Politics in Church arg

[Wingnut]

Ever notice how during presidential elections in the United States, we in the Church are studying The Book of Mormon?

Think about it.:)

Four standard works, four year election cycle. I'm willing to go with coincidence more than anything.

[Vort]

Ever notice how during presidential elections in the United States, we in the Church are studying The Book of Mormon?

Think about it.:)

I hear we're changing the cycle to be studying Old Testament those years.

[skalenfehl]

It's not a coincidence that we study the BoM each election year. A careful study of the books of Alma, Helaman and 3rd and 4th Nephi beginning with the last chapters of Mosiah will tell us why. We need to understand that we are following in the exact same footsteps over the proverbial cliff. We take liberty and the Constitution for granted. We are not learning the lessons that God has given to us, learned too late by the Nephites.

One important characteristic of a Zion people is being of a single mind. We are not. We are just as divided and lost as the rest of the population who have no idea where to find the truth.

Quotes – Latter-day Conservative

[Dravin]

Four standard works, four year election cycle. I'm willing to go with coincidence more than anything.

And really, one could turn any of the three other coincidences into a 'coincidence'.

New Testament: Caesar, Pharisees, and the Sanhedrin.

Old Testament: Jehovah as King, Saul, and the split into the Kingdom of Israel and Judah.

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History: Principles of (church) leadership, Mobocracy, the Constitution, and D&C 134.

[Wingnut]

And really, one could turn any of the three other coincidences into a 'coincidence'.

New Testament: Caesar, Pharisees, and the Sanhedrin.

Old Testament: Jehovah as King, Saul, and the split into the Kingdom of Israel and Judah.

Doctrine and Covenants and Church History: Principles of (church) leadership, Mobocracy, the Constitution, and D&C 134.

My point exactly. Truth is found in all of the scriptures, not just in the Book of Mormon. We can learn about righteous theocracy from any of the Standard Works.

[annewandering]

I always feel sorry for people that dont like conflict and find themselves in church being told that liberal is evil. Its wonderful that people integrate the church and politics in a moral way but to assume that it is church doctrine is harming everyone including themselves. Then to take it upon themselves to preach it in church is beyond the pale.

I was talking to my mom this last few hours. She was telling me of times that she has come close to just walking out of church because of the people who just cant keep their opinions on it to themselves at church. How many people have been driven from the church over this? My cousin tells me she has a strong testimony but just cant sit there in church and listen to the people preaching politics instead of gospel. It hurts her. Spiritually and emotionally.

You all remember how long, in the Book of Mormon, people lasted doing good and following church teachings before they became prideful, vain and full of themselves and fell away? hmmm And how old is the church now?

[Iggy]

Four standard works, four year election cycle. I'm willing to go with coincidence more than anything.

Nope, not coincidence- the church does things for very specific reasons. IMPO.

[Guest]

anne, would you feel the same if you agreed with the politics being discussed? I can't help but think that much of your offense is because you have liberal tendencies.

Not that I think church is the place for political debate. I just think that might be fanning the fire for you.

[prisonchaplain]

anne, would you feel the same if you agreed with the politics being discussed? I can't help but think that much of your offense is because you have liberal tendencies.

Not that I think church is the place for political debate. I just think that might be fanning the fire for you.

Maybe it's a justifiable fire...perhaps the observation is valid?

(By way of disclosure, I've served under leaders who privately extoled politicians and parties I opposed, and under leaders who privately extoled those I agreed with. Ironically, the latter was more cautious).

[Guest]

Maybe it's a justifiable fire...perhaps the observation is valid?

I'm not saying it's not valid, just that hearing politics you disagree with at church would be a pokier burr under the saddle than hearing that with which you're inclined to agree.

[Sicily510]

I always feel sorry for people that dont like conflict and find themselves in church being told that liberal is evil. Its wonderful that people integrate the church and politics in a moral way but to assume that it is church doctrine is harming everyone including themselves. Then to take it upon themselves to preach it in church is beyond the pale.

I was talking to my mom this last few hours. She was telling me of times that she has come close to just walking out of church because of the people who just cant keep their opinions on it to themselves at church. How many people have been driven from the church over this? My cousin tells me she has a strong testimony but just cant sit there in church and listen to the people preaching politics instead of gospel. It hurts her. Spiritually and emotionally.

You all remember how long, in the Book of Mormon, people lasted doing good and following church teachings before they became prideful, vain and full of themselves and fell away? hmmm And how old is the church now?

Politics has no place for people of Faith, if members in church are stating opinions then remind them that this is church not a political affair meeting. I'm just going to have to say that liberals are exactly those people who walk away from church because the lack of their faith. We are taught to believe in Jesus Christ above all laws, and politics is one by one deteriorating the very intricate thread of religion. I'm proud to be a member of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-day Saints because I choose to be loyal to my faith in Heavenly Father before a government made by men to rule over men that will diminish by men. A gospel inspired through faith, administered by faith, shall prosper in faith. That same faith will inspire "Zion" and unity in one mind and understanding of righteousness. Those who twist things psychologically and manipulate transient causes into a countries very constitution that was built to safeguard our freedom are unequal. What's more important Education to stimulate minds to create solutions or Sexual Preference Rights? Our politics has become such a social fad that the problem is "We The People". We are suppose to govern our government, but due to the lack of education "Dumbing down America" nobody wanted become problem solvers in the political area, hence why many think the government is illuminati's. Our votes should have supported education and not money making scheme measures, the more I think of politics the more I am encouraged prepare myself to stand in holy places. Politics is like a re-run of "I love lucy" Lucy (the government) thinking of lies to tell Ricardo (the people) just to hear him say "Oh Lucy, no you don't". lol. Anyways, be strong in thy faith because politics doesn't make people spiritually strong the gospel of Jesus Christ does.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm not saying it's not valid, just that hearing politics you disagree with at church would be a pokier burr under the saddle than hearing that with which you're inclined to agree.

I think I could stand to be in a church where I heard a lot of political viewpoints that I disagreed with. The burr would indeed get poky if I repeatedly heard that my political views were evil, antichrist, unbiblical, ungodly, etc. If the message I got over and over was that my politics were questioned with, "How can he believe/vote like that and be a Christian?" by most influential members of my church or ward, I could see eventually questioning whether my spiritual walk was compatible with my church.

Then again, I come from a Protestant tradition. If there was that much disconnect between me and most in my church, I could legitimately find a fellowship that allowed me a greater sense of being in "like precious faith." For LDS, I suppose the experience would become a cross to bear--an unofficial calling of sorts.

[Sali]

Nope, not coincidence- the church does things for very specific reasons. IMPO.

Except the LDS Church is not just an American Church.

[Wingnut]

Nope, not coincidence- the church does things for very specific reasons. IMPO.

That's your opinion -- mine is that it's coincidence.

anne, would you feel the same if you agreed with the politics being discussed? I can't help but think that much of your offense is because you have liberal tendencies.

Not that I think church is the place for political debate. I just think that might be fanning the fire for you.

I could be mistaken, but I think anne leans more conservative. I'm pretty sure that's the case, because she's one that I frequently find myself arguing with. :)

[Vort]

Except the LDS Church is not just an American Church.

I happen to agree that it's probably coincidence, but the fact the Church headquarters is in the US along with the very large plurality of members suggests that US political policy is indeed of vital importance to the Church.

[Misshalfway]

I suppose we could mandate that no one ever dare share any conflicting opinions at church. We could mandate conformity and carry a flag calling it the gospel of Jesus Christ. But this isn't what I think zion is about.

I'd rather see people learn how to offer and receive ideas of all sorts in peace and mutual respect. If someone is campaigning or "judging" someone's point of view, or worse the person, I think we lose the whole spirit of christianity and mormonism.

The higher way is inclusion, peace, and brotherhood. That is what I'd like to see more of at church.

[Sali]

I happen to agree that it's probably coincidence, but the fact the Church headquarters is in the US along with the very large plurality of members suggests that US political policy is indeed of vital importance to the Church.

Interesting that there are more members outside of the US than inside now. I agree with what you are saying, but the evidence is that members outside of the US really don't pay a whole lot of attention to what is going on politically in the US as far as Church is concerned. US politics are just not mentioned in Church. That has been my experience when I was outside the US. Of course, I can't speak for everyone or everywhere.

Our Gospel Doctrine teacher and her husband love to bring up politics in class. Liberals are particularly under fire. I just gather my stuff and walk out if it starts up.

[Misshalfway]

It's not a coincidence that we study the BoM each election year.

Really? Like you really think that the brethren sat down and scheduled those chapters of the BofM because its an election year?

These are really interesting assumptions.

[Sicily510]

I happen to agree that it's probably coincidence, but the fact the Church headquarters is in the US along with the very large plurality of members suggests that US political policy is indeed of vital importance to the Church.

Yes, US political policy is indeed vital importance to the Church, but what happens when that same US political policy is compromised? What happens when the political policy in regards to freedom of religion is reformed limiting the peoples freedom in their faith? The adversary has the US politics all up in a mambo number 5 dance and it's up to "We the people" the democracy to find a common solution. Why is there a far left and a far right? I thought equal is in the middle... I'm glad the Church is neutral in political matters because that's equal, the church cannot support a system that cannot support "We the people". Zion is evolution! Prepare yourselves to stand valiant and live unitedly in righteousness.

[annewandering]

I suppose we could mandate that no one ever dare share any conflicting opinions at church. We could mandate conformity and carry a flag calling it the gospel of Jesus Christ. But this isn't what I think zion is about.

I'd rather see people learn how to offer and receive ideas of all sorts in peace and mutual respect. If someone is campaigning or "judging" someone's point of view, or worse the person, I think we lose the whole spirit of christianity and mormonism.

The higher way is inclusion, peace, and brotherhood. That is what I'd like to see more of at church.

The higher way is to not talk politics, just like we have been told.

[Vort]

Yes, US political policy is indeed vital importance to the Church, but what happens when that same US political policy is compromised?

I was not implying that the Church invests in US policy or hangs on its every nuance. Rather, I was countering the inference I took that US policy is of no concern to the Church, it being above such petty matters.

[annewandering]

anne, would you feel the same if you agreed with the politics being discussed? I can't help but think that much of your offense is because you have liberal tendencies.

Not that I think church is the place for political debate. I just think that might be fanning the fire for you.

thanks a lot for that vote of confidence in my morality and ethics. I am offended greatly that you would even think that. Oh and I dont have liberal tendancies at all. I am liberal. Period.

Edited June 26, 2012 by annewandering

[Misshalfway]

Sorry....just one more thought.

I was just reading an article talking about the LDS churches presence in Washington DC and our long tradition of participation in politics in the US...even when we were targeted for extermination. (IE. Joseph Smith ran for president. Can't imagine that wasn't discussed at church.)

Anyway, the article reminded me about how patriotism runs deep in our blood. We are patriots heart mind and soul. It also reminded me why the church was such a threat in those early days. It was about politics! It certainly wasn't about our underwear.

[Misshalfway]

The higher way is to not talk politics, just like we have been told.

I disagree. I think its not to campaign. I think its not to argue and impose our position on others.

I think the church has to issue statements like this because WE can't be trusted. Not because its rooted in some eternal principle.

[Wingnut]

The higher way is to not talk politics, just like we have been told.

That's not entirely accurate. Here is the Church's political neutrality statement. It reads, in part:

The Church does not:

• Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
• Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
• Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.

The Church does:

• Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
• Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
• Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
• Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.

I agree that politics should stay out of Sunday lessons, except in high-level theoretical or hypothetical contexts. But that's not to say that members of the Church shouldn't discuss politics at all. We are actually encouraged to do that.

Anne, I'm not sure if I'm saying the same thing you are or not. I think politics needs to be kept out of Sunday lessons, but not altogether out of conversations between Church members, in more appropriate fora.