What have I done?

[autumnleaves]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums. I'm a 22 year-old, single woman, attending college in the Midwest.

My question is this: I have had premarital sex with a nonmember who is in an unhappy marriage in which his wife has been unfaithful. Have I committed adultery or fornication?

Autumnleaves

[Vort]

Not sure what difference it makes what it's called. But for what it's worth, I would say sleeping with a married man is adultery for both parties (assuming you're not the one he's married to).

[skippy740]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums. I'm a 22 year-old, single woman, attending college in the Midwest.

My question is this: I have had premarital sex with a nonmember who is in an unhappy marriage in which his wife has been unfaithful. Have I committed adultery or fornication?

Autumnleaves

We need to rephrase your question to give yourself clarity:

"I have had sex with a man who is married to someone else. Have I committed a sexual sin?"

The answer is yes.

However, the way you are phrasing your original question sounds like you want to justify it that:

1) It's "pre-marital" - in that I want to marry this person.

2) Well, his wife cheated on him first, so it's okay, right? After all, it's "an eye for an eye", right?

3) He's a non-member who did not help you to honor your covenants. Is this the foundation of a marriage you really want?

Sometimes we need others to listen to ourselves and then repeat back what we just said.

[autumnleaves]

I don't want to marry him. I used the word premarital in the sense that I had sex before I was married, not in the sense that I expect to marry him. It seems as though I'm being told that it really doesn't matter whether or not it's classified as fornication or adultery, but I disagree. The question wasn't if there is a difference or whether or not it makes a difference, but which I have committed.

[skippy740]

What is this... a test?

Let me google that for you

Fornication is between two unmarried persons.

Let me google that for you

Adultery is between a married person and someone other than their lawful spouse.

Edited September 23, 2012 by skippy740

[autumnleaves]

No, it's a post in an advice forum. It seems as though I'm getting responses that have little to do with the question I posed, so I clarified.

[skippy740]

Typically, questions in the advice forum are about asking for ideas and direction... not a vocabulary test.

Now, getting back to your actual question: how can we help you?

[Guest]

Technically you had extramarital sex, not premarital if you have no desire or intention to marry.

Either way, you've sinned and need to talk to the bishop. Our opinions on what your sin should be called are irrelevant.

[Vort]

I don't want to marry him. I used the word premarital in the sense that I had sex before I was married, not in the sense that I expect to marry him. It seems as though I'm being told that it really doesn't matter whether or not it's classified as fornication or adultery, but I disagree. The question wasn't if there is a difference or whether or not it makes a difference, but which I have committed.

Your sexual sin is the same, no matter what you call it. Not sure why the label of the sin is of particular importance to you.

By definition, any sexual relations outside of marriage is "fornication", so obviously you have committed fornication. You have had sex with a married man. I call this "adultery". Many others would, too. Some would argue that your sex partner committed adultery, but that you did not, since you were not the married person. I disagree.

But, as Shakespeare pointed out, a rose by any other name smells as sweet. and a thorn by any other name cuts as deep. How someone chooses to name or classify your sin does not really mean very much; the sin does not change, and the stain is the same however you call it.

[MorningStar]

I don't get it. Are you trying to decide between a scarlet A or F?

[JosephP]

I'm sorry that some of the responses you've received thus far have been less than charitable. I know you are aware that you have committed a serious sin. By my definition you have committed adultery because you have broken someone else's marriage covenant. The opinion that matters now is that of your bishop. I'd hope you feel a strong desire to see him soon, so you can begin to put this behind you.

There is only one lesson you need to learn from this experience once you have repented, and that is the lesson the Savior said to the women in your same situation; "Go, and sin no more"

May you find true repentance through counseling with your bishop. And may the lesson you learn carry you through a lifetime of determination to honor you covenants. I wish you every success.

[applepansy]

Its been said already.

You have been given the right advice. Go see your Bishop. Sooner rather than later.

[Backroads]

Both.

Not a good place to be, being the other woman.

I hope you're able to work past this. I also suggest breaking off ties with this man, if you haven't already.

[prisonchaplain]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums. I'm a 22 year-old, single woman, attending college in the Midwest.

My question is this: I have had premarital sex with a nonmember who is in an unhappy marriage in which his wife has been unfaithful. Have I committed adultery or fornication?

Autumnleaves

I believe I know why this may be an issue--why it would be important to distinguish between fornication and adultery. Many people of sincere religious conviction believe that when there is unfaithfulness in a marriage, and the result is divorce, that the innocent partner is free to remarry. On the other hand, the offending adulterer should not remarry, as it would compound the sin of adultery.

So, what of the young, unmarried offender? Is she a fornicator, who can repent, and eventually marry? Or, is she an adulterer, who should really become celibate, as a casualty of her sin?

It would seem to me that since these discussions usually surround the idea of "divorce and remarriage," that the sin committed by the OP is fornication, and not adultery. Since she was never married, she is not "divorcing and remarrying."

I could be raising a non-issue...but this line of thinking could make the matter of whether it's fornication or adulterer quite significant.

[autumnleaves]

I appreciate everyone's responses and a few peoples' compassion. I am aware of what I've done. It has not affected my intelligence, only my spirit. Thank you all for responding.

[Guest]

I thought the thread title was a "What have I done?" as in, I can't believe I just did what I did... You know, the exact same thing Anakin Skywalker said after his actions led to Palpatine killing Mace Windu...

It kinda seemed wierd that the question on the advice forum surrounding a grievous sin is how one would call it.

So, just to satisfy my curiosity (I don't buy PC's explanation because that logic is not present in mainstream LDS), if I might ask, autumnleaves, what's your reason for posting the question?

[autumnleaves]

I had more questions that I wanted to ask after this one, but I don't really want to anymore. The responses I've gotten have been largely curt and cold. I don't expect anyone to empathize, but I did expect some compassion. My mistake. In other words, in response to your curiosity about this being the one question that I would ask about my transgression, this is just the first question in a series that I wanted others' insight on. You're correct about the meaning of the thread title.

[Vort]

I apologize if my answers were perceived as curt or cold. I was aiming for factual, not unfriendly.

[autumnleaves]

Thank you, Vort.

[Leah]

I had more questions that I wanted to ask after this one, but I don't really want to anymore. The responses I've gotten have been largely curt and cold. I don't expect anyone to empathize, but I did expect some compassion. My mistake. In other words, in response to your curiosity about this being the one question that I would ask about my transgression, this is just the first question in a series that I wanted others' insight on. You're correct about the meaning of the thread title.

But that doesn't answer Anatess' question about why you wanted to define what you did as either adultery or fornication. Were you thinking that one came with less consequences than the other? I can understand that people find it perplexing that you feel a need to define it as one or the other.

I didn't see anyone being curt and cold. I saw people being realistic about the situation, including what you need to do going forward.

I am not sure what you mean about people being compassionate about a situation in which two people are engaging in sexual relations outside of marriage, especially when one of the parties involved is married....surely you know that your actions were wrong. Telling you to break it off with this man does not show a lack of compassion, it is sound advice regarding doing what is right.

But whether you see it or not, there IS caring shown when people say you need to see your bishop.

[skippy740]

I had more questions that I wanted to ask after this one, but I don't really want to anymore. The responses I've gotten have been largely curt and cold. I don't expect anyone to empathize, but I did expect some compassion. My mistake. In other words, in response to your curiosity about this being the one question that I would ask about my transgression, this is just the first question in a series that I wanted others' insight on. You're correct about the meaning of the thread title.

Autumnleaves, I want to apologize. I really do.

But early in the thread you sent a mixed message as to what you were wanting. I was trying to answer your question as best as I could. And when I answered it, this was your response:

It seems as though I'm being told that it really doesn't matter whether or not it's classified as fornication or adultery, but I disagree. The question wasn't if there is a difference or whether or not it makes a difference, but which I have committed.

I didn't know what difference it would really make to you to define the sin that you committed and what difference it would make. This was the reason why I rephrased your question in my first post in this thread - to help you see exactly what you are really asking.

I felt that you were taking a serious sin and asking for a vocabulary lesson, focusing on trivial things, instead of dealing with your feelings.

I'm sorry, but I'm a man, and I'm looking to help, but I only have the posts that you write to go on.

I did type a very curt response (that was probably uncalled for) because I didn't know where you were going with what you were looking for. Definitions are easy to look up. While that was not the emotional purpose behind your post, it was what you were asking for.

I apologize for my curt response. We all are here to help you.

[skippy740]

I should've known.

My mother just won a speech contest in Toastmasters called "How to be a great Mother-in-Law". In that speech, she talks about how women need to talk to their husbands about things.

What men need to learn is to ask a simple question so they know what to do: "Do you want sympathy or advice?"

"Your wish is my command." :)

[JosephP]

I said in my first response that I thought some of the responses were uncharitable, But I never thought any of them were anything but helpful. Sometimes when dealing with factual answers to emotionally sensitive issues, the stated facts seem cold and uncaring. I don't think that's how they were intended by anyone.

I encourage you to ask the other questions that you have. Understand that you are in a written forum, much of the emotion and sensitivity is lost in text. It isn't that people don't feel it, it is just hard to express when writing answers to a specific question.

I am sure that the people here, like myself, truly care about you. Don't turn away because we are limited in how we can demonstrate our fellowship to simple black on white text.

[Backroads]

I apologize if my answers were perceived as curt or cold. I was aiming for factual, not unfriendly.

Indeed, getting to the facts is common around here.

Not to sound too by-the-books, but this forum sees many similar questions. It's not that anyone is seeking to condemn you, but there's an attitude on this board to get to the details and help there.