War in Heaven

[Scovy]

So I was thinking about this subject a little more and remembering a lot of false doctrine related to it, angels fighting with swords and spears, people seeing visions of these. I was wondering if anyone had some insight on the war in heaven was it with testimonies that drove Satan and the 1/3 that chose to follow them out of Heaven or by other means.

I know this is one of the mysteries of God questions but any insight into it would be great.

[mikbone]

So I was thinking about this subject a little more and remembering a lot of false doctrine related to it, angels fighting with swords and spears, people seeing visions of these. I was wondering if anyone had some insight on the war in heaven was it with testimonies that drove Satan and the 1/3 that chose to follow them out of Heaven or by other means.

I know this is one of the mysteries of God questions but any insight into it would be great.

Revelations 12:11 and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Alma 43 & 44 can be read allegorically to give insight to the war in heaven:

Moroni = Michael the Archangel

Zerahemnah = Lucifer

Alma 43:45 Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

[Convert55]

The concept of the "war in heaven," generally comes from a smattering of scriptures throughout the standard works. They speak of a conflict that in the LDS view took place in the premortal life. Some religions don’t believe in a premortal life and some believe that because it is spoken of in the Book of Revelations that it hasn’t happened yet; that it will happen at some future point. The LDS view (in my opinion) is that the war began in the pre-existence when Lucifer, in a rebellion against God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ, sought to usurp God’s power and authority.

See:

Isaiah 14:12-15*

Revelation 12:4-11*

Luke 10:17-18*

These scriptures are like a few photons of light. They give us a silhouette of what happened but not a lot of detail.

We have a few additional photons of light given in latter-day scripture:

Abraham 3:27-28*

Doctrine and Covenants 76:25-27*

Moses 4:1-4*

The above is not a complete list of scriptures but there is a lot to chew on.

[Traveler]

The word war is a symbolic term that represents the means and effort to bring to a conflict all that is possible in order support one side in the conflict. Because in mortality the ultimate threat is pain and suffering unto death we realize that war means to bring to the pain and suffering of death to the conflict. For immortal beings that are not subject to the pain suffering of death - death is not hardly any threat at all.

The term of threat in the great war of heaven is given to us (LDS) is in the word "Agency". For many agency has come to mean choice but I have attempted to express that agency goes far beyond choice and that in the war in heaven, in order to preserve agency for man - that by covenant and law, G-d through Jesus, became libel for all man's sins in mortality because of the fall.

I am not sure that many understand the "condensation" and sacrifice of Jesus in agreeing to be libel and the advantage that sacrifice gave Lucifer in the conflict.

Perhaps the greatest misunderstandings in the conflict or war of heaven is understanding our part and in what way and by what means we contribute to the advantage of G-d and his laws and covenants or to contribute to Satan and his advantage to bring spiritual death and destroy our agency (liberty - freedom).

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think it should be called the war in heaven and earth - and think that the same war started long ago still rages within the world today. Sin - anything that takes away agency, vs. Freedom. The war takes on many different forms, for some it involves fighting with guns against tyrannical oppressive governments who strive to remove freedoms, for others the war takes on personal battles of health, or employment, or relationships etc. etc. It all seems to be just one long war imo.

Or the war of the Spirit and the Flesh. The physical nature of our current war is as a result of our physicality which is different than our previous state of spirit being. Now we are dual beings of both physical corrupted nature and hidden underneath is our pure spirit self. The war we face now is internal, not so external. The thing that limits freedom the most is giving in to our physical corrupted nature of the body. If we learn to love it's passions over spiritual ones then the battle is lost. This is a unique battle to this life, one that we will not have to face ever again .... 'come unto my rest' when the battle is over. With a perfected body the conflict will be over, until then the soldiers of the army of God fight against carnality. All of the "tyrannical oppressive governments", any of the drive to restrict freedom is as a result of having a fallen body down to the drive to eat food on fast Sunday or fall asleep during prayer as the apostles did. Even Jesus was tempted via carnal drives by Satan at the end of His 40 day fast. The battle will be won when our carnal natures are overcome.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Seminarysnoozer

[Bensalem]

So I was thinking about this subject a little more and remembering a lot of false doctrine related to it, angels fighting with swords and spears, people seeing visions of these. I was wondering if anyone had some insight on the war in heaven was it with testimonies that drove Satan and the 1/3 that chose to follow them out of Heaven or by other means.

I know this is one of the mysteries of God questions but any insight into it would be great.

Yes, I have some insight on the matter. Lucifer and his third knew themselves well and were very aware that they would fail on earth. So did the remaining two thirds of us, except we had faith in our brother Jesus to accomplish the atonement. Pride was Lucifer's first flaw; lack of faith was his second.

[apricots]

So I was thinking about this subject a little more and remembering a lot of false doctrine related to it, angels fighting with swords and spears, people seeing visions of these. I was wondering if anyone had some insight on the war in heaven was it with testimonies that drove Satan and the 1/3 that chose to follow them out of Heaven or by other means.

I know this is one of the mysteries of God questions but any insight into it would be great.

I was asked this question at institute the other day. I replied "The war in heaven is exactly like the war on Earth. In fact, the war on Earth is simply a battle of the war in heaven"

May sound a little convoluted, but I do not believe that physical violence was very effective when you're talking about beings who receive no pain, and do not waste. The war was also not God Vs. Satan battling it out through reading books and yelling at one another like in a court room. The war was/is us (being the Mormons) teaching and spreading the gospel to others who are otherwise uneducated about it. Our missionaries are our soldiers. The casualties are the convertees (either way you go). And the church is our motherland. We are not worriers, we are not battlers, we are saviors, or "saints". The Latter-Day Saints.

And that's my stupid 18 year old outlook on that matter.

[Heber13]

It helps to shed light on what the war in heaven was like, when you realize it did not end in heaven...but according to our prophet, continues today.

there is another war that has gone on since before the world was created and that is likely to continue for a long time. It is a war that reaches beyond questions of territory or national sovereignty. John the Revelator speaks of that struggle:

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

“And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him” (Revelation 12:7–9).

The Continuing Struggle

That war, so bitter, so intense, has never ceased. It is the war between truth and error, between agency and compulsion, between the followers of Christ and those who have denied Him. His enemies have used every stratagem in that conflict. They’ve indulged in lying and deceit. They’ve employed money and wealth. They’ve tricked the minds of men. They’ve murdered and destroyed and engaged in every kind of evil practice to thwart the work of Christ.

Gordon B Hinckley, Ensign, June 2007

I think it does include swords and murder, but goes beyond that as well. We are living amid the war still. We saw it played out in Aurora Colorado last week, but we also see it every day.

The 1/3 hosts were cast out of heaven...only to continue the war here and now. We must have the armor of God and we must keep our homes safe and train our children to prepare to fight for what is right.

[Seminarysnoozer]

So I was thinking about this subject a little more and remembering a lot of false doctrine related to it, angels fighting with swords and spears, people seeing visions of these. I was wondering if anyone had some insight on the war in heaven was it with testimonies that drove Satan and the 1/3 that chose to follow them out of Heaven or by other means.

I know this is one of the mysteries of God questions but any insight into it would be great.

Visions can be metaphoric, they don't have to be actual.

[reflexzero]

Well, kind of a moot issue, as immortal spirits cannot be killed, there probably wasn't conflict in the romantic way we like to think about it.