Limiting God

[prisonchaplain]

I find it ironic that PC is concerned that some limit G-d in what they think G-d is doing but in reality the limiting man is not only the definition of Damnation (that by definition is being confined within limits) but also a means of limiting G-d or what is understood as G-d’s greatest achievement. In essence limiting G-d by what we will believe G-d can achieve in man. To say man cannot ever be like G-d.

The Traveler

I have to quibble with a small but crucial point--traditionalists are adamant that man will never become God. There is no doubt but that those who inherit eternal reward will become godlike. We shall see as He sees and experience unimaginable glories.

[prisonchaplain]

Sicily, the reason we focus on what seems speculative, is that the issue of creation touches upon what LDS teaching says we were (pre-mortality) and what we shall become (Gods). If all of creation started with Genesis 1, and was "out of nothing," it would seem to lend credence to the more traditional view that there was no pre-mortal existance for humanity. And if that is so, the traditional teaching that we will become exalted humans, but not Gods, also seems more likely.

On the other hand, if matter is eternal, and God merely "fashioned" or "organized" it during the creation event, then the LDS teachings about pre-mortal existance and some of the faithful's eventual glorification to full Godhood becomes more plausible. This is why a seemingly philosophical and speculative discussion grabs our attention so forcefully.

[Traveler]

I have to quibble with a small but crucial point--traditionalists are adamant that man will never become God. There is no doubt but that those who inherit eternal reward will become godlike. We shall see as He sees and experience unimaginable glories.

Exactly - and by that small but crucial point traditionalists limit G-d. The point is that in so believing you limit G-d - since man is the greatest creation of G-d (even to call man his children) it is the limit of what G-d can and does create - it at its very core believes and assums that G-d can't - mankind is his limit; the limit of what he can do. It must be a limit because we know there is something greater (G-d) - which fulfills in every way the meaning of limit.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Am I really limiting God if I report what I believe God says about himself?

[circusboy01]

"To say man cannot ever be like God"

Of course we cannot be like God in this temporal state that we're in, however, does that mean we should stop trying to be like him hoping and believing that we may become like him?

Isn't our purpose in this temporal state to prove that we want to be with and like Heavenly Father?

Gen. 3:22

¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

As man is God once was. As God is man may become. Brother Ray

[Traveler]

Am I really limiting God if I report what I believe God says about himself?

Sorry PC - I do not intend to drag this out because I believe that I limit G-d in many things more than you do. Often our words of criticism come back to haunt us and when we find ourselves on the opposite side of criticism from what we see ourselves - it is most difficult to deal with; especially if we think we are being misunderstood.

When we say that we cannot believe in a G-d that ______. What does it matter what is put in the _____? We can define that to be limiting or we can understand that what manner of man we should be (believe and exercise faith in) - even as he is.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

"To say man cannot ever be like God"

Of course we cannot be like God in this temporal state that we're in, however, does that mean we should stop trying to be like him hoping and believing that we may become like him?

Isn't our purpose in this temporal state to prove that we want to be with and like Heavenly Father?

Gen. 3:22

¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Just one little note - we can be like G-d in the temporal state. For example we can be baptized.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Sorry PC - I do not intend to drag this out because I believe that I limit G-d in many things more than you do. Often our words of criticism come back to haunt us and when we find ourselves on the opposite side of criticism from what we see ourselves - it is most difficult to deal with; especially if we think we are being misunderstood.

When we say that we cannot believe in a G-d that ______. What does it matter what is put in the _____? We can define that to be limiting or we can understand that what manner of man we should be (believe and exercise faith in) - even as he is.

The Traveler

When we define we limit. The distinction I drew at the beginning of the string was that people sometimes make their own limitations. For example, if I said, sans scriptural reference, that I could not believe in a God who would create beings that could become equal to him, I would be limiting God, based on my own preferences. However, when one says, "God is like this, because _____," and the blank if filled with scripture or other spiritual authority, there is a much more sound basis for conversation and understanding.

[Traveler]

When we define we limit. The distinction I drew at the beginning of the string was that people sometimes make their own limitations. For example, if I said, sans scriptural reference, that I could not believe in a God who would create beings that could become equal to him, I would be limiting God, based on my own preferences. However, when one says, "God is like this, because _____," and the blank if filled with scripture or other spiritual authority, there is a much more sound basis for conversation and understanding.

I do not think any person or group of people have limited G-d more or have tried to limit G-d more than did the Pharisees and their entire conversation in doing so was their expert (and traditional) understanding of scripture.

In rhetorical logic a single exception disproves a definitive premisses.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I do not think any person or group of people have limited G-d more or have tried to limit G-d more than did the Pharisees and their entire conversation in doing so was their expert (and traditional) understanding of scripture.

In rhetorical logic a single exception disproves a definitive premisses.

The Traveler

Spiritual writings must be spiritually discerned. The reality that some misapprehend scripture--even badly--and that others do so intentionally, negates not the writings themselves. Indeed, my original concern is those who would come to the scriptures thinking, "They must affirm ____, and they cannot support _____."

[Sicily510]

Thanks Traveler for highlighting that "we can be like G-d in the temporal state. For example we can be baptized. ". It makes total sense with the excerpt:

Gen. 3:22

¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We must take also of the tree of life (baptism Savior Jesus Christ) in order to gain everlasting life or return to Heavenly Father

Edited June 27, 2012 by Sicily510