Stupid little drama..cause I'm bored

[Windseeker]

Just wanted to share something that’s been bothering me a little bit.

My son is trying to get his ecclesiastical endorsement and the Bishop is giving him a hard time because of his haircut. He’s already cut it once. It’s not a missionary style but well off the ears and back of the neck.

It looks kind of like this.

He doesn’t understand why he has to live the BYU standards now when it comes to hair, yet he’s allowed to wear flip flops until he goes to a Church College.

Meanwhile a girl in our ward who’s a super achiever, has literally thousands of dollars’ worth of scholarships (one of the scholarships she has by itself is worth $140,000), School President, Captain of the Cheer team was just honored with a young women’s medallion last week, is not living the standards of the Church (Parties (alcohol), Got Caught sleeping with her old boyfriend by her new boyfriend who she also sleeps with). The girl is really nice and the only reason my kids aren’t super good friends with her is they can’t stomach duplicitousness. Anyway, she’s getting her ecclesiastical endorsement of course.

These are two separate things.

My take –

Told my son to cut his hair again and just humble himself.

As far as the girl is concerned I don’t think it’s any of my business.

Would you guys say anything to the Bishop or just let it go?

If you think I should tell the Bishop, I have no proof, I trust my kids are sharing this out of frustration not out of jealosy or anything, but it probably would be taken that way if we mentioned it to the Bishop.

[Vort]

I agree with both of your conclusions.

[bytor2112]

The Bishop should give the endorsement based on worthiness and let BYU deal with the hair if he hasn't cut it.

[Vort]

The Bishop should give the endorsement based on worthiness and let BYU deal with the hair if he hasn't cut it.

Both true, but both also irrelevant. They are in the situation they are in, and the best course of action (IMO) is exactly what Windseeker said.

[Guest]

Regardless of anything else, the girl and her situation and what you think you know about all of that are absolutely none of your business.

As far as your son is concerned, I agree that the bishop seems to be acting a bit heavy-handed. I'm not exactly sure what I would tell my son. I suppose I'd ask him if his hair was worth the fight, and leave it up to him. But my son isn't quite 2 so it's hard to say. :)

Have you personally spoken to the bishop concerning your feelings on this?

[Backroads]

I also agree the bishop may be a stick in the mud and it might be a good idea to talk to the bishop further about it, though, yeah if push comes to shove your son should just cut his hair.

As for the girl, I agree with keeping silent. If the information is true or your kids are just spreading gossip, I see no point in taking it further on your end. Bishops would never have a moment's peace if we all tattled on our neighbors. The way I see it, karma happens eventually and she may or may not be able to keep up such behavior at BYU without getting caught.

[Just_A_Guy]

He doesn’t understand why he has to live the BYU standards now when it comes to hair, yet he’s allowed to wear flip flops until he goes to a Church College.

1) Because the ecclesiastical endorsement form specifically asks the bishop whether the applicant has lived according to the honor code (including dress & grooming standards) for the past year (or, if not, whether the applicant has resolved (past tense) the infraction), and

2) Because under the text of the honor code, the provisions regarding long hair and modest clothing are applicable to the student wherever (s)he is; but the mandate for shoes specifically applies only when the student is in a "public campus area".

[Soulsearcher]

Reminds me a little of when one of the kids wanted to go to their first dance. the Bishop said he had to get a hair cut before he could go. So i took him to get a hair cut. He was in the chair about 5 minutes and very little was different when he was done, but he did exactly what the Bishop said. He got ordained the next day and the Bishop said he was a little disappointed that the boy hadn't got a hair cut. The boy let him know he did indeed get a hair cut, and i had to stand up and agree that yes he did get a hair cut. The Bishop was a little annoyed and i just mentioned that if he desired a specific outcome he might have been clear on his expectations being he knew this particular boy loved his hair and hadn't really changed it in a few years. That being said as soon as we left church I gave the kid a slight smack upside the head and said i knew exactly what he'd done and while it was kinda funny he'd better not try it again or i was shaving his head.

[Soulsearcher]

Reminds me a little of when one of the kids wanted to go to their first dance. the Bishop said he had to get a hair cut before he could go. So i took him to get a hair cut. He was in the chair about 5 minutes and very little was different when he was done, but he did exactly what the Bishop said. He got ordained the next day and the Bishop said he was a little disappointed that the boy hadn't got a hair cut. The boy let him know he did indeed get a hair cut, and i had to stand up and agree that yes he did get a hair cut. The Bishop was a little annoyed and i just mentioned that if he desired a specific outcome he might have been clear on his expectations being he knew this particular boy loved his hair and hadn't really changed it in a few years. That being said as soon as we left church I gave the kid a slight smack upside the head and said i knew exactly what he'd done and while it was kinda funny he'd better not try it again or i was shaving his head.

[Windseeker]

Regardless of anything else, the girl and her situation and what you think you know about all of that are absolutely none of your business.

As far as your son is concerned, I agree that the bishop seems to be acting a bit heavy-handed. I'm not exactly sure what I would tell my son. I suppose I'd ask him if his hair was worth the fight, and leave it up to him. But my son isn't quite 2 so it's hard to say. :)

Have you personally spoken to the bishop concerning your feelings on this?

Well I think what I know of the situation would be my business, I mean I can't really ignore my kids. This girl was the first to reach out to my daughter when we moved here. I really think she is a wonderful girl, still do, but my kids are not immune to temptation. They have had to make decisions to sacrifice popularity and fun by holding strong to their values. They don't see the blessings from their decisions yet. They sometimes lament they wish they could just be "normal". So I have to provide some kind of council.

I love our Bishop, and I have not spoken to him about this. I just found out I don't have too. My son was sitting next to this girl during seminary this morning when the Bishop came up and told her he had her endorsement ready, then he saw my son and apologized and said he would take care of him tonight. My son got his endorsement today so I guess it's a non-issue at this point.

Reflecting on these posts perhaps I will be more open with my Bishop when I have concerns. I just don't want to be an undo burden.

I also agree the bishop may be a stick in the mud and it might be a good idea to talk to the bishop further about it, though, yeah if push comes to shove your son should just cut his hair.

As for the girl, I agree with keeping silent. If the information is true or your kids are just spreading gossip, I see no point in taking it further on your end. Bishops would never have a moment's peace if we all tattled on our neighbors. The way I see it, karma happens eventually and she may or may not be able to keep up such behavior at BYU without getting caught.

I agree with what you've said about Karma. We believe all things will work out and there is a far greater reward in heaven for those who sacrifice for obedience. I suppose learning the Bishop isn't clairvoyant and we can hid out sins isn't going to damage ones testimony anymore than it already is.

So I have a question, is it ever appropriate to share second hand information with the Bishop? Has anyone done this?

[Windseeker]

Regardless of anything else, the girl and her situation and what you think you know about all of that are absolutely none of your business.

As far as your son is concerned, I agree that the bishop seems to be acting a bit heavy-handed. I'm not exactly sure what I would tell my son. I suppose I'd ask him if his hair was worth the fight, and leave it up to him. But my son isn't quite 2 so it's hard to say. :)

Have you personally spoken to the bishop concerning your feelings on this?

Well I think what I know of the situation would be my business, I mean I can't really ignore my kids. This girl was the first to reach out to my daughter when we moved here. I really think she is a wonderful girl, still do, but my kids are not immune to temptation. They have had to make decisions to sacrifice popularity and fun by holding strong to their values. They don't see the blessings from their decisions yet. They sometimes lament they wish they could just be "normal". So I have to provide some kind of council.

I love our Bishop, and I have not spoken to him about this. I just found out I don't have too. My son was sitting next to this girl during seminary this morning when the Bishop came up and told her he had her endorsement ready, then he saw my son and apologized and said he would take care of him tonight. My son got his endorsement today so I guess it's a non-issue at this point.

Reflecting on these posts perhaps I will be more open with my Bishop when I have concerns (about my family). I just don't want to be an undo burden.

I also agree the bishop may be a stick in the mud and it might be a good idea to talk to the bishop further about it, though, yeah if push comes to shove your son should just cut his hair.

As for the girl, I agree with keeping silent. If the information is true or your kids are just spreading gossip, I see no point in taking it further on your end. Bishops would never have a moment's peace if we all tattled on our neighbors. The way I see it, karma happens eventually and she may or may not be able to keep up such behavior at BYU without getting caught.

I agree with what you've said about Karma. We believe all things will work out and there is a far greater reward in heaven for those who sacrifice for obedience. I suppose learning the Bishop isn't clairvoyant and we can hid out sins isn't going to damage ones testimony anymore than it already is.

So I have a question, is it ever appropriate to share second hand information with the Bishop? Has anyone done this?

[Guest]

What I meant is, how she's being handled by the bishop is none of your business and has nothing to do with how your son is being handled by the bishop, as far as you're concerned. Comparing and complaining will get him nowhere.

I most definitely would not share secondhand info with a bishop. I've learned the hard way too many times that things are not always how they sound or look. The only way I would is if I witnessed something firsthand and felt a responsibility to the person or someone else to get the bishop involved.

[pooter1]

Same thing happened to my son.He wore the spikey look back in the 90's. He was told he couldn't pass sacrament until he changed his hair style. The boy sitting next to him blessing the sacrament had told him about porn he had been looking at but it was my son that got the talking to because of the way he looked.He never got over that. He is very anti mormon now.He said he didn't want to be in a church that judged you on the way you looked. I agree with him to a point.

[Dravin]

It always amazes me how people seem to forget that a Bishop can only address what he knows about. An infraction that is visible will be noticed and addressed before an infraction that is not visible and that pretty much requires confession to be known*. This doesn't really mean anything as to seriousness. You get, "My X was talked to about ('minor' visible issue) but Y hasn't been talked to about ('major' hidden issue)!" As if it means the person doing the talking to just doesn't care about 'major' issues and must consider 'minor' issues more important. Which is just an inane conclusion to reach.

*By the Bishop, before you start the "But everyone knows the rumors!" game think long and hard if you'd want the Bishop believing any rumor about you that manages to get any traction. Particularly after denial because a simple, "Do you need to come see me? No? Okay." is effectively a denial to the Bishop that there is a problem and not something most people aware of the juicy rumor are going to be aware of.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Dravin

[Windseeker]

Same thing happened to my son.He wore the spikey look back in the 90's. He was told he couldn't pass sacrament until he changed his hair style. The boy sitting next to him blessing the sacrament had told him about porn he had been looking at but it was my son that got the talking to because of the way he looked.He never got over that. He is very anti mormon now.He said he didn't want to be in a church that judged you on the way you looked. I agree with him to a point.

I felt very much misjudged as a youth. I was a punk and had real issues with the whole corporate image the Church espouses. That said, It really it's difficult to get past first impressions and judgment on appearance. We can aspire to it and improve on it via experience, but I don't think we will be completely free of it in this life. As I progressed thru High School, I started to notice how there was just as much judgment coming from edgy folks such as punks, goths, emo, scene kids etc on appearance if not more than regular folks who comply to conservative societal standards of dress and fashion. Toward the end of High School I drew allot of stink eye at concerts by dressing normal (preppy) it was fun.

We can only aspire to be like the lord

1 SAMUEL 16:7

..for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart

The Savior himself didn't dress in any unusual fashions as far as I know. He dressed in accordance to what was acceptable and standard at the time.

If the church wants me to dress for the boardroom, then so be it. I know the Lord is looking on my heart and hopefully he sees I love him thru my Obedience.

[RMGuy]

Just a thought and I hope this doesn't come across wrong, but if this chafes you or your son the wrong way, then perhaps BYU isn't the school for him.

There are a lot of good institutions out there. And as an aside there is NO WAY I would allow my oldest child to attend the Y. It would be hell on earth for her, and she would make it hell for others too. My middle child would thrive there. Just like Berkley isn't for everyone, neither is BYU.

-RM

[Windseeker]

Just a thought and I hope this doesn't come across wrong, but if this chafes you or your son the wrong way, then perhaps BYU isn't the school for him.

There are a lot of good institutions out there. And as an aside there is NO WAY I would allow my oldest child to attend the Y. It would be hell on earth for her, and she would make it hell for others too. My middle child would thrive there. Just like Berkley isn't for everyone, neither is BYU.

-RM

He's a Post Hardcore singer I think he'll fit in fine. Seriously he's looking forward to it. I think he just wanted the hair change to come last. He spent some time at BYU this summer, going to EFY and hanging out with his cousins who are enrolled there. He loved it and enjoyed all the people he met there.

[applepansy]

We can never fix the other person. All we can do is try to become what Heavenly Father wants us to become. One of the ways is to humble ourselves and be obedient. Part of being obedient is to sustain our leaders. Even if the Bishop is wrong, its right to be obedient.

When we are obedient then we are blessed.

Let the rest of it go.