PDA at church

[Dravin]

Agreed, but during Sacrament meeting?

What exactly are your picturing when someone talks about a back-rub within the context of PDA at Church??

[Wingnut]

What exactly are your picturing when someone talks about a back-rub within the context of PDA at Church??

I have sat behind couples who are rubbing each others' backs non-stop during Sacrament meeting. There's no purring, no massaging of shoulders, or anything deeply involved. It's perfectly chaste, yet still quite distracting. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people can keep their hands to themselves and pay attention without physical stimulation for the duration of an hour and ten minutes. It doesn't bother me when I see it in Sunday School -- only Sacrament meeting. It's the most sacred part of Church, and the primary purpose for which we attend each week. As much as possible, the focus should be on the ordinance, the talks, and the Spirit, not on each other.

Clearly though, I'm in the minority on this.

[Bini]

I have sat behind couples who are rubbing each others' backs non-stop during Sacrament meeting. There's no purring, no massaging of shoulders, or anything deeply involved. It's perfectly chaste, yet still quite distracting. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people can keep their hands to themselves and pay attention without physical stimulation for the duration of an hour and ten minutes. It doesn't bother me when I see it in Sunday School -- only Sacrament meeting. It's the most sacred part of Church, and the primary purpose for which we attend each week. As much as possible, the focus should be on the ordinance, the talks, and the Spirit, not on each other.

Clearly though, I'm in the minority on this.

You are not! I greatly agree with everything you've said.

[Wingnut]

You are not! I greatly agree with everything you've said.

Oh I'm definitely in the minority. I'm just glad to not be the only voice of dissent. :)

[Bini]

Oh I'm definitely in the minority. I'm just glad to not be the only voice of dissent. :)

Actually, you're right, it is a minority stance..

But if it makes you feel any better, I was the minority in the "Handle your rugrats during sacrament meeting" thread :)

[Dravin]

I have sat behind couples who are rubbing each others' backs non-stop during Sacrament meeting. There's no purring, no massaging of shoulders, or anything deeply involved. It's perfectly chaste, yet still quite distracting. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people can keep their hands to themselves and pay attention without physical stimulation for the duration of an hour and ten minutes. It doesn't bother me when I see it in Sunday School -- only Sacrament meeting. It's the most sacred part of Church, and the primary purpose for which we attend each week. As much as possible, the focus should be on the ordinance, the talks, and the Spirit, not on each other.

Clearly though, I'm in the minority on this.

A few thoughts:

1) Why is it distracting?

2) It sounds like you are opposed to any shows of affection on grounds of them stealing focus. Does this apply to hand holding, or even sitting close to each other?

3) You are assuming that the back-rub, or other display of affection, is taking focus. I think your assumption is not necessarily valid. For instance I tend to lightly rub Beefche's upper arm during sacrament, while we're sitting closely next to each other at that, it is a mostly subconscious thing. It certainly doesn't steal my focus away from the meeting. Even when it's a back-rub, a hand on the shoulder for instance, it's not stealing focus away from the meeting.

Talking about how one shouldn't be focusing on such displays of affection comes across like someone talking about how one shouldn't be focusing on twiddling ones thumbs or some other mostly automatic action. If someone came up to me and told me, "You should be focusing on the meeting, not on lightly scratching your wife's arm!" I'd look at them like they'd said, "You shouldn't be twisting your ring around your finger!" or even, "Stop tapping your fingers on your thigh and focus!"

Edited January 10, 2013 by Dravin

[beefche]

Can we hold hands or have an arm around the other in the Celestial Room? Is that distracting? What about rubbing his back at a movie theater when there are others sitting directly behind us--distracting?

[Bini]

I can only speak for myself.

I standby the statement that "discretion" is key. If you're not violating Church standards, do what you're gonna do but keep others in mind. Using discretion when giving backrubs or breastfeeding during Sacrament Meeting is appreciated. I'm not for outlawing either, just be thoughtful when you do these things. All this said, IDEALLY, I agree with Wingnut - the focus is on Jesus Christ and if we can manage to keep from fidgeting - the better.

In response to this

Can we hold hands or have an arm around the other in the Celestial Room? Is that distracting? What about rubbing his back at a movie theater when there are others sitting directly behind us--distracting?

Cinemas are typically dark enough for me that I don't care if you're rubbing each other up or down! BUT if you're tinkering on your phone, kicking my seat or talking during the movie - I'll let you know..

[Vort]

Since I haven't witnessed CMOs (much less NCMOs) during the sacrament meeting, I am perhaps not the ideal person to comment on the thread. I sit by my wife, hold her hand, and put my arm around her during sacrament. Occasionally she will rest her head on my shoulder and I will rest my head on her head. I will also sometimes lightly scratch or rub the back of one of my kids who happens to be sitting beside me, as my own father did to me. It has never occurred to me that any of this might be distracting or offensive to those sitting in back of us. Maybe I should ask...

[Wingnut]

Arm around the shoulders, hand-holding, whatever. A subconscious rubbing of the arm with a finger or two while your arm is around your wife isn't distracting. I'm talking about when one spouse is leaned forward, and the other is actively rubbing the first's back. That's not subconscious, and it can be very distracting.

I'm also coming from a place where my husband doesn't even hold my hand in public on date night without my prompting him first, so I may be more sensitive to PDA since it's lacking in my own life. Wait, what's date night? :)

[Bini]

Arm around the shoulders, hand-holding, whatever. A subconscious rubbing of the arm with a finger or two while your arm is around your wife isn't distracting. I'm talking about when one spouse is leaned forward, and the other is actively rubbing the first's back. That's not subconscious, and it can be very distracting.

I'm also coming from a place where my husband doesn't even hold my hand in public on date night without my prompting him first, so I may be more sensitive to PDA since it's lacking in my own life. Wait, what's date night? :)

First paragraph. Subconscious = discreet. I agree with your definition.

Second paragraph. Could be but I get easily distracted by such things and my husband is pretty good about PDA.

[LilyBelle00]

Agreed, but during Sacrament meeting?

Yes, during sacrament meeting. :)

Maybe we all picture different things when we say back rub. When I scratch or rub my husband's back at church it's more of a quick "I love you" thing. It's not like I crawl up behind him on the pew, roll my sleeves up, and give a deep tissue massage.

[Gwen]

A couple of situations to consider.

When my mom was little (not lds) she went to church for one reason. She did not have a mother in her life and if she sat next to the older women and would lay her head in their laps during the sermon they would rub her hair or back and fan her (no ac) and she would get that bit of affection she could not get at home. For an hour once a week she had "a mom".

One of my boys has a sensory integration issue. His nervous system is constantly craving stimulus. No matter what he does it's never enough. It makes sitting very hard. For him not having the stimulus means he is distracted by his body constantly wanting to do something. To rub his back or something helps to "distract" the nervous system so he can focus. This is not something he will grow out of and could be an issue as an adult as well. I'm hoping I can help him learn to manage it but if not he may need his wife to rub his back. lol

I was recently told my my son's OT to tie a elastic band around the feet of his chair so he could bounce his feet on it when he did homework. It would give his legs the stimulus they needed to stay seated long enough to get it done. That if it worked really well she would help me get it written into his IEP that he can have one in class. (It's a new idea so don't know how well it will work for him yet.)

The same is sometimes true for someone with ADHD. I know when my mom would study she was constantly bouncing her leg. It created a rhythm for her brain so she could focus. You've met ppl like this, constantly tapping a pencil or their fingers or something. Everyone would tell her it was distracting and to stop. She would try so hard but if she didn't her brain would scatter.

On the other hand I can also understand (particularly with my ADD) how someone can be easily distracted by the movement in front of them. I guess with all my kids we tend to be the ones moving so I figure if I'm distracted I need to get over it. lol For some sitting in the front row cuts that distraction. For me sitting in the back helps. If I hear something I can quickly identify it and then my brain goes back to focus on the mtg, if I can't identify it that's when I get distracted. Unfortunately for us everyone sits in the back so we get stuck in the front, where everyone can see us and I have to turn around when things distract me. lol No one has ever complained but if they did I would gladly trade seats so they didn't have to see us.

[Bini]

A couple of situations to consider.

When my mom was little (not lds) she went to church for one reason. She did not have a mother in her life and if she sat next to the older women and would lay her head in their laps during the sermon they would rub her hair or back and fan her (no ac) and she would get that bit of affection she could not get at home. For an hour once a week she had "a mom".

One of my boys has a sensory integration issue. His nervous system is constantly craving stimulus. No matter what he does it's never enough. It makes sitting very hard. For him not having the stimulus means he is distracted by his body constantly wanting to do something. To rub his back or something helps to "distract" the nervous system so he can focus. This is not something he will grow out of and could be an issue as an adult as well. I'm hoping I can help him learn to manage it but if not he may need his wife to rub his back. lol

I was recently told my my son's OT to tie a elastic band around the feet of his chair so he could bounce his feet on it when he did homework. It would give his legs the stimulus they needed to stay seated long enough to get it done. That if it worked really well she would help me get it written into his IEP that he can have one in class. (It's a new idea so don't know how well it will work for him yet.)

The same is sometimes true for someone with ADHD. I know when my mom would study she was constantly bouncing her leg. It created a rhythm for her brain so she could focus. You've met ppl like this, constantly tapping a pencil or their fingers or something. Everyone would tell her it was distracting and to stop. She would try so hard but if she didn't her brain would scatter.

On the other hand I can also understand (particularly with my ADD) how someone can be easily distracted by the movement in front of them. I guess with all my kids we tend to be the ones moving so I figure if I'm distracted I need to get over it. lol For some sitting in the front row cuts that distraction. For me sitting in the back helps. If I hear something I can quickly identify it and then my brain goes back to focus on the mtg, if I can't identify it that's when I get distracted. Unfortunately for us everyone sits in the back so we get stuck in the front, where everyone can see us and I have to turn around when things distract me. lol No one has ever complained but if they did I would gladly trade seats so they didn't have to see us.

I appreciate this post. I taught a class on this a few years back for Autism.

[AnthonyB]

We are encouraged in the NT "to greet on anothr with a holy kiss", not to mention the whole foot washing thing. Are people really going to get to heaven and have Jesus reach to hug them and say, "No thanks PDA is inappropiate in heaven".

[MorningStar]

I apologize for the accidental ear nibbling I engaged in. Repeatedly. During the opening prayer. And the closing one.

[Wingnut]

I apologize for the accidental ear nibbling I engaged in. Repeatedly. During the opening prayer. And the closing one.

I've actually seen ear nibbling in Sacrament meeting. It was definitely not accidental.

[Guest]

I've actually seen ear nibbling in Sacrament meeting. It was definitely not accidental.

Now that is over the line.

[Chrissy3818]

As long as their not making out lol, but I have never seen anyone do this. I think people need to get over them selves (Sorry). Come from a 17 year old girl when I see old couple cuddling or even wives rubbing husbands back, but more to the older couples I think that's what I want my future relationship to be like at their age. Don't take it away!!! I think it's sweet and adorable.