit my family I am going to stay in the ward, if he has anything more to say, I will take up the bishops proposal to act as ref in his office and we will have it out once and for all. So I am off the church in an 1 hour. Thanks for the support

[Juan_P]

This is the equivalent of pointing a gun at your head and saying, "Stop or I'll shoot!" (Cue Eddie Murphy jokes.) Threatening to go inactive is never a good idea.

So what's your alternative, (joking or not) point the gun at the bullies head and kill him? or confront him in the car park and fight it out?

In real church life, there are many people who are "almost going inactive" over problems in the ward. It's not a threat but a reality of what many people feel. Your answer here doesn't help anyone.

[Juan_P]

Guys your support has been wonderful, I have been sitting on this problem for a while and over the last couple of months it just got too much.. I would not go inactive, however i was thinking of being a gypsy and traveling to diffident wards... to avoid any confrontation and for the peace and quite. But after speaking whit my family I am going to stay in the ward, if he has anything more to say, I will take up the bishops proposal to act as ref in his office and we will have it out once and for all. So I am off the church in an 1 hour. Thanks for the support

I'm glad you've worked it out.

But honestly, talk to the bishop first and ask him to act as a ref. don't catch him blindsided or without knowing the full story first. The counselor has the advantage of both knowing the bishop well and also of having his confidence (most likely) so you balance that out a bit by talking privately to him first and then having that conflict resolution conference.

[Vort]

So what's your alternative, (joking or not) point the gun at the bullies head and kill him? or confront him in the car park and fight it out?

In real church life, there are many people who are "almost going inactive" over problems in the ward. It's not a threat but a reality of what many people feel. Your answer here doesn't help anyone.

You think your solution of threatening inactivity helps?

[Juan_P]

You think your solution of threatening inactivity helps?

It isn't a threat, you've misunderstood.

It's a statement of what the person feels and is about to do.

Happens over and over in church when members, because of problems with other members, want to give up. That's when we should step in and try to help by mediating or by uplifting a person so they don't go inactive.

[Martain]

Talk it out between you two with the Bishop as a referee? That's an fabulous idea! I'm going to remember that because it simply makes so much sense to me.

Good luck!

[Spartan117]

a big weakness of mine is that I can really careless about what people think about me, and it shows.

I don't believe for a second that you really think that's a weakness

[Vort]

It isn't a threat, you've misunderstood.

It's a statement of what the person feels and is about to do.

Happens over and over in church when members, because of problems with other members, want to give up. That's when we should step in and try to help by mediating or by uplifting a person so they don't go inactive.

Hmmm. So you're saying that the guy should tell the bishop he's about to go inactive over the "brother's" actions, not as a threat, but as a statement of fact.

Something about that just doesn't seem right to me, but I acknowledge that it's not as I had first characterized it.