No fun?

[RipplecutBuddha]

For me, the decision comes down to what is more important of the options I face. I agree that making the choice beforehand and sticking to it works well, but as Mordorbound discussed, there are some decisions I just haven't made that I probably should have a long time ago.

When it comes to the WoW issues, I've decided long ago they would never be something I allowed in my life. For converts, however, it's not so cut-and-dry. Not to say that converts alwasy have smoking and drinking issues, but they're more likely to than those like me who were raised in the LDS church. As such, it's a big change for many of our members, and I think it's something worth looking at on a personal level.

The WoW is part of the missionary discussions, and part of the baptismal interview as well. While there can be no doubt of the reality of the expectations new members face, I can understand a bit of 'convert's remorse' as it were. When it comes to WoW issues because they can be an otherwise normal part of someone's life and/or social experience before they decide they want to be baptized. Sometimes the change can be a bit of a shock, even years down the road.

Having said all that, I've heard some people say that having a bottle of soda or two during sports games helps with the alcohol issue. It's not beer, sure, but it's close enough for some to help finalize the transition.

In the end, a decision has to be made about what committment is more important, a committment to Heavenly Father, or a committment to parts of our lives we decided to leave behind once we were baptized. It's not so easy a decision, and it definitely needs time to complete, but at least it's something Heavenly Father is more than willing to help you with whenever you ask.

[Traveler]

I think there is a difference between fun and joy. I think of fun as something temporary - whereas joy I believe is something of a life time and beyond. With that said:

I find joy in attending church

I find joy in service

I find joy in helping my fellow man

I find joy in prayer

I find joy in paying tithing

I find joy in keeping all the commandments

I find joy in marriage

I find joy in my children and grand children

I find joy in work

I find joy in being disciplined.

Sometimes I think fun is a distraction to what really matters. Is it really fun when you wake up the next morning regretting what you now have to face because of it? It may seem like fun at the time to go into debt for something you want - but is paying off the debt really that much fun too? It may be fun in the moment for a guy to look at pornography and get all excited but it is really that much fun realizing the pain it brings to your dear wife that feels cheated and abandoned? I believe that Alma in the Book of Mormon said something like - “Wickedness never was happiness - but it sure was a lot of fun while it lasted.”

I submit that living with G-d in the Celestial kingdom will not be all that fun to many - that is why I believe that many will choose a different glory that they find much more fulfilling and fun to them. I believe that the Celestial Kingdom will be inhabited only by those that really enjoy Celestial living - above all else. “Man is that he might have joy”

The Traveler

[FunkyTown]

I think there is a difference between fun and joy. I think of fun as something temporary - whereas joy I believe is something of a life time and beyond. With that said:

I sometimes find joy in attending church

I sometimes find joy in service

I sometimes find joy in helping my fellow man

I sometimes find joy in prayer

I sometimes find joy in paying tithing

I sometimes find joy in keeping all the commandments

I sometimes find joy in marriage

I sometimes find joy in my children and grand children

I sometimes find joy in work

I sometimes find joy in being disciplined.

Sometimes I think fun is a distraction to what really matters. Is it really fun when you wake up the next morning regretting what you now have to face because of it? It may seem like fun at the time to go into debt for something you want - but is paying off the debt really that much fun too? It may be fun in the moment for a guy to look at pornography and get all excited but it is really that much fun realizing the pain it brings to your dear wife that feels cheated and abandoned? I believe that Alma in the Book of Mormon said something like - “Wickedness never was happiness - but it sure was a lot of fun while it lasted.”

The Traveler

Fixed that for you. Unless you're the type of person to love those days when you have to go to church when the Stake President who never prepares is speaking who always goes over by 25 minutes, and you have a headache, and your grandchildren are screaming and cranky, and the person who always demands a ride everywhere demands that you drive her screaming kids home.

There are times when none of us want to do what we should.

[Traveler]

Fixed that for you. Unless you're the type of person to love those days when you have to go to church when the Stake President who never prepares is speaking who always goes over by 25 minutes, and you have a headache, and your grandchildren are screaming and cranky, and the person who always demands a ride everywhere demands that you drive her screaming kids home.

There are times when none of us want to do what we should.

I am of the "type" that the L-rd has stood by me so many times when I was not fun for him that I am glad to make some small "payment" in return. And the "bad" time when my children and grandchildren were horrible - well as the truth be known - we now have a lot of fun remembering such times as we get back together.

BTW - I have never known a bishop or stake president that were so bad that I wished I could take their place. It is more fun for me to make "fun" of them than for me to do it.

The Traveler

[Windseeker]

Dark Stormy skies, consistent 20 knot wind, Iridescence green crystal clear sea, and my wife and kids cheering me from the beach. They said I was boosting up to 40 feet of air this Saturday.

now that's fun and well within the laws of god.

I feel bad for people that only find "fun" in activities that destroy the spirit.

[Guest]

karaoke party!!!

[rameumptom]

For me it isn't an issue of the Church establishing rules for me. It is an issue of whether I will rebel against Christ or not. Every time we choose to do our own will, rather than the will of God, we are rebelling against Him.

What you might consider "fun" really is an illusion. Drinking tea, coffee, beer, sex, etc., are all just temporary stimuli to our physical bodies. But they are not true joy or fun. They cannot measure up to being filled with the Holy Spirit, standing in the presence of the Lord in His temple, or having a clear conscience.

For me, "fun" is to give my will to God, and then watch what he does with me.

[rameumptom]

The funny thing, I might add, is that J.W. Marriott hotels serve coffee and tea. I would guess they have bars too. I assume Marriott is in good standing, even though he distributes drinks that God forbids. I have heard other Mormons justify this by saying the Marriotts would lose too much money if they didn't serve these drinks, but isn't it hypocritical to put profit before God's principle? Someone help me out here.

Marriott is the CEO of the hotels, not its owner. The owners are thousands of shareholders, the vast majority are not Mormon. He has to do their bidding, which includes an expectation that the hotel provide coffee and tea. That said, he has been able to use his influence to get Books of Mormon into every hotel room.

[LDSJewess]

I guess this all comes down to what each individual defines as fun.

Also everyone is different and comes from different backgrounds and has different likes and dislikes irregardless of whether they were raisedin the church, converted along the way, or are not members at all.

I guess I should be grateful that the Words of Wisdom was never my challenge and was like a walk in the park for me when I joined the church. I ahppen to be a health nut so I find the odor of cigarette smoke offensice and unhealthy. One the rare occasions in my youth before joining the church and had coffee, I became so jittery I was ill. Tea is not tastey to me, and I had found alcohol to leave me with upset stomach, headaches and never found alcohol to taste good. Drugs are out of the question because I want to live healthy for a very long time,

Then again I do not like sodas, lemonaide or fruit juices either because I don't like feeling that sugary high. Never understood why people like sodas because if they are good toilet bowl cleaners (and they are, they canot possibly be good for my insides.

For me living long and healthy supercedes getting ill or abusing my body.

I often wonder at what point in our lives we were told that drugs, alcohol and smoking was "fun".

So what is fun to me. Well last week we got together with about five other couples from the church and went out to eat at a great restaurant. We went together for fun and friendship. It was not a bibl study. Dinners conversation was funny, joking and jovial, political debates kept respectful and friendly, and lots of interesting topics. From dinner we went out dancing. More fun, joking, dancing, learning to line dance. Yes the restaurant where we had dinner and the place we all went dancing were serving alcohol, and waiters came buy to ask us for a drink order. So there was a lot of water and a few sodas being served at our table. We were having just as much fun as others there that were drinking alcohol only we would be safer drivers going home and not needing to deal with headaches, hangovers etc:

On other nights with the same little crowd we go to a movie, or exhange getting together for pot luck's in each others homes and play board games .

I am in the cruise business so we go on a lot of cruises with firends or on our own and even in larger groups. Yes the cruise ships have casinos (they reek of smoke and I see no fun in tossing my money into a machine). We see shows, sightsee, go to spas, dance and everything others do on cruises but don't order alcohol.

As for the "dirty" thoughts, many Mormons are married and they are likely not celibate since there seem to be a lot of kids and grandkids roaming arouns that did not arrive by way of the stork. LOL

Personally I think people get caught up in custom or what they were taught to think was "fun". I have to laught when my own husband who has said he feels he wants the option to have a beer once in a while said comes from a German family so they have to have a beer once in a while. HUH???? That's a rule to being born German? LOL He is still an active church member just not ready to go to the Temple and that is something he can work on and is betweenn him and Heavenly Father and in the meantime won't lie about it.

So I guess what I am saying is you have to define fun and what it means to you. Everything we do is a choice. For some the Words of Wisdom is more of a challenge than for others.

One thing I would suggest for the op is to put into perspective that fun does not equal evil and deprivation does not equal virtue.

I find that the Words of wisdom are not about merely obedience and pleasing Heavenly Father, rather they are guidelines for us that when we follow the guidelines we can be happier and healthier. And to me happy and healthy equals more fun! :)

[dahlia]

I'm just saying that if you don't drink, why should you be tempted by drink? I don't do drugs or smoke. I'm not tempted if someone walks past me and I can smell marijuana or smoke on them.

Maybe I'm completely off here, but I think I'm more of an example if I go with my friends and co-workers and don't drink than if I say I can never go where they go or if I try to make them feel like they're wrong or evil because they like a glass of wine with dinner.

Like I said, I went for years without drinking, and I went in bars. I wasn't tempted BECAUSE I DIDN'T DRINK. I don't see the difficulty.

One of the things we've been talking about in RS is how non-Mormons see us as insular. Well, no kidding if we won't go in places with non-Mormons just because liquor happens to be served.

Maybe the missionaries should focus on converting people <20. Some of us more mature types are perfectly capable of living the WOW, even in a bar.

[Madriglace]

I have never felt deprived ... of course even in high school I just didn't get the fun in going out and getting drunk and puking on your shoes and not remembering what you did. Really the WOW isn't an issue for me ... decision made ... done. Now going in a bar bothers me ... my friends know I don't drink but it just isn't comfortable ... I always feel like the Holy Ghost is waiting outside for me. But that's just me.

[Jenamarie]

I have never felt deprived ... of course even in high school I just didn't get the fun in going out and getting drunk and puking on your shoes and not remembering what you did. Really the WOW isn't an issue for me ... decision made ... done. Now going in a bar bothers me ... my friends know I don't drink but it just isn't comfortable ... I always feel like the Holy Ghost is waiting outside for me. But that's just me.

I agree. Getting drunk has never held any appeal for me. And tea and coffee... eh. Mostly I hear people complaining about how they wish they weren't so dependent on them to "function" properly. I don't like feeling dependent on any not-medically-necessary substance.

And drunk people make me very uncomfortable. I don't go to bars for this reason. We sometimes go to DH's office Christmas party, where there's always a cash bar, but we leave at around 10pm (party typically goes until midnight or 2am) since that's about when the less pleasant attributes of intoxication start to make their appearance and I start feeling wiggy.

[clevermoniker]

Marriott is the CEO of the hotels, not its owner. The owners are thousands of shareholders, the vast majority are not Mormon. He has to do their bidding, which includes an expectation that the hotel provide coffee and tea. That said, he has been able to use his influence to get Books of Mormon into every hotel room.

Marriott is also listed as one of the top profiters from Porn, because of all of the money they make from pay per view adult movies.

that being said, the Church has owned stock in companies that sell alcohol. Brigham Young was the first producer and seller of wine in Utah. LDS members are permitted to work in casinos and can still go to the Temple.

What does it mean? It means that certain things are legal, and others have free will. And we have the free will to profit from it.

[FunkyTown]

What does it mean? It means that certain things are legal, and others have free will. And we have the free will to profit from it.

I'm... Unsure if you're being serious here.

[Dravin]

I'm just saying that if you don't drink, why should you be tempted by drink?

By that logic there would be no drinkers because nobody has booze poured down their throat as they come out of the womb. Everyone starts out not drinking. Just because one doesn't engage in behavior doesn't mean there is no temptation in behavior. That said I suspect most LDS avoid bars not because they are worried they are going to impulsively order a beer but because they dislike the atmosphere (or what they suppose the atmosphere is).

Maybe I'm completely off here, but I think I'm more of an example if I go with my friends and co-workers and don't drink than if I say I can never go where they go or if I try to make them feel like they're wrong or evil because they like a glass of wine with dinner.

Who said anything about making them feel evil? Not going to a bar with someone is making them feel evil?

One of the things we've been talking about in RS is how non-Mormons see us as insular. Well, no kidding if we won't go in places with non-Mormons just because liquor happens to be served.

What is this we can't? Many choose not to go to certain places but I know of no Church direction that stipulates if liquor is served somewhere that we 'can't' enter. There is a world of difference between a bar and a Red Robin, I don't know of any LDS who object to entering a Red Robin or an Apple Bees because it has a bar. Because something has a bar doesn't make it 'a bar'.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dravin

[FunkyTown]

By that logic their would be no drinkers because nobody has booze poured down their throat as they come out of the womb. Everyone starts out not drinking. Just because one doesn't engage in behavior doesn't mean there is no temptation in behavior. That said I suspect most LDS avoid bars not because they are worried they are going to impulsively order a beer but because they dislike the atmosphere (or what they suppose the atmosphere is).

Who said anything about making them feel evil? Not going to a bar with someone is making them feel evil?

What is this we can't? Many choose not to go to certain places but I know of no Church direction that stipulates if liquor is served somewhere that we 'can't' enter. There is a world of difference between a bar and a Red Robin, I don't know of any LDS who object to entering a Red Robin or an Apple Bees because it has a bar. Because something has a bar doesn't make it 'a bar'.

You go to Apple Bee's? I'm judging you right now.

They serve liquor there. Me, I won't go near anything that either serves liquor or casts a shadow(Because we're told not to live in darkness).

[pam]

that being said, the Church has owned stock in companies that sell alcohol.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what companies?

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure there was a news story within the last couple of years that Marriott's hotels would not provide access to porn channels. Am I the only one who remembers this?

[pam]

I remember it. And if you google it there are several articles that talk about how Marriott has phased it out of their hotels.

[Just_A_Guy]

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what companies?

One example:

IIRC, the Church was a major stakeholder in the Hotel Utah and ultimately acquiesced when the other stakeholders insisted that alcohol be served on the premises.

[Guest]

And then there's Nauvoo Cafe in SLC, which serves no "cafe" whatsoever. I had to chuckle at my friend's account of trying to explain that to a European client he treated to lunch there.

[pam]

One example:

IIRC, the Church was a major stakeholder in the Hotel Utah and ultimately acquiesced when the other stakeholders insisted that alcohol be served on the premises.

I've heard that in the past and I keep searching and searching and I can't find anything on that. I've googled it about every way I can think of. I think I'm googled out.

[clevermoniker]

I'm... Unsure if you're being serious here.

I'm being... half serious.

[Dravin]

They serve liquor there. Me, I won't go near anything that either serves liquor or casts a shadow(Because we're told not to live in darkness).

/me pictures Funky finding the mini-bar in his hotel room at night and forced to choose between existing in darkness and fleeing the scene.

[cwald]

Do my fellow mormons ever think that they are not allowed to have fun? Seriously.

Yes, I do.

One example, I don't enjoy church at all. I would much rather be out with my kids hiking or playing ball and "having fun." Instead I'm often times stuck in church meetings 3, 4, 5 even 6 hours on Sundays. That's not fun.