Stop treating them like monsters.

[MarginOfError]

How Can We Stop Pedophiles?

Stop treating them like monsters.

A rather intriguing article

[Anddenex]

This type of statement from articles really disturbs me,

“We’re just recognizing that people who are attracted to children are there,” **** said. “They didn’t choose it.

They didn't choose it, really?? As long as we give excuses for controllable behaviors, then the behavior will never end.

Whenever I hear a statement like this in defense of these decisions, I always think of a marriage who is dealing with an adulterous relationship. It is very natural for a man to commit adultery, however, to say they didn't choose it, and had no choice in the decision... yet it could be equally said, it isn't his fault, it is just in his nature to not be faithful.

[MarginOfError]

This type of statement from articles really disturbs me,

They didn't choose it, really?? As long as we give excuses for controllable behaviors, then the behavior will never end.

Whenever I hear a statement like this in defense of these decisions, I always think of a marriage who is dealing with an adulterous relationship. It is very natural for a man to commit adultery, however, to say they didn't choose it, and had no choice in the decision... yet it could be equally said, it isn't his fault, it is just in his nature to not be faithful.

I think you're misunderstanding the statement. The quote you picked is a statement that the person did not choose to be attracted to children. Any action on that attraction is recognized as a choice in this article, and soundly condemned.

Likewise, in the adultery example you give, the man may not have chosen to be attracted to the woman, but he did choose to allow that attraction to expand and then to act on that attraction.

At least that's how I read it. Do you feel that all of our attractions are choices?

[Anddenex]

I think you're misunderstanding the statement. The quote you picked is a statement that the person did not choose to be attracted to children. Any action on that attraction is recognized as a choice in this article, and soundly condemned.

Likewise, in the adultery example you give, the man may not have chosen to be attracted to the woman, but he did choose to allow that attraction to expand and then to act on that attraction.

At least that's how I read it. Do you feel that all of our attractions are choices?

I think the statement is coincides with another statement, I believe on page 2, which the author says something like, "People are just born that way."

Yes, I didn't get any inclination from the article that the action wasn't condemned.

As pertaining to your last question, Yes.

This question reminds me of the article I read about a man who is in love with his two dogs. His premise, he can't help himself, he was born attracted to dogs.

In connection to your question, I would ask, are they born this way, or is their attraction no different than yours or mine, except when the attraction first came upon them (an enticement), they dwelled upon the attraction more than you or I?

[annewandering]

Seems like a thoughtful article to me. If we want to learn to deal with pedophilia it makes sense to try to understand it and then to work to help people keep from acting on their inclination. It makes sense to me that there are people who fight this so why shouldnt they be treated with respect?

I have noticed there are two kinds of people in these situations. The ones that enjoy their sins and those who fight the desire on a daily basis. I dont think we are going to reach the ones who enjoy their sin very easily. The others deserve whatever help they can get including our compassion but not our rage.

[MarginOfError]

I think the statement is coincides with another statement, I believe on page 2, which the author says something like, "People are just born that way."

Yes, I didn't get any inclination from the article that the action wasn't condemned.

As pertaining to your last question, Yes.

This question reminds me of the article I read about a man who is in love with his two dogs. His premise, he can't help himself, he was born attracted to dogs.

In connection to your question, I would ask, are they born this way, or is their attraction no different than yours or mine, except when the attraction first came upon them (an enticement), they dwelled upon the attraction more than you or I?

The word 'born' only appears three times in the article, in these contexts:

James Cantor, a senior scientist at the Sexual Behaviors Clinic of the Center of Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto, is at the forefront of neuroimaging studies of pedophiles and has described a kind of crossed wiring in their brains that they’re likely born with. He has expressed hopes that by pinpointing pedophilia’s neurological origins, it may someday lead to a course of prevention.

“All of the attention is on known sex offenders and just heaping on the punishment,” Letourneau told me. “This is said to be due to an interest in prevention, but it’s really about retribution. If people are really serious about preventing children from being molested or raped, it may very well necessitate the uncomfortable acknowledgement that some people are born as pedophiles. All we do is drive it underground.”

“We’re breeding a nation of pedophiles,” she told me. “All the stimuli to which billions of people have been exposed over the last 60 years has manipulated the human mind. All the pornography they’ve been raised on and pharmaceutical products they’ve taken has made them crazy. Some of the crazy people are pedophiles. Some of the crazy people are scientists. Scientist-pedophiles. They will conclude that we’re born this way because it’s the easiest way to get away from the fact that we need to go back to the drawing board.”

In the first two cases, it seems that the message is that pedophiles are born with an innate attraction to children, but with the caveat that these inclinations can be harnessed and controlled. Hence the confusion that you would say "They didn't choose it, really?? As long as we give excuses for controllable behaviors, then the behavior will never end." The whole point of the article was that we might be able to more effectively end pedophilic behavior by being more open about the attractions and providing avenues for therapy and support than be retrospective retribution upon offenders alone*.

Quite honestly, I don't think it is any different than you or I being attracted to women. I don't feel like I choose who I am attracted to. For that matter, I sometimes find a single person attractive one day and not so attractive on another. There have been times I have seen men and been attracted to them. It's something that just happens. What I choose to do with that attraction is another matter.

* This does not imply we should ease up on offenders. I think what is being advocated is an additional and complementary approach that focuses on prevention.

[Guest]

This type of statement from articles really disturbs me,

They didn't choose it, really?? As long as we give excuses for controllable behaviors, then the behavior will never end.

Whenever I hear a statement like this in defense of these decisions, I always think of a marriage who is dealing with an adulterous relationship. It is very natural for a man to commit adultery, however, to say they didn't choose it, and had no choice in the decision... yet it could be equally said, it isn't his fault, it is just in his nature to not be faithful.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. This really is no different than what we tell gays. Being gay is not a sin. And yes, we are open to the possibility that they are born with that psychological tendency to be attracted to people of their own sex. I know there are lots of people who don't believe this, but as somebody who is struggling with my own personal demons, I can completely understand how this would be. Trust me, I did not choose to have rage-tendencies.

So, minor-attractions - I can completely understand how this is another one of those personal demons. Having it is not the problem. Acknowledging that it is there will help more than it will not. Reading the article about how Spencer has gone through all these therapists who just don't "get it" - it rings a deep chord within me because I went through all that too! The need to be heard and understood eats at me. My husband is the one and only person in the entire world that "gets it". Not even my own mother gets it.

My husband may not understand why I'm this way, but he does accept that the rage is something I want to fight - therefore, he stands beside me helping me fight it.

People with minor-attraction issues - I would think it would be loads better for them if there is somebody there that "gets it" and instead of demonizing them, stands beside them and helps them fight it.

[Backroads]

Husband and I actually had a conversation that touched upon this last week. When the conversation touched upon it, we mentioned how we could understand pedophilia a little better than some other bizarre attractions out there (No, we're not pedophiles).

These people happen to be sexually attracted to children. Okay, definitely frowned upon in our society, but I don't think they should automatically be locked up for that attraction only. Granted, you may want to limit their contact with children whenever possible, but why are the inactive ones more dangerous than those attracted to other odd sexualities?

[applepansy]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. This really is no different than what we tell gays. Being gay is not a sin. And yes, we are open to the possibility that they are born with that psychological tendency to be attracted to people of their own sex. I know there are lots of people who don't believe this, but as somebody who is struggling with my own personal demons, I can completely understand how this would be. Trust me, I did not choose to have rage-tendencies.

So, minor-attractions - I can completely understand how this is another one of those personal demons. Having it is not the problem. Acknowledging that it is there will help more than it will not. Reading the article about how Spencer has gone through all these therapists who just don't "get it" - it rings a deep chord within me because I went through all that too! The need to be heard and understood eats at me. My husband is the one and only person in the entire world that "gets it". Not even my own mother gets it.

My husband may not understand why I'm this way, but he does accept that the rage is something I want to fight - therefore, he stands beside me helping me fight it.

People with minor-attraction issues - I would think it would be loads better for them if there is somebody there that "gets it" and instead of demonizing them, stands beside them and helps them fight it.

We understand why people have gender issues today more than ever before. There are two times during pregnancy when an infant is "washed" in hormones which affect their physical form and their mental identity.

If pedophiles are like gay's then is there a pedophile hormone? I don't buy it.

I also don't see rage issues as comparable to pedophilia.

[Anddenex]

The word 'born' only appears three times in the article, in these contexts:

* This does not imply we should ease up on offenders. I think what is being advocated is an additional and complementary approach that focuses on prevention.

I am going to focus on this statement, "some people are born as pedophiles." Notice it does not say they are born with attractions, they are born as pedophiles.

Thus I reiterate my last comment, are they really born this way, or is it when the assumed attraction comes (an enticement), which could logically be an enticement from the adversary, they have just dwelled on the attraction more than you or I?

If attraction is the basis, or premise, then a man who loves animals, not his/her fault either? They are just born zoophilias?

[Anddenex]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Wonderful. Just don't hate me because I have a different opinion then you.

[Windseeker]

I feel that pedophilia and rape are crimes worse than murder. I'm all for life without parole or the death penalty and not as a punishment but more as a deterrent and means of protecting society.

I think efforts at prevention are worthwhile.

[applepansy]

Windseeker I agree with life without parole. I don't agree with the death penalty.

A reactive sexual offender has most likely been sexually abused and love withheld as a very young child.

I do not believe a pedophile is born that way, but I do believe we need to work hard to stop the cycle of abuse.

[Guest]

We understand why people have gender issues today more than ever before. There are two times during pregnancy when an infant is "washed" in hormones which affect their physical form and their mental identity.

If pedophiles are like gay's then is there a pedophile hormone? I don't buy it.

I also don't see rage issues as comparable to pedophilia.

You may not buy it, but it doesn't wipe out the possibility. Just because we don't understand it doesn't make it non-existent. I'm always cognizant of this.

Rage issues may be comparable to pedophilia if we accept Spencer's story in the article and if you accept my story - then they are both chemical imbalances in one's psychological make-up. The brain is a very complex thing. A common lament among neurologists - the more we find new things about the brain, the more we realize how little we know.

[Guest]

Wonderful. Just don't hate me because I have a different opinion then you.

NEVER. If we become neighbors I'm fairly certain we're going to be best friends - and so would our kids.

[Just_A_Guy]

I, for one, can sympathize with the idea of a pedophile's being "born that way", just as I can agree that many gays are also "born that way".

But therein lies the problem. As a society we've spent the last three decades convincing ourselves at a person with a socially unacceptable sexual predisposition, nevertheless has a natural right to enjoy an intimate relationship in fulfillment of that predisposition. Those of us who asked how pedophiles fit into that paradigm, were shouted down and accused of slandering gays as child rapists.

As a conservative, I just hate it when my "slippery slope" arguments turn out to be right.

[applepansy]

You may not buy it, but it doesn't wipe out the possibility. Just because we don't understand it doesn't make it non-existent. I'm always cognizant of this.

Rage issues may be comparable to pedophilia if we accept Spencer's story in the article and if you accept my story - then they are both chemical imbalances in one's psychological make-up. The brain is a very complex thing. A common lament among neurologists - the more we find new things about the brain, the more we realize how little we know.

Reactive sexual offenses are learned. It may become a chemical imbalance but its not one we're "born with". Our choices change the chemicals in the brain (article in Newsweek about the studies confirmed this).

If you'd like I can explain in detail why my my grandson's half-sister a reactive sexual offender at age 9 years old. And her older brother before her

Edited September 25, 2012 by applepansy

[MarginOfError]

I am going to focus on this statement, "some people are born as pedophiles." Notice it does not say they are born with attractions, they are born as pedophiles.

Thus I reiterate my last comment, are they really born this way, or is it when the assumed attraction comes (an enticement), which could logically be an enticement from the adversary, they have just dwelled on the attraction more than you or I?

If attraction is the basis, or premise, then a man who loves animals, not his/her fault either? They are just born zoophilias?

Perhaps we need to distinguish between pedophila and pedosexuality?

[Guest]

Reactive sexual offenses are learned. It may become a chemical imbalance but its not one we're "born with". Our choices change the chemicals in the brain (article in Newsweek about the studies confirmed this).

If you'd like I can explain in detail what my my grandson's half-sister a reactive sexual offender at age 9 years old.

I know about your grandson's half-sister from what you posted here. And I know that she does not represent all sexual offenders. Spencer's story in the article made this clear. So, it's either we accept Spencer's story as true or we dismiss it as a fabrication in light of your grandson's half-sister's experiences.

Why is it easier to accept that autism that expresses itself through rage is something we are born with, yet it is impossible for us to accept that the tendency for rage without the autism is something that we may be born with? Why is it easier to accept that a tendency towards homosexuality is something we are born with, yet it is impossible for us to accept tendencies towards any other type of attraction is something that we may be born with?

I submit that the answer is simply - because we don't understand it.

[applepansy]

I know about your grandson's half-sister from what you posted here. And I know that she does not represent all sexual offenders. Spencer's story in the article made this clear. So, it's either we accept Spencer's story as true or we dismiss it as a fabrication in light of your grandson's half-sister's experiences.

Why is it easier to accept that autism that expresses itself through rage is something we are born with, yet it is impossible for us to accept that the tendency for rage without the autism is something that we may be born with? Why is it easier to accept that a tendency towards homosexuality is something we are born with, yet it is impossible for us to accept tendencies towards any other type of attraction is something that we may be born with?

I submit that the answer is simply - because we don't understand it.

We understand a lot more than we did 10 years ago.

I have an autistic nephew (with RAGE). I don't believe autism is just something we're born with either.

Therefore... I'll agree to disagree.

My grandson's half-sister is one of tens of thousands or more.

[Anddenex]

Perhaps we need to distinguish between pedophila and pedosexuality?

I am not seeing the difference between the two.

Both are able to represent an attraction, or an attraction that has been acted upon, toward children.

You will have to help me understand your frame of reference in dividing the two.

In addition to attraction, is a man considered an adulterer if he is attracted to other women besides his wife?

This is my problem, to root an argument upon attraction, verses acting on the attraction, I would agree are two different scenarios.

However, it will be really hard to convince me, that an attraction, automatically assumes one is born as a pedophila, zoophila, or homophila (is that the correct workd), etc...

If I based, being born a certain way by "attraction", then why are some men more easily to decline the attraction and shrug it off, where others give in?

I think this type of article leads to slippery slopes.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Anddenex

[applepansy]

This thread is too close to a lot of heartache for me. So.... I'm going to say one more thing and be done.

If you believe in the principle of Agency then the excuse of "I was born this way" doesn't old any water.

Have a great day and I wish all of you a wonderful day.

[Windseeker]

The savior said

“It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

Luke 17:2

.. and there’s your quote from one with perfect compassion.

I believe it’s possible for a person to restrict or greatly limit another’s free agency and were talking about messing with fundamental eternal principle here.

Satan can literally abuse a child so hard that it narrows that child’s perception and mental ability to where he is simply unable to comprehend other options and it affects that person for life. Those people lose the ability to empathize. That child, now a man, goes on to abuse others. It's Satan’s ultimate pyramid scheme where he knocks down one domino and it takes very little to no effort to watch the next one fall.

I believe those born this way are by far the exception some studies show that upwards of 60% of pedophiles are themselves victims of abuse (Galynker and Cohen). Lately in the News there has been a rash of reports of drug related gang rapes of children. I don’t think any of those involved were born pedophiles or were abused.

The first order of business is to protect our children and prevent these things from occurring.

[Guest]

I have an autistic nephew (with RAGE). I don't believe autism is just something we're born with either.

I'll have to ask you to explain this statement. Autism is one of those things that have massive research behind it and the consensus is that the causes, although causality is still largely unknown, are found in both genetic and environmental factors.

Yes, there are cases of autism where the symptoms develop as the child ages. Yes, there are also symptoms of autism that are present seemingly at birth. And yes, there are symptoms of autism that are regressive (born seemingly normal and regresses to autism as the child grows older).

But the evidence remains that Autism Spectrum Disorder has a high heritability rate (that is, the differences between autistic and non-autistic children are due to genetic effects). Some studies even show a 90% heritability rate - which is pretty significant.

My grandson's half-sister is one of tens of thousands or more.

But she's not ALL. There are so many sexual deviants in the entire world who have no sexual abuse history! We are merely discussing here those people who are like Spencer, not those people who are like your grandson's half-sister.

Edited September 25, 2012 by anatess

[Sharky]

Seems like a thoughtful article to me. If we want to learn to deal with pedophilia it makes sense to try to understand it and then to work to help people keep from acting on their inclination. It makes sense to me that there are people who fight this so why shouldnt they be treated with respect?

I have noticed there are two kinds of people in these situations. The ones that enjoy their sins and those who fight the desire on a daily basis. I dont think we are going to reach the ones who enjoy their sin very easily. The others deserve whatever help they can get including our compassion but not our rage.

Can't, or won't, say if or how much of the article I don't or do agree with, but I will give one of my personal experiences.

I personally know a pedophile, a couple in fact.

One is now out of prison & lives in the area. He has been out & "off paper" (off parole & no longer supervised) for close to 15 years. His name, based on state law, has even been removed from the Sex Offender Registry based on those 15 years. He is a wonderful & great individual. He is (& was at the time of his offense) LDS.

He does NOT attend church. He fears doing so, the fact that children tend to run about freely & "make friends" with various adults at church, could "stir" in him some of those feelings that he long struggled to bring & keep under control.

Finding some acceptance in the community was & has been a necessity in helping him to control those "urges" & become a very productive member of society.

I don't believe that every pedophile has that level of commitment that this individual has displayed. I know of some who delibrately place themselves in "hot zones" where they know they will reoffend. Most, I would not trust.

This one individual though, the 1st time I met him I just felt as if he deserved, as if he had earned, my compassion & acceptance. I knew nothing about him at that time except his criminal record & still it was an overwhelming feeling that he hard earned my compassion, my acceptance.

The Lord will hold me responsible if I refuse to forgive. In this specific case I fully believe that the Lord has forgiven, there is no other way but thru repentance that this individual could be so completely integrated into a fairly normaal life for so many years without reoffending.

I am sure there are some who will question, "How do you know he isn't still abusing children?".

I have no evidence to either side of that arguement, but I know, through testimony of the spirit, that it is not my place to judge this indivdual based on his past.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Sharky