Politics in Church arg

[Guest]

You sure have a knack for finding offense where none is intended. All I was saying is that I think it would be MORE difficult to hear politics at church, where they don't belong, that you DON'T agree with than it would be to hear politics at church, where they don't belong, that you DO agree with. I'm moderate, and some of the farther right-wing stuff that comes up occasionally makes me roll my eyes. Therefore I empathize and see that it must be even more difficult since you disagree with most or all politics that mainstream LDS people tend to espouse.

Cripes.

[annewandering]

I am sorry, Eowyn. For me I dont mind so much but for those afraid to stand up I do mind. They feel like its a warzone sometimes not church.

[Guest]

Church shouldn't feel like that. I'm sorry.

I'm extra grumpy of late, too, and there's more edge to my statements than there ought to be. I apologize.

[annewandering]

I havent been that cheery myself, Eowyn. Maybe we both could use a few smiles. :)

[Hala401]

Not talking about any candidates. On facebook, this morning, my cousin said she is not going to church much anymore. Her grandchild comes home telling her how wonderful certain political people are and how others HAVE to go. He was taught this in primary. Despite what our church leaders have said, members still seem to not get it.

It is driving people out of church. Sure I know it shouldnt but no one likes to keep hearing how their political opinion is evil IN church. My own daughter, not talisyn, told me that you can not be liberal in the church. That it was AGAINST the church.

Why do we insist on this when we are told over and over NO POLITICs in church? How can 'good, believing members think that no politics does not apply to them? It is damaging people.

You probably wouldn't be surprised to know that I am pretty radical to be LDS, and I've gotten in trouble for it. I am not candidate specific, but foreign policy weird.

People are people. I love this church with my heart and soul.

[Hala401]

Church shouldn't feel like that. I'm sorry.

I'm extra grumpy of late, too, and there's more edge to my statements than there ought to be. I apologize.

NO, I've been the grumpy one!

[Misshalfway]

You know...the older I get, the more I realize how the inevitable annoyances at church really don't matter to me so much.

In some ways, I'm glad that church is such a hodge-podge of the awesome and the insane. It really forces me to look at myself and my own unloving reactions.

When I was young, I used to admire those older women who'd learned to be so mellow and unaffected. Maybe we need all these clash points so we can get so beautifully refined. :)

[Echo2002]

Some of the General Authority members are Democrats, so saying supporting that political party is against the Church is just silly.

Of the wards I've been a part of, anyone rarely talks politics. I heard it brought up more in Adult Sunday school class more than anywhere else. That's because we have one guy who can't keep his mouth shut about politics.

[mnn727]

You did have Mosiah 29 and Alma 1-4 2 Sundays ago in Gospel Doctrine class, didn't you? That, my friends, is a political science discussion... the different types of government that the Teacher's Manual suggested the teacher ask the students and how Mosiah's vision of government is applied today... the entire Lesson 21 was all an exercise in political science - God's way.

I was out of town when that lesson was taught, so I get to attend the class instead of doing my Primary Calling. The teacher was super excellent in teaching Lesson 21's views on government in it's application to today's American environment and steering clear from the minefield of this year's specific election issues. The words I heard from the class comments - "gay marriage", "socialism", "corrupt supreme court judges", "racial profiling", among other things. So, yes, I applaud the teacher for staying to the lesson and not engaging in politics. Interestingly, the gospel doctrine teacher is a lawyer!

We were able to have that lesson without any talk of current events. I still maintain that all politics should be off limits. Heck I even hate singing patriotic hymns in Church because that's just not the place for it and during them will sit there with my mouth shut.

[Hala401]

Some of the General Authority members are Democrats, so saying supporting that political party is against the Church is just silly.

Of the wards I've been a part of, anyone rarely talks politics. I heard it brought up more in Adult Sunday school class more than anywhere else. That's because we have one guy who can't keep his mouth shut about politics.

GASP! And yes, there be Republicans there too! Lions and Tigers and Bears! Lions and Tigers and Bears, OH MY!

[Backroads]

I just stand by the old rule of polite conversation: stay away from religion and politics.

'Course, the former in church kind of defeats the purpose of church...

[Hala401]

My politics are so radical, but my sisters and brothers know it, and in the event I bring something unseemly up, a quick look from one of the sisters, or brothers, and it quickly reminds me that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are the center of my life, and it is those things that I should focus on.

Having been Muslim, I have seen the other side of the coin. Still, it is by the love of those around me that I am tamed.

[annewandering]

Brigham Young was so into party politics he got mad when everyone wanted to be in the same party. He threatened to assign wards different parties. In fact he had to do this. Then he said you WILL put up opposing candidates and work at getting them elected. lol he has such a 'love' of politics.

[Traveler]

Those that teach liberals will not make it to heaven - are in my mind very correct but not complete. To be complete in understanding I believe it is necessary to add - conservitives are not going to make it to heaven either.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I always suspected that Traveler was a radical moderate.

[Hala401]

I always suspected that Traveler was a radical moderate.

HMPH, well I am a highly restrained radical!

[annewandering]

I might not be as radical as you Hala but I am a fighting liberal!

[Dravin]

HMPH, well I am a highly restrained radical!

Antioxidants have you down?

[Hala401]

Antioxidants have you down?

No I just haven't quite recovered from living in a culture on the other side of the coin. :)

[Guest]

We were able to have that lesson without any talk of current events. I still maintain that all politics should be off limits. Heck I even hate singing patriotic hymns in Church because that's just not the place for it and during them will sit there with my mouth shut.

Okay, NOW I am 100% sure y'all are using the word "POLITICS" in a really weird manner.

You cannot have Church Sunday Lessons and not talk about Politics. That was a giant part of Jesus' entire ministry. It's a giant part of the Nephi versus Lamanites story. It's a giant part of Church History. So, if you're going to say that "Politics should be off limits" then there is no way you will be able to teach King Benjamin nor King David nor Pontius Pilate or whatever else.

POLITICS -The art or science of running governmental or state affairs, including behavior within civil governments, but also applies to institutions, fields, and special interest groups such as the corporate, academic, and religious segments of society. It consists of "social relations involving authority or power" and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.

THAT is all over our Scriptures! It is impossible to teach Sunday School and avoid any of it!

Now... if you would have said... "Partisan politics should be off limits". Then THAT makes a heckuva lot more sense.

[annewandering]

I seriously believe you do think that, anatess and that is the problem, in my opinion. God is NOT all over politics. He is about us loving Him and loving His children, our siblings. He is NOT about who gets elected, providing they are decent people and dont interfere with His Gospel.

I love King Benjamin. I named a child after him. I do not read about him and what he taught to see what his politics are/were.

[Hala401]

I seriously believe you do think that, anatess and that is the problem, in my opinion. God is NOT all over politics. He is about us loving Him and loving His children, our siblings. He is NOT about who gets elected, providing they are decent people and dont interfere with His Gospel.

I love King Benjamin. I named a child after him. I do not read about him and what he taught to see what his politics are/were.

What? No cries of red neck, terrorist or 1%? Where is the fun in that?

[prisonchaplain]

Anne, Anatess is technically correct. If "politics" is used in its academic sense, then sure, the scriptures are full of descriptions and reflections upon the intersect between power and relationships on a societal level.

On the other hand, she finds it "weird" that most of us (including me) automatically associate "politics" with partisanship. When I read the title of this string, I thought right away that we would be discussing whether it's appropriate to discuss Democratic/Republican candidates and issues in a church context.

[skalenfehl]

Politics has no place for people of Faith, if members in church are stating opinions then remind them that this is church not a political affair meeting. I'm just going to have to say that liberals are exactly those people who walk away from church because the lack of their faith. We are taught to believe in Jesus Christ above all laws, and politics is one by one deteriorating the very intricate thread of religion. I'm proud to be a member of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-day Saints because I choose to be loyal to my faith in Heavenly Father before a government made by men to rule over men that will diminish by men. A gospel inspired through faith, administered by faith, shall prosper in faith. That same faith will inspire "Zion" and unity in one mind and understanding of righteousness. Those who twist things psychologically and manipulate transient causes into a countries very constitution that was built to safeguard our freedom are unequal. What's more important Education to stimulate minds to create solutions or Sexual Preference Rights? Our politics has become such a social fad that the problem is "We The People". We are suppose to govern our government, but due to the lack of education "Dumbing down America" nobody wanted become problem solvers in the political area, hence why many think the government is illuminati's. Our votes should have supported education and not money making scheme measures, the more I think of politics the more I am encouraged prepare myself to stand in holy places. Politics is like a re-run of "I love lucy" Lucy (the government) thinking of lies to tell Ricardo (the people) just to hear him say "Oh Lucy, no you don't". lol. Anyways, be strong in thy faith because politics doesn't make people spiritually strong the gospel of Jesus Christ does.

This is the time when we as LDS should be valiant and stalwart in upholding the US Constitution. All that evil requires to flourish is for good men to do nothing. David O. McKay said:

"Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States! May the appeal of our Lord in His intercessory prayer for unity be realized in our homes, our wards, and stakes, and in our support of the basic principles of our Republic."

Politics ought to have a very big place within each of us. The Lord said, “Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land” (D&C 98:6).

In General Conference, our prophet, Ezra Taft Benson said (this is only a small part) the following:

How then can we best befriend the Constitution in this critical hour and secure the blessings of liberty and ensure the protection and guidance of our Father in Heaven?

First and foremost, we must be righteous.

John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (The Works of John Adams, ed. C. F. Adams, Boston: Little, Brown Co., 1851, 4:31). If the Constitution is to have continuance, this American nation, and especially the Latter-day Saints, must be virtuous.

The Book of Mormon warns us relative to our living in this free land: “Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity; if so, it shall be because of iniquity; for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever” (2 Ne. 1:7).

“And now,” warned Moroni, “we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity” (Ether 2:9).

Two great American Christian civilizations—the Jaredites and the Nephites—were swept off this land because they did not “serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12). What will become of our civilization?

Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.

Have we read The Federalist papers? Are we reading the Constitution and pondering it? Are we aware of its principles? Are we abiding by these principles and teaching them to others? Could we defend the Constitution? Can we recognize when a law is constitutionally unsound? Do we know what the prophets have said about the Constitution and the threats to it?

As Jefferson said, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free … it expects what never was and never will be” (Letter to Colonel Charles Yancey, 6 Jan. 1816).

Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented.

The Lord said that “he holds men accountable for their acts in relation” to governments “both in making laws and administering them” (D&C 134:1). We must follow this counsel from the Lord: “Honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil” (D&C 98:10).

Note the qualities that the Lord demands of those who are to represent us. They must be good, wise, and honest.

Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice.

We must become accurately informed and then let others know how we feel. The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “It is our duty to concentrate all our influence to make popular that which is sound and good, and unpopular that which is unsound. ‘Tis right, politically, for a man who has influence to use it. … From henceforth I will maintain all the influence I can get” (History of the Church, 5:286).

Without politics, without making a stand, we may be strong in our faith for a time, but it won't last long if we allow our right and our freedom to worship according our faith be denied and destroyed. And our children will suffer for it and their children will suffer for it.

[mnn727]

Skalenfehl

if we really wanted to protect the Constitution then we should dump both major parties as their actions speak much louder than their words on the subject.