Is the Gospel simple or complex?

[Traveler]

You may answer this any way you want - for example you can say simple on the surface but complex down deep - but please give you opinion if you are allowed to have one.

The Traveler

[annewandering]

Simple. God wants us all to understand it. Even stupid people. ^^

[wbrisett]

The Gospel is simple, in fact, it can be summed up in one word; Love.

Love your God with all your heart, Love your neighbor as yourself... Then there is always my personal favorite 1 John passage that God is love and to love is to know God.

That is the essence of the Gospel. We as humans can muck around with the message and try to make it complicated, but deep down it's all about love, His love for us and our love for Him.

Wayne

[Vort]

I do not know how to determine the simplicity or complexity of human relationships and interaction, of which the atonement is surely the ultimate example.

The good news is that Jesus atoned for sin so that we can gain eternal life. That seems simple. But to someone who has never heard of "Jesus" and who understands nothing about atonement, sin, eternal life, physical and spiritual death, the nature of God, the plan of salvation, the duration of eternity, and so forth, it's not at all simple. Even for those of us who suppose we understand those topics, our understanding of them is paper-thin when compared with their reality. We quite literally spend our lives learning about them so we can understand them better. That sounds extremely complex.

So I'm not sure the question has a good answer. I'm not even sure the question is really meaningful.

[applepansy]

Simple. People make it complicated.

[rameumptom]

The gospel is simple. WE make it complex.

[EarlJibbs]

Okay, this makes sense in my head, let me see if I can accurately write what I am thinking :)

The answer is both. Complex, but simple by design if done correctly.

You have to start at the beginning. Since it is all about progression, if you were to start your progression at going through the temple, it may not make sense and would be difficult. But for those that start at the beginning and work their way up so to speak, it should seem that nothing is too hard and manageable.

Think of Christ’s atonement. How did it work? The power of the priesthood, how does it work really? How was the Earth really created? If we jump in at that point, way too complex and we cannot understand. But I think that given the time needed to understand those things, like climbing a latter one rung at a time, the next rung will look like the previous one and it will be easy. Long, arduous, easy.

[Misshalfway]

I think it's paradoxically both.

"Love" for example. Simplest concept, but we need lots and lots of experience to learn it.

[Traveler]

I think it's paradoxically both.

"Love" for example. Simplest concept, but we need lots and lots of experience to learn it.

Hmmmm - I do not know that I have dealt with anything so complex and difficult to understand as love. I can kind of understand why I love others (at least some others) but trying to figure out why anyone loves me - especially G-d and my wife - well some things are so complex - it cannot be explained.

And if anyone has a simple explanation of loving your enemy - I still need some help with that one.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hmmmm - I do not know that I have dealt with anything so complex and difficult to understand as love. I can kind of understand why I love others (at least some others) but trying to figure out why anyone loves me - especially G-d and my wife - well some things are so complex - it cannot be explained.

And if anyone has a simple explanation of loving your enemy - I still need some help with that one.

The Traveler

It is a basic characteristic of a Celestial being, to take joy in the success of others. How else can joy be eternal? If it was just based in our own personal success it would be limited. But when one masters love, they truly experience the joy of someone else success.

We get a taste of that when our child does well in school or makes correct choices. To love your neighbor as your self will allow a person to have endless joy as all the successes are experienced as if you are doing it yourself. This is to inherit all that God has.

To learn to love all is a required step to obtain that empathetic skill of having eternal joy.

.... at least that is the "understanding" part of why it is needed and how it is important. I think part of learning to love your neighbor is why the family unit is so important, we get automatic trial runs at that concept on a daily basis.

[HEthePrimate]

Q: Is the Gospel simple or complex?

A: Yes.

[Sicily510]

The gospel is simple if you possess "FAITH" it's complex if you don't.

2 Timothy Chapter 2

Christ gives eternal glory to the elect---Shun contention and seek godliness.

In simple terms Christ gives eternal glory to those selected for divine mercy or favor; especially for salvation. Get rid of questions by seeking answers (Heavenly father, the all knowing, pure knowledge)....it's like education instead of waiting for shool to inform you just take a look and read a book, why not try the scriptures.

Roman 5:5-6

And hope maketh not ashame; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (The spirit endowed by our creator)

6.For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

God has a law and principle, by the measure of our faith in following such laws/principles (Jesus Christ) he will judge.

Romans 5:18-21

Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.

21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here is a translation that probably is more simplified for you:

Romans 5:18-21

New International Version (NIV)

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Traveler]

The gospel is simple if you possess "FAITH" it's complex if you don't.

2 Timothy Chapter 2

Christ gives eternal glory to the elect---Shun contention and seek godliness.

In simple terms Christ gives eternal glory to those selected for divine mercy or favor; especially for salvation. Get rid of questions by seeking answers (Heavenly father, the all knowing, pure knowledge)....it's like education instead of waiting for shool to inform you just take a look and read a book, why not try the scriptures.

Roman 5:5-6

And hope maketh not ashame; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (The spirit endowed by our creator)

6.For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

God has a law and principle, by the measure of our faith in following such laws/principles (Jesus Christ) he will judge.

Romans 5:18-21

Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.

21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here is a translation that probably is more simplified for you:

Romans 5:18-21

New International Version (NIV)

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hmmm - perhaps I did not pose the question correctly - let me try again. Do you find the Gospel of Jesus Christ simple or complex and why? I appreciate that you have studied the scriptures - How is that working for you? Are all your questions answered? Is it all wrapped up and a done deal for you? - if so was it simple or was it complex for you?

The Traveler

[Sicily510]

I find the gospel of Jesus Christ amazing, and to utilize the scriptures to seek answers has caused many blessings throughout my life. I live in faith as a member, I am not perfect in understanding and representing information of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-days. However, growing up in it has informed me that no one is perfect, and we are to hold steadfast to our faith in Christ because he is the only true way to eternal happiness. It's demising the purpose of our saviors sacrifice if we were perfect. This church and this gospel has helped me to realize that my temporal life is a test of my faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in showing how much I want to be with them.

This is why I believe it to be simple, when adhering to the gospels and teaching it has only strengthened my faith due to the wonderful blessings I've conceived (counts my blessings). This gospel has always provided a positive information and understanding of Jesus Christ and guidance through these latter-day prophets such as Thomas S. Monson. I believe Joseph Smith was a living prophet who was seeking truth in Heavenly father (God) and was able to receive a vision through his faith. My faith has been tested and shakened by the trials and tribulations I face in these latter-days, not in everything I do can I say heavenly father has been with me. I am able to state that when I do good it was due to the thoughts of either a scripture, teachings, and prayer and those were times I allowed heavenly father to be with me.

To say that the gospel is complex in my opinion would be because I am not willing to understand and accept it for what it truly is. The gospel of Jesus Christ is changing many to live by faith and good works allowing everyone to live in a spiritual unity. I've been ,for the very first time, to a Sunday class in relief society where two members were in a arguement and it was in regards to whether the whole world entirely flooded or a certain continent. I was shocked because of the fact that these two were arguing over a details of the flood instead of the purpose of the flood. This helped me understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions of what they are reading, and that not everyone is going to have a birds eye view of the scriptures, even myself.

Faith has been an essential key benefactor for me to truly seek heavenly father. Faith has given me the spirit to seek answers to many of my afflictions when I pray and read. This church has enabled me to exercise my faith individually by encouraging me to search, ponder, and pray. It's core value is to live by faith in Jesus Christ and each day nourishing it by the things we do in our daily lives that is good.

I never felt that the color of my skin was an issue in this church, I have a sister-in-law who is German and Italian. She's a member and she said one time to me when I was sixteen that if I continue to be righteous I'll become white as snow or possibly like her. LOL, hahahaha I was thinking to myself..okay, so I'm not good enough since I'm very dark. She wasn't quoting anything in particular in the scriptures, but I read the scriptures and didn't feel that what she explained was equivalent to what the scriptures informed me spiritually. I was able to have an understanding that a curse wasn't based on the color of the skin but the ignorance of the people in rejecting the commandments. All in all, I can say that my family was cursed with some of the sins that have been conveyed in the scriptures. And to be able to identify what was given as a precaution in the scriptures was a testimony for me in this church. Keep his commandments is all that he ask of his children, and the more I strive will my desires in heavenly father be revealed at judgement. Also, what better way to inform the children what's right from wrong in their early years and to be accountable for all their wrong choices by apologizing, and trying not to do it again. I would say that's the simplest teachings and close similarity to our saviors atonement one could get.

The Church Of Jesus Christ of These Latter-days provided information of how to live a better quality of life through teachings that earlier prophets before christ, during Jesus Christ, and after Jesus Christ death preached.

Proverbs 22:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Ephesians 6:1-8

1.Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

(My parents weren't necessarily with the lord in their decisions of raising a family, however, I was able to learn from their mistakes. As for the family duties and respect I actually learned from church. My parents sometimes rationalized to justify their wickedness. Fortunately, the church taught me right from wrong and accountability that I was able to make decisions accordingly.)

2. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)

(Just because my parents weren't with the lord in poor decisions they've made doesn't mean for me to not do as I'm told...such as chores, coming home at a certain time, and to not hang out with kids who cause trouble. Now that I'm older my parents still ask for me to do things and I try to do as they would like...I'm not really good at it but I'm trying to become better. :))

3. That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4. And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

(Family trials and tribulations helped fulfill this verse.)

5. Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling in singlesness of your heart, as unto Christ;

(When I read servants it's not slaves but those who serve others as in jobs, community service, and school. To be obedient to the manager, leader, teachers according with respect and good deeds.)

6 Not with eyeservices, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7. With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8. Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

1 Peter 2:20-25

For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21.For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22.Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23.Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24:Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25.For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Reading the scriptures is easy, it's easier when you have the topical guide, index, and others to constructively discuss points of view on the excerpts and applying it into our daily lives.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Sicily510
mispelled words

[batman16]

I believe if you look at the context in which the gospel is given... That is: from a perfect omnipotent God, to simple mortal beings such as ourselves is in sense suppose to be simple. To understand everything as is would be is complicated because we are not on a plane of understanding that God is.

In other words, the Gospel for us on this earth to gain salvation is simple, sometimes difficult, yes. While the full purpose behind the gospel in a larger eternal spectrum is to complicated for simple minds to understand until we have reach that point in the plan that we can understand it as a simple concept.

for me 2+2=4 = simple, for me trying to understand pie = complicated, but it would be simple to a mathematician.

[Vort]

for me 2+2=4 = simple, for me trying to understand pie = complicated, but it would be simple to a mathematician.

Or for my son, who loves to bake. Easy as pie.

[Traveler]

...

for me 2+2=4 = simple, for me trying to understand pie = complicated, but it would be simple to a mathematician.

As a mathematician and for the fun as well as enlightenment of the forum the 2+2=4 is only a partial and incomplete understanding of the binary operation of addition as defined by the theory of real numbers. For a more complete understanding it should read as follows:

2 (<or=) 2+2 (<or=) 4

However it can become even more complex should we include the theory of imaginary numbers.

The Traveler

[Finrock]

Hmmm - perhaps I did not pose the question correctly - let me try again. Do you find the Gospel of Jesus Christ simple or complex and why? I appreciate that you have studied the scriptures - How is that working for you? Are all your questions answered? Is it all wrapped up and a done deal for you? - if so was it simple or was it complex for you?

The Traveler

Good evening The Traveler. I hope you are doing well. :)

You have specifically solicited the opinions of others, emphasizing that one may answer as they choose, and yet here in your post to sicily you seemingly chastise her for not understanding the question. This doesnt seem to be fair.

Furthermore, she answered the question in the manner specified and then provided scripture to demonstrate her point. All conditions of your OP were met. She said that the gospel is simple for those with faith and complex for those without faith. Whether you agree with that opinion or not doesnt take away from the fact that it is a reasonable opinion and it fulfilled all that you requested. So, what more can you reasonably ask?

Regards,

Finrock

[Traveler]

Good evening The Traveler. I hope you are doing well. :)

You have specifically solicited the opinions of others, emphasizing that one may answer as they choose, and yet here in your post to sicily you seemingly chastise her for not understanding the question. This doesnt seem to be fair.

Furthermore, she answered the question in the manner specified and then provided scripture to demonstrate her point. All conditions of your OP were met. She said that the gospel is simple for those with faith and complex for those without faith. Whether you agree with that opinion or not doesnt take away from the fact that it is a reasonable opinion and it fulfilled all that you requested. So, what more can you reasonably ask?

Regards,

Finrock

Interesting post. For me, my best mentors in life have always pushed me beyond my answers to think, analyze, seek understanding and perform beyond what I thought was "good enough". When I competed in alpine events a very expensive coach would ski close to me and if he did not think I was paying attention he would literally push me - knocking me over.

In scripture we see an angel asking Adam why he build and alter and made sacrifices. Often we see that questions are asked to encourage not just an answer to question but a understanding of life. Nephi said to liken the scriptures unto ourselves. One way to do such a thing is realize that Moses leaving Egypt is not just an event in ancient history but a prophesy of you and I leaving the world behind and becoming converted. Then each event and chastisement we may discover echo through time and have meaning in our day.

Often when individuals quote scripture I like to question so I can understand what I can learn from them as to why they quoted a particular scripture and how they apply that scripture to them.

Have you not had good mentors ask you difficult questions?

The Traveler

[Finrock]

Interesting post. For me, my best mentors in life have always pushed me beyond my answers to think, analyze, seek understanding and perform beyond what I thought was "good enough". When I competed in alpine events a very expensive coach would ski close to me and if he did not think I was paying attention he would literally push me - knocking me over.

In scripture we see an angel asking Adam why he build and alter and made sacrifices. Often we see that questions are asked to encourage not just an answer to question but a understanding of life. Nephi said to liken the scriptures unto ourselves. One way to do such a thing is realize that Moses leaving Egypt is not just an event in ancient history but a prophesy of you and I leaving the world behind and becoming converted. Then each event and chastisement we may discover echo through time and have meaning in our day.

Often when individuals quote scripture I like to question so I can understand what I can learn from them as to why they quoted a particular scripture and how they apply that scripture to them.

Have you not had good mentors ask you difficult questions?

The Traveler

Good evening The Traveler. Thank you for the response. To answer your question; Yes, I have had good mentors ask me difficult questions.

I didn't realize that you and Sicily had a mentor relationship: My apologies. Chastisement from a trusted mentor is one thing; I perceived your chastisement as condescending towards Sicily.

Regards,

Finrock

[GeorgiaRED]

Simple. People make it complicated.

I was going to say complex but this user answered the question. I'm not saying that she

s/ he's right. I just agree with applepansy

[Traveler]

Good evening The Traveler. Thank you for the response. To answer your question; Yes, I have had good mentors ask me difficult questions.

I didn't realize that you and Sicily had a mentor relationship: My apologies. Chastisement from a trusted mentor is one thing; I perceived your chastisement as condescending towards Sicily.

Regards,

Finrock

Like your Chastisement of me?

The Traveler

[LinuxGal]

Think of Christ’s atonement. How did it work?

Jesus freely accepted the worst thing the Romans could do to a man in obedience to his Father's commandment. And Jesus as the Son of God obeyed his Father in full union with Jesus the Son of Man. For those six hours as Jesus suffered, he represented the whole human race, in every time and place. With the obedience of Jesus Christ unto a death on a cross, Satan's final claim against human beings for their disobedience was silenced forever. Jesus pleased God infinitely more than Adam (and all of us) displeased him.