Miami Zombie

[Bini]

What's saddening is seeing the life transformation of Ronald Poppo. A Google search will pull up his Before and After photos (pre-homeless & homeless). Be warned though, you'll likely pull up images of Poppo post-attack, which are needless to say, disturbing. I wonder what changes he might have made if he were given the chance to re-live his earlier years, knowing that his current path led to homelessness and a vicious mauling, where he loses his face to a cannibalistic attacker.

[Hala401]

I haven't read much about this news story because it makes my stomach turn. But in case someone else has, I just have one question: why did the other guy lie there for so long and take it?

Perhaps it was a case of stuporous drunkenness along with heavy drug use on the part of the victim?

[Echo2002]

That's scary if this stuff is as addictive as meth. I've heard one hit of meth can have a person hooked. I spoke to a girl on an online forum that tried it because I guess she wanted to see what the fuss was about. She said it was very hard for her not to use it again, because she had such a strong craving for it after the first use. She resisted though and she said it scared her to death to have taken something so potent.

Drugs are going to be the downfall of this country if it isn't already.

[Echo2002]

Wow, I made the mistake of looking at the picture of what's left of that guy's face. I don't see how another human could do that to someone. I hope they can save the eye he has.

[Guest]

I don't want to see the aftermath. I'm disturbed enough just hearing about it.

[Hala401]

That's scary if this stuff is as addictive as meth. I've heard one hit of meth can have a person hooked. I spoke to a girl on an online forum that tried it because I guess she wanted to see what the fuss was about. She said it was very hard for her not to use it again, because she had such a strong craving for it after the first use. She resisted though and she said it scared her to death to have taken something so potent.

Drugs are going to be the downfall of this country if it isn't already.

Well lets be really, really frank here. I get my information from the Police, not from personal experience. The thing about Meth that people should be really, really alarmed over is that one dose of the stuff and as you say, you are hooked. Just one dose.

The effect of Meth is that it ramps the sexual experience up by a factor of 10 or more. That goes on for a very few months and then all pleasure with it stops; FOREVER! Perhaps women suffer the worst, because the stuff rips at your reproductive organs, leaving one incapable of bearing children, and it does mean things to your kidneys, heart and liver. Women's teeth fall out, all of them, and an 18 year old looks like a very haggard 50 year old.

If you are this young woman's friend, then perhaps you'd consider trying to be her guardian angel, because if she did it once, the craving will be there, no matter how much she does not want it, for the rest of her life. If someone does not care for her a great deal, she will fall to the temptation.

And, it makes my blood boil when someone blames the victim of the drug for failing. I am normally not wrathful, but I think the only way to stop this is to activate the National Guard and shoot, without trial anyone caught trafficing.

[Bini]

Returning to the topic. Recently, (within a year or so) hubby and I caught an episode on Dateline, about a man who lost his son to a substance similar to these Bath Salts (DH tells me that they were Bath Salts but I don't recall). Before the son commit suicide (by shooting himself in the head), he began to peel the flesh off of his own face, and not just bits but most of his face. The interesting (and highly disturbing) connection is the mutilating of flesh, from this case and the Rudy Eugene case.

[dahlia]

There was one article I read where the attacker's mother was upset that the police officer killed him. She thought they should have just tazed him a couple of times. The police officer shot him once first but the guy just looked up and growled at him. I think the police officer did the right thing by killing him. What if the guy would have turned on someone else, or got away?

I agree that the cop did the right thing. When I lived in Seattle, a naked man walked up to a law enforcement officer. Apparently the LEO didn't think he had too much to fear and he let the guy get close to him. Well, the guy took the LEO's gun and killed him with it. Just awful. So yeah, when a perp is this crazy, I say shoot away and don't take chances.

[Hala401]

I agree that the cop did the right thing. When I lived in Seattle, a naked man walked up to a law enforcement officer. Apparently the LEO didn't think he had too much to fear and he let the guy get close to him. Well, the guy took the LEO's gun and killed him with it. Just awful. So yeah, when a perp is this crazy, I say shoot away and don't take chances.

You hear stories where men say, "Never pull your gun unless you plan to use it". And to an extent I think that is right. If you do take your gun out, be ready to use it, but sometimes you don't have to do it. I am sure that there are people who have died because they were so high on drugs they did not know what they were doing. Now, whose fault is that?

No officer goes on duty to kill people.

[Bini]

You hear stories where men say, "Never pull your gun unless you plan to use it". And to an extent I think that is right. If you do take your gun out, be ready to use it, but sometimes you don't have to do it. I am sure that there are people who have died because they were so high on drugs they did not know what they were doing. Now, whose fault is that?

No officer goes on duty to kill people.

And that would be the unfortunate consequence of their actions. If not under the instruction of a physician, using drugs can be dangerous and potentially fatal. Certain drugs will take you completely out of your head, and cause erratic behaviour. At some point, the user said "yes", and chose their poison. Sadly, people ignore the down-spiraling path that drugs often lead to. But is a person accountable for hurting or killing another person while under the influence? Absolutely, as are drunk drivers who hit pedestrians or ram into other vehicles on the road, killing innocent people. They made their decision. There will be consequences that follow.

[NeuroTypical]

At some point, the user said "yes", and chose their poison.

...

But is a person accountable for hurting or killing another person while under the influence? Absolutely, as are drunk drivers who hit pedestrians or ram into other vehicles on the road, killing innocent people. They made their decision.

Sort of off topic, but things are often more complicated than that. Something like this may be a bit better:

"At some point, the user said "yes", and chose their poison, unless their poison was administered to them against their knowledge or consent."

In order for there to be agency, there has to be a choice in the matter. Some girls get something slipped to them at a party, when their only choice is to ignore advice about being careful. Victims of the slave trade (especially those kidnapped/sold and pressed into the sex trade) have their abductors force addictions upon them in order to make them more managable and compliant. Some children born to addicted mothers, experience lifelong consequences not of their choosing. And of course, we must be very, very hesitant to pass such judgement against people who kill themselves while under the influence of something.

We're often just simple not in posession of enough facts and tools to cast righteous judgement in such matters. We will send these folks through our earthly justice systems, which are often very horribly flawed shadows of God's pure and perfect justice system. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking we know someone's heart, and how guilty and responsible for their own choices they truly are from an eternal perspective.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Bini]

Sort of off topic, but things are often more complicated than that. Something like this may be a bit better:

"At some point, the user said "yes", and chose their poison, unless their poison was administered to them against their knowledge or consent."

In order for there to be agency, there has to be a choice in the matter. Some girls get something slipped to them at a party, when their only choice is to ignore advice about being careful. Victims of the slave trade (especially those kidnapped/sold and pressed into the sex trade) have their abductors force addictions upon them in order to make them more managable and compliant. Some children born to addicted mothers, experience lifelong consequences not of their choosing. And of course, we must be very, very hesitant to pass such judgement against people who kill themselves while under the influence of something.

We're often just simple not in posession of enough facts and tools to cast righteous judgement in such matters. We will send these folks through our earthly justice systems, which are often very horribly flawed shadows of God's pure and perfect justice system. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking we know someone's heart, and how guilty and responsible for their own choices they truly are from an eternal perspective.

I agree with what you're saying here, LM.

That said. There are still consequences. No one said life's fair. Certainly, bad things happen to good people all the time. However, if a deranged lunatic barged into our home and attacked me and my daughter, my husband would shoot the guy DEAD. Whose fault is that? I agree, I agree, it's not as crystal clear if the man was forced to take whatever drug he was under the influence on but too bad at this point.

[Hala401]

Sort of off topic, but things are often more complicated than that. Something like this may be a bit better:

"At some point, the user said "yes", and chose their poison, unless their poison was administered to them against their knowledge or consent."

In order for there to be agency, there has to be a choice in the matter. Some girls get something slipped to them at a party, when their only choice is to ignore advice about being careful. Victims of the slave trade (especially those kidnapped/sold and pressed into the sex trade) have their abductors force addictions upon them in order to make them more managable and compliant. Some children born to addicted mothers, experience lifelong consequences not of their choosing. And of course, we must be very, very hesitant to pass such judgement against people who kill themselves while under the influence of something.

We're often just simple not in posession of enough facts and tools to cast righteous judgement in such matters. We will send these folks through our earthly justice systems, which are often very horribly flawed shadows of God's pure and perfect justice system. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking we know someone's heart, and how guilty and responsible for their own choices they truly are from an eternal perspective.

I was never a victim of the slave trade, though after some very casual work with certain agencies, I now think that I have seen them. I am not working with the victims now because the stories are so tragic that they literally break me.

In the so called legitimate Medical field, I suffered a break after events I was involved in post 9/11. Suddenly I was on so many prescription drugs that its amazing that I survived. I am not on them now because physicians began to alert me that I was way over-medicated. I gradually got off them, but not before a divorce, and loss of everything. Now days, my friends say the divorce was needed to free me from an abusive relationship. I make the argument that it was too painful, but they laugh at me and ask me if I am happier now? I am.

[mirkwood]

A meth user I have spoken with described it like this: "I gave Satan the keys to my body and had to sit back and watch the ride." She quit using after that and has stayed clean ever since.

Meth is equally destructive to both sexes. There is not a worse drug out there, not that any are good mind you, but meth is by far the worst. The worst fights I've been in at work have been with meth users.

[dahlia]

The worst fights I've been in at work have been with meth users.

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of job do you have that you fight with people at work or that people are using meth? Are you physically fighting with these people or are they just hard to deal with?

Regarding 'worst drugs,' crack sure comes in close to meth. There have always been poor black single mothers, but many of them went to church, worked low level jobs or tried to live decent lives on public assistance, but when crack came in, all that went out the window.

I lived in Philly during the height of the crack epidemic. The news stories about what crack mothers did to their kids, how they abused or neglected them, abandoned them, sold them, just went on for years. I've never seen anything like that. Poverty wasn't the cause of this degraded behavior, crack was. Terrible stuff.

[Bini]

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of job do you have that you fight with people at work or that people are using meth? Are you physically fighting with these people or are they just hard to deal with?

Regarding 'worst drugs,' crack sure comes in close to meth. There have always been poor black single mothers, but many of them went to church, worked low level jobs or tried to live decent lives on public assistance, but when crack came in, all that went out the window.

I lived in Philly during the height of the crack epidemic. The news stories about what crack mothers did to their kids, how they abused or neglected them, abandoned them, sold them, just went on for years. I've never seen anything like that. Poverty wasn't the cause of this degraded behavior, crack was. Terrible stuff.

I believe Mirk is a police officer.

[mirkwood]

Bini is correct, I am a police officer.

[Hala401]

Bini is correct, I am a police officer.

I tried to be once. Too much! Thank you for your service.

[bds4206]

Since it was sold at local gas stations (at least here in TN it was) there's no telling how many people have used it since it's inception. I don't even know how addictive it is.

They just shut down a gas station here on the East Coast of Florida that was selling them. The local Police investigated for a year with the DEA I believe. However in that year that they were 'investigating" the salts were being sold....not only is this a very nasty drug, but the one's I've seen are packaged and named in a way that makes them extra appealing to children.... we can't do anything about this type of stuff really. Even if we could completely remove bath salts from the streets there'd be something new in about 5 minutes. We just have to talk to our kids about this stuff and make sure they have the family foundation to avoid this disgusting part of society. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

Yup, this did prompt a discussion with my kids. Just because they don't recognize something as drugs, they should never put anything into their bodies if they don't know what it is, and never eat or sniff something to make you feel good, or just because your friends are doing it, etc. etc. etc. My kids are young and in elementary school. I hate that I have to remind them of stuff like this.

[Dravin]

and never eat or sniff something to make you feel good

You'll get my lemon squares when you pry them from my cold sticky fingers!

[Guest]

D'oh!

[applepansy]

I hadn't heard about this until today. I remember last year or the year before hearing about bath salts here in Utah. There was a special legislative session held to make it illegal. I'm glad they did, but just being illegal doesn't mean its not available.

[Hala401]

I use Epson Salts in the bath quite a lot. Didn't know you could get high off of it. Wow, how can they control that?

[Jenamarie]

I use Epson Salts in the bath quite a lot. Didn't know you could get high off of it. Wow, how can they control that?

"Bath salts" the drug, and bath salts that you put in the tub are entirely separate substances. Just like "weed" isn't illicit dandelions.