How do you keep from being overcome with the wickedness of the world?

[Backroads]

Please, children. Don't fight.

As anyone knows, any festivity containing a significant Mormon population will by nature include ice cream, jello, potato salad, and funeral potatoes. Plus the frog-eye fruit salad.

[RMGuy]

I guess I see the world as a fundamentally positive place. I think that people are generally good, whether members or not. Perhaps that means I am naive of view the world through rose colored glasses. I wasn't always that way. However, in recent years I have had some experiences that have lead me to understand that the world is not black and white. It is not binary or digital, but very very analog, with lots of shades of grey. I've learned to love different perspectives, and I've come to understand that there is some evil in the world and we have to be aware and guard against it. Much of what we might see as evil or bad, is simply chance, happenstance, misunderstanding, or viewed that way because of our perspective. And there is good. An amazing amount of good, in people and in the world.

-RM

[BrendaM]

Ditto to all you stated Andenex! Vort this is a great question. I know that the world will get worse, I fret for my 21 yr old daughter. She has chosen a less-active lifestyle. As a single mom (raised her from birth by myself), I tried my very best to teach her the proper principles.

When I feel myself focusing on the evils of the world, I try to remember that there is so much good. That Heavenly Father will never abandon me. And though I might feel at the depths of darkness many times, I am lifted up through my testimony and know that this is but a moment. It's darn hard sometimes, that's for certain; but I refuse to let that darkness overwhelm me!

People at work make comments, in the guise of "good natured fun". For the most part I let it slide off my back, but find it contradictory that they can "fun" with the Mormon girl but not with the Jewish, Muslim or Evangelical. I look at it as an opportunity to set their stupid comments strait, but find it interesting that they feel that they can do this. I know that it's probably because they know I can "take" it, but still...

I also have hope because our stake just got reconfigured (right term?) and a new stake was created with a new ward within that stake. That shows me that there are people out there looking for the truth, even in these times.

I think I'm a pessimist at heart, but strive to be optimistic. Doesn't make sense to me, but there you go. I had a Bishop once who said I was an enigma. I took that as a compliment! LOL

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I guess I see the world as a fundamentally positive place. I think that people are generally good, whether members or not.

RMGuy, my comment is not really directed at you, I'm just quoting you because what you wrote reminded me of something (perhaps tangential :))

When we think of Anne Frank, there is generally emphasis on how she said at near the end of her diary that she still believed there was some good in all people. I always thought that was inspiring UNTIL I watched a movie about her experience in the concentration camp.

Watching that movie, it occured to me that even though being a "prisoner" in that attic hiding must have been awful, it did not compare to the horror of the concentration camps. As I watched the movie and imagined their suffering, I wondered if Anne ever changed her mind about there being some good in all people.

I think this relates to this thread because it seems like, how much wickedness one sees in the world is infulenced by their own experiences. ; I am aware that I see the world through dark glasses, and that people who have not experienced trauma will likely see it through more rose-colored glasses. My children use rose-colored glasses. They think the world is basically a safe place where they can have dreams and work toward them. I have worked really hard (with my husband) to allow them to feel that, and yet I don't believe it myself. Strange irony there. I see evil around every corner...but hey, I'm working on it (lots of therapy helps).

Just pondering...

Edited September 19, 2012 by LiterateParakeet

[Backroads]

People at work make comments, in the guise of "good natured fun". For the most part I let it slide off my back, but find it contradictory that they can "fun" with the Mormon girl but not with the Jewish, Muslim or Evangelical. I look at it as an opportunity to set their stupid comments strait, but find it interesting that they feel that they can do this. I know that it's probably because they know I can "take" it, but still...

I think that many people who will tease and joke really mean no serious offense, but I don't think Mormonism has reached the same "taboo" area as other faiths.

[C_T_R]

Lots of reasons for pessimism and despair:

• Mormons are openly mocked and hated. People openly and unashamedly wish ill upon us.
• The wicked tell transparent lies. The consequence of their lies is that they are elected to office.
• When the innocent are attacked, whether at a football game or at an embassy, the majority cowards quickly proclaim, "There is plenty of blame to go around! BOTH sides are guilty!"
• Do not bother trying to explain either your beliefs or your viewpoint. To be blunt, most people are too stupid to understand what you're saying, and those who are not too stupid are generally too bigoted and hateful. You are spitting into the wind.

Yet we are told, even commanded, not to despair, but to be hopeful. Given the state of things presently and the likelihood that things will only get worse, how do you personally retain your hope in the face of such overwhelming evil?

For these very same reasons I'd say there are lots of reasons for hope and happiness!

Mormons are openly mocked and hated? Well that seems pretty antiquated nowdays. But every religion deals with haters. It's true Mormons seem to get it more openly.. but THAT is a good sign! lol Look at what the world embraces! Look at what it shuns! It confirms, if I needed any more, that I'm on the right track.

The wicked tell transparent lies, and get elected. Exactly. Look again at what the world embraces and elects into office. It's a sign of the times.. and it shows those with eyes to see and ears to hear how temporary this life is.. Thank God this isn't it! THAT would be reason for despair and pessimism indeed!!

When the innocent are attacked, and then blamed.. mm that's a fun one (not). People just want to justify themselves. This is as old as man. Perps don't want to take blame.. they certainly don't want to be shown they were in the wrong.. ESPECIALLY to someone that was, indeed, innocent. Doesn't rub the natural man the right way, and they'll fight it to the grave -- some of them.

People aren't too stupid.. I really don't think there are that many people out there that are as stupid as they... act. It's just that they don't care. They want to go with the flow; the sheep. Another big part is laziness. They don't want to think for themselves.. and if they did? They'd have to go against the grain and get hated on as that is what the world does to everything that is good and sacred. Much easier to just tune out. People that are bigoted and hateful? Fall into the same category as the others. They don't want to hear they're wrong, they don't want to be OPEN to hearing another's views.. I mean really open.. what if they were wrong? What if it was true and they had to change some things in their lives that they don't want to give up? Nah, much better to throw up hate and anger when someone calmly states their beliefs. Then they can just write them off as stupid and won't have to deal with their consciences.

The righteous need not fear. The evil is going to get worse, but that means goodness will increase also.. whether we see and experience it or not. And it's a sign that Israel will shortly be free. I believe that with all that I am. I know it. This is how it's supposed to be going down.. and while Satan and the evil in the world can look intimdating.. they're not. It's all just.. nothing. Nothing to be afraid of.. and SO much to look forward to. SO much to enjoy right now, in this moment. Look at what's right in the world. Look at what's right in your life. Look at the reality on both ends of the spectrum, and realize that evil never has, and never will prevail.. unless on a very personal and individual level you allow it to through your actions.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Lots of reasons for pessimism and despair:

• Mormons are openly mocked and hated. People openly and unashamedly wish ill upon us.
• The wicked tell transparent lies. The consequence of their lies is that they are elected to office.
• When the innocent are attacked, whether at a football game or at an embassy, the majority cowards quickly proclaim, "There is plenty of blame to go around! BOTH sides are guilty!"
• Do not bother trying to explain either your beliefs or your viewpoint. To be blunt, most people are too stupid to understand what you're saying, and those who are not too stupid are generally too bigoted and hateful. You are spitting into the wind.

Yet we are told, even commanded, not to despair, but to be hopeful. Given the state of things presently and the likelihood that things will only get worse, how do you personally retain your hope in the face of such overwhelming evil?

I remember the fact that all these spirits chose to follow God in the pre-mortal life, they kept their first estate. They are our same brothers and sisters who chose correctly as that is what is really in their heart. They have, for many possible reasons, either forgotten their true desire or have not listened to that side of their dual being and ignore the promptings of the light of Christ within them. That doesn't change the fact that they will be glorified beings in the end. The question is for us, how do we treat future glorified beings? .... with love.

[fuse]

You see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness. I'm a more positive person, so I look for the good in the world, and guess what- I find it! My advice is to do some introspection and see about changing your attitude to a more positive one. Don't listen to negatrons who say things like "the world is wicked" and "the world is getting more and more wicked." The world is getting better and better; we're learning from our past and improving things all the time. The world is wonderful, open your eyes and see it!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness. I'm a more positive person, so I look for the good in the world, and guess what- I find it! My advice is to do some introspection and see about changing your attitude to a more positive one. Don't listen to negatrons who say things like "the world is wicked" and "the world is getting more and more wicked." The world is getting better and better; we're learning from our past and improving things all the time. The world is wonderful, open your eyes and see it!

I commend you for your positive attitude. I agree that does help.

However, and this is a big however, I disagree that "you see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness" that is a vastly oversimplified view of the world. Sometimes the wickedness of the world is thrust before you. For example Alma and Amulek were not looking for wickedness when the people of Ammonihah...men, women and children...were thrown into the fire.

Joseph Smith did not look for wickedness in the world, it came and pounded on his door.

If your life has not been touched by the evil and wickeness that is out there, then by all means be grateful and positive, but don't assume that those of us who are nearly overwhelmed by wickedness (that would be me) were looking for it. I assure you that is not the case. Pain is real and unfortunately it is part of this earth life. We were sent here to be tested, remember.s

[Vort]

You see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness. I'm a more positive person

Ah, yes. The wonderful, positive person who just can't abide the LDS Church or any of its members who might like what they're used to better than what they are not used to.

You are just a beacon of positivity, fuse.

[Vort]

Banned after eight posts? EIGHT?! That may not be a record, but I bet it makes the top ten.

[Anddenex]

You see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness. I'm a more positive person, so I look for the good in the world, and guess what- I find it! My advice is to do some introspection and see about changing your attitude to a more positive one. Don't listen to negatrons who say things like "the world is wicked" and "the world is getting more and more wicked." The world is getting better and better; we're learning from our past and improving things all the time. The world is wonderful, open your eyes and see it!

Hmm...so what you are saying is don't listen to people who speak a TRUTH about life and the world?

I am sure, while Peter was being hung upside down on the cross, he was thinking, "I am only experiencing this wickedness because I was looking for this wickedness."

When you read on the news about someone being killed, raped, or beaten, yes, from now on I will take your counsel, "It is because they were looking for wickedness that wickedness happened upon them."

Your language reminds me of Pauls words, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

It appears from your language, you may well be still "speak[ing] as a child." As for me, however, I will pay attention to the warnings from well seasoned men/women who help guide people, without being naive.

[applepansy]

I will pay attention to the warnings from well seasoned men/women who help guide people, without being naive.

The Watchmen on the Tower.

[Seminarysnoozer]

You see wickedness in the world because you're looking for wickedness. I'm a more positive person, so I look for the good in the world, and guess what- I find it! My advice is to do some introspection and see about changing your attitude to a more positive one. Don't listen to negatrons who say things like "the world is wicked" and "the world is getting more and more wicked." The world is getting better and better; we're learning from our past and improving things all the time. The world is wonderful, open your eyes and see it!

All is well in Zion!

2 Nephi 28:21 "And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."

[MorningStar]

Sometimes I just have to take a break from the news. That helps. :)

[RMGuy]

All is well in Zion!

2 Nephi 28:21 "And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."

It sounds like you live in a scary place. I live in a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for me, with wonderful brothers and sisters, members and non-members alike that were valiant in the pre-existance. It is too bad you haven't had the same experience, or unable or unwilling to see some of that good too.

-RM

[Anddenex]

It sounds like you live in a scary place. I live in a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for me, with wonderful brothers and sisters, members and non-members alike that were valiant in the pre-existance. It is too bad you haven't had the same experience, or unable or unwilling to see some of that good too.

-RM

Hmm...besides fuse comment RMGuy, this is one of the most self-righteous statements I have read on LDS.net.

In no way was Seminarysnoozer even implying she hasn't experienced good and faithful members and non-members alike.

In no way was Seminarysnoozer mentioning this isn't a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for us.

She simply pointed out the delusion fuse represented with factual scripture, instead of living with a naive frame of reference that you only see evil because you look for it.

EDIT: Not trying to be rude RMGuy, I have appreciated many of your comments, however, I wonder if you have even reread your condescending concluding sentence toward Seminarysnoozer:

It is too bad you haven't had the same experience, or unable or unwilling to see some of that good too.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Anddenex

[RMGuy]

Well I would hate for anyone to rush to judgement, so I can make it easy by admitting that not only am I self-righteous, but also egotistical and arrogant too :-)

-RM

[Echo2002]

I try to only concern myself with what I have control over.

[Seminarysnoozer]

It sounds like you live in a scary place. I live in a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for me, with wonderful brothers and sisters, members and non-members alike that were valiant in the pre-existance. It is too bad you haven't had the same experience, or unable or unwilling to see some of that good too.

-RM

Read my post #32 please.

If you read carefully, I already posted the same thing you are saying here ... beat you to the punch.

Just because Satan's ways are more and more subtle and accepted in the world doesn't mean that they are not just as deadly or even more so. I think we have to be on the guard even more than before as Satan is pushing with everything available to pull away all of these previously valiant souls we are both speaking about. We want them to stay that way, clean and pure as they were when entering into this world. I see the good and therefore want to keep it that way and magnify it. The opening post question was how do we keep from being overcome with the wickedness of the world? It was not how do we ignore the wickedness of the world?

The difficulty we face is that we are told to live IN the world even though we don't want to be OF the world. Our religion does not tell us to go hide out in some isolated monastery in a remote mountain or avoid the potential dangers of divorce by not even getting married in the first place. However, the spirit does not abide in certain places and we cannot receive the guidance of the spirit of the Lord without maintaining a certain level of purity. So, we invite the sinner to our home and our church to where the spirit is present. If one doesn't understand the power of the spirit and how it is invited then I suppose the wickedness of the world could be ignored. But, we know differently, we know the power of the spirit is in part dependent on removing wicked influences and inviting the spirit through righteous living and avoiding situations and people in which the spirit cannot maintain its presence.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

It sounds like you live in a scary place. I live in a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for me, with wonderful brothers and sisters, members and non-members alike that were valiant in the pre-existance. It is too bad you haven't had the same experience, or unable or unwilling to see some of that good too.

-RM

RM, you are fortunate to be one of what I call "happy people". How nice for all of you. Born to parents that loved and cherished you. People that support you in reaching for your dreams. How nice.

Some of us are not so blessed. Some of us are born to parents who abuse us, and find very little support in life. Goals and dreams sound like something very nice...for other people... still we have to hold on and find some how continue to believe in God and believe that there is good in the world. It is not that I am unwilling...it's just hard, and yet I am struggling to hold on. I know that is hard for "happy people" to understand sometimes. I'm glad you haven't experienced the pain that some of us do, but have a little compassion for those of us "chosen" to have a different kind of earth life experience.

Yes, I've had a craptastic day.

[JudoMinja]

When I think of having hope amidst trials, I think of the necessity for action. Faith is described as the "hope for things which are not seen which are true". Certainly, the goodness of the gospel is something we cannot see in a world so rife with wickedness. But I believe the gospel to be true- I have hope for the future. This faith would fade, though, if I did not act on it. There's the parable of the two farmers struck with drought. Both of them prayed for rain, but only one of them went out to plant his fields. That farmer had faith, because he was trusting that the Lord would answer his prayers with rain, and he'd better have his fields prepared when it came.

To maintain hope in hard times, we must prepare. But how? What do I do to exercise my faith and prepare for those things we know are to come- "which are not seen which are true"? I prayerfully study my scriptures. I strive to be the best example I can be to my son and teach him the basic principles of the gospel. I set goals for myself and constantly seek ways I can improve. I hold true to the standards I believe in and set strict rules for myself to help me avoid my weaknesses.

While I cannot make decisions for the other people in the world, I can make decisions for myself, and I can utilize those decisions to have a positive influence on those around me. Every little bit counts, and sometimes- just sometimes- the strength of one person's example can have an overreaching ripple effect. Whether or not I influence many people, I know that at the very least, I can influence my son and my closest friends, family, and coworkers.

[jzorider]

I had to sign up just to post to this thread. If there is one issue that will cause me to lose my faith, it might be this one. I DO think that my fellow LDS focus too much on the "wickedness of the world" and wallow on all of the doom and gloom, and fretting about how Satan is just around every corner. A couple of people suggest maybe the problem is not "wickedness," but our own individual attitudes, and they get all jumped on. The way I see it: God created all of us, and he created us out of love. He didn't create us out of love, only to turn around and feel disgust over 99% of us. THE WORLD IS NOT WICKED! I've lived across the world, and met people from many different cultures. One thing I learned is that we are all the same! Our languages and customs may be different, but deep down we all care for our families, we want to improve the world, we have fun being with loved ones, etc. The world is not getting worse, either. Just ask people of color, people with disabilities, etc. We've made great advancements in the way we treat others, and doesn't that carry more weight than casual swearing on tv? People notice how many more stories they see about rape and murder, etc, and conclude that it's on the rise. Did you stop to think that maybe you hear more about these stories because there are hundreds more media outlets than there used to be? More things are noticed and reported on than in times past? And before anyone jumps on me like they did the others, be careful before you pass judgment. I grew up in pure turmoil and chaos. My father spend my childhood in prison, and my mother died when I was 11. However, I, like the posters before, CHOOSE to FOCUS on the good in the world, instead of harping on the "wickedness" of it. I joined this church in my 20s because I felt the warmth and love within it, but now in these times (especially with politics), I feel like I joined a tribalistic, bunker-mentality fringe group. Members are running around predicting a zombie apocalypse if a certain person wins the presidency. It's so disconcerting! Yes, I choose to see the world as a wonderful place, but not because I've had a privileged life, but because that is my disposition. I wish our church would harvest that quality in others, too.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I had to sign up just to post to this thread. If there is one issue that will cause me to lose my faith, it might be this one. I DO think that my fellow LDS focus too much on the "wickedness of the world" and wallow on all of the doom and gloom, and fretting about how Satan is just around every corner. A couple of people suggest maybe the problem is not "wickedness," but our own individual attitudes, and they get all jumped on. The way I see it: God created all of us, and he created us out of love. He didn't create us out of love, only to turn around and feel disgust over 99% of us. THE WORLD IS NOT WICKED! I've lived across the world, and met people from many different cultures. One thing I learned is that we are all the same! Our languages and customs may be different, but deep down we all care for our families, we want to improve the world, we have fun being with loved ones, etc. The world is not getting worse, either. Just ask people of color, people with disabilities, etc. We've made great advancements in the way we treat others, and doesn't that carry more weight than casual swearing on tv? People notice how many more stories they see about rape and murder, etc, and conclude that it's on the rise. Did you stop to think that maybe you hear more about these stories because there are hundreds more media outlets than there used to be? More things are noticed and reported on than in times past? And before anyone jumps on me like they did the others, be careful before you pass judgment. I grew up in pure turmoil and chaos. My father spend my childhood in prison, and my mother died when I was 11. However, I, like the posters before, CHOOSE to FOCUS on the good in the world, instead of harping on the "wickedness" of it. I joined this church in my 20s because I felt the warmth and love within it, but now in these times (especially with politics), I feel like I joined a tribalistic, bunker-mentality fringe group. Members are running around predicting a zombie apocalypse if a certain person wins the presidency. It's so disconcerting! Yes, I choose to see the world as a wonderful place, but not because I've had a privileged life, but because that is my disposition. I wish our church would harvest that quality in others, too.

If the world is not wicked then there is no need for a Savior. That is exactly what Satan wants us to believe. Thee is a difference between having a focus on good versus ignoring the need for a Savior. I agree with focusing on the good as I believe most LDS do as that is one of our articles of faith to do that thing, the admonition of Paul but we also believe that a Savior is necessary and can appreciate exactly what He has done for us. If the world is not wicked then Christ did nothing for the world. We believe in the admonition of Paul which is the same King Benjamin spoke of as well as Joseph Smith.

"We are all enlisted till the conflict is or' Happy are we!!!! Happy are we!!!!" "Glad to join the army, we shall gain the victory by and by, Dangers may gather why should we fear?" "We shall in win and wear it by and by"

"Loving hearts are happy, while we work and play. God is the heaven, Joyous is our day!"

"Come come ye saints, no toil or labor fear, but with JOY wend your way!!!"

Mormon 9:14; " 14 And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still."

The trick is to live in the world without being of the world. I can be happy while in the world without having to say that the world is a happy place (in general). Separating oneself from the world is the process of happiness. Being married to the world and calling it something it isn't is not happiness.