Can We All Be Future Messiahs?

[Guest jackvance99]

mormons (not necessarily the LDS church) have often taught that families will be together forever. by that, i've always understood the family to mean the marital unit, since children will marry and have their families and so on. hence, it can't be a case of me and my wife living forever with our four kids as a family unit - since that would exclude my parents, her parents, my grandparents, her grandparents, my son's children and grandchildren and so on. get what i mean?

also, if a man and wife can become like heavenly father and heavenly mother, have their own spirit children (who will somehow be created via a procreative sexual method which somehow forms the eternal intelligences into spirit form), have their own worlds and then people those worlds with their spirit children in mortal tabernacles of flesh. then....

won't the first spirit child there ba our own version of adam. will he need to be tempted? if so, by the satan who already exists, or by one of our own children who rebels and follows the already existent satan? (was satan himself tempted by an even higher satan)?

also, christ said he didn't do anything which he didn't see his father do? joseph smith taught that god was once as man (or perhaps as christ) and worked out the salvation of another world (or worlds)

if so, and we become like god - does that mean that evry man who attains exaltation and creates and becomes a god of that world - will he one day have to become flesh again and go to that world this time as a messiah and be crucified or something similar.

did christ already live on a world as a normal man once. became exalted. created our world and then came as the messiah of that world.

OR is there a messianic line - a royal line - in heaven - to which the family of god and christ belong, but which we will never be a part of?

[MaidservantX]

There are many, many thoughts and questions to consider in what you've brought forward. I will just choose one. And that is the Adam scenario.

I would submit to you that we know very little about the historical, chronological events that lie in the folds of the portrayal of the Adam and Eve process. There is a huge amount of knowledge possible to be gleaned from a very precise set of symbols. That knowledge can primarily be considered spiritual, although all things are spiritual. I am NOT saying that the Adam and Eve story is a myth or a metaphor divorced from fleshly reality; it very much is not. But I do think that one effect that was purposely provided in the Adam and Eve story is a truncation of events, people and places, etc. And until some of that knowledge becomes more clear to us, or I should say, AS that knowledge becomes more clear to us, then the rest of your questions will find themselves answered. It is very interesting to ponder, indeed.

[Traveler]

also, christ said he didn't do anything which he didn't see his father do? joseph smith taught that god was once as man (or perhaps as christ) and worked out the salvation of another world (or worlds)

if so, and we become like god - does that mean that evry man who attains exaltation and creates and becomes a god of that world - will he one day have to become flesh again and go to that world this time as a messiah and be crucified or something similar.

did christ already live on a world as a normal man once. became exalted. created our world and then came as the messiah of that world.

OR is there a messianic line - a royal line - in heaven - to which the family of god and christ belong, but which we will never be a part of?

This post is so full of foolishness I am stunned and marvel where such information comes from in the first place. In the expression "does that mean that every man who attains exaltation and creates and becomes a g-d of that world". How is it that being a g-d demands that in order to obtain the position of G-d, one must create and be a "g-d of a world". Such nonsense demands that the true and eternal G-d cannot exist - because a G-d could not exist prior to "The Creation" and that the eternal G-d was not G-d until he was a G-d of this world or some other world - since all worlds were created the eternalness of G-d could not have existed prior to such worlds.

The truth given us in scripture is that Jesus Christ is the example to man of all things concerning G-d – Which proves the LDS doctrine “As man is G-d once was {meaning that in the manner that man is; Jesus once came to earth and took upon himself} and as G-d is man may become {meaning that as Jesus was resurrected from the dead and so is alive today that man will also be resurrected and live}.

Why can't those claiming to be traditional Christians believe the truth?

The Traveler

[Dr T]

If I read you correctly, I'd agree, Traveler. God, is God, regardless if he created a world or not. The progression idea (along with the rites of passage) however seems to dictate that those behavior occur prior to exaltation. I think that's what jackvance99 is referencing.

[CrimsonKairos]

My question is, if #2 pencils are so good, how come they're still #2?

[MaidservantX]

I love it, CK!!! But do you have a source to back up your insinuation????? I'd like to hear it. As a matter of fact, Joseph Smith, said nothing about pencils, whatsoever.

By the way, there is a difference between creating an earth and creating a world. Which do you think is more difficult? Creating a world. Creating an earth is mastery over elements that can be acted upon; creating a world is influence over beings that act for themselves (including our own selves!). We are each, at this very moment, creating a world and none of us are yet gods. But what kind of world will yours end up to be? Do you see what kind of test this life is?

And I might add we know we need the Savior to create our little heaven on earth -- can't be done by ourselves, at least in this probation.

We do practice creating earths, as well, by caring for and increasing the production and beauty of our homes, gardens, communities etc. Also what we consider scientific knowledge could fall in this category.

Creating earths and creating worlds complement each other and are often bound up in each other -- kind of like the spirit and the body; we think of them separately, but the influence between the two goes in a forever cycle.

We already know how to create earths, because for some reason I am under the impression that we helped create this earth in preparation to come here. We served and assisted the Savior.

[Dr T]

Great one CK

[ldsgal6]

Great one CK

I think I'm starting to really like you guys ! Good ones!!! :)

[Latter Days Guy]

The truth given us in scripture is that Jesus Christ is the example to man of all things concerning G-d – Which proves the LDS doctrine “As man is G-d once was {meaning that in the manner that man is; Jesus once came to earth and took upon himself} and as G-d is man may become {meaning that as Jesus was resurrected from the dead and so is alive today that man will also be resurrected and live}.

Why can't those claiming to be traditional Christians believe the truth?

The Traveler

Wow, I've been trying to get that quote sorted in my mind for a while now and then you come along and put it so well! I've put it in my signature to remind me

[Nate]

Jack, im going to give a whack at your questions. Everyone reading this response, this is my understanding and I am not saying this is how it is.

mormons (not necessarily the LDS church) have often taught that families will be together forever. by that, i've always understood the family to mean the marital unit, since children will marry and have their families and so on. hence, it can't be a case of me and my wife living forever with our four kids as a family unit - since that would exclude my parents, her parents, my grandparents, her grandparents, my son's children and grandchildren and so on. get what i mean?

I agree 100% with you and I think that as members we need to realise that more. We are so concerned with being sealed with our kids because we think of them as kids. They could be older spiritualy than there mortal parents and will have there own spouse so whats up. Why do you think back in the day we use to be sealed to a member of the 12 instead of our family?

won't the first spirit child there ba our own version of adam. will he need to be tempted? if so, by the satan who already exists, or by one of our own children who rebels and follows the already existent satan? (was satan himself tempted by an even higher satan)?

If the plan that we are all in is the most perfect way of sifting through spirits to see who can make it to Goddhod one would think that this is a repetitive process through the eons. In our heavenly Fathers previous plan that he was a part of have a "Adam" and a "Satan"? I believe that it did because that was the most perfect way of developing a plan to bring out the full potental of spirits. Was there name Adam I dont know but I feel that the role was the same.

also, christ said he didn't do anything which he didn't see his father do? joseph smith taught that god was once as man (or perhaps as christ) and worked out the salvation of another world (or worlds)

This I understand that our Father was Christ on a previous plan.

if so, and we become like god - does that mean that evry man who attains exaltation and creates and becomes a god of that world - will he one day have to become flesh again and go to that world this time as a messiah and be crucified or something similar.

No, cause we are all promised what the Father has if we are obedient. Our Father just happened to be a Christ just how Jesus of Nazereth will be a god with his own plan and will be in the same position that our Father is. What about us? We still have the potential of the same just we happen to not be a Christ on this plan. We will not be denied our full potential if we are worth to recieve it. Our time in the flesh is now.

did christ already live on a world as a normal man once. became exalted. created our world and then came as the messiah of that world.

No, he did not have a body and needed to go through the same process that we do. Once we are resurected we are resurected. I would think that once a certain level of Glory has been obtained you would not degress back down.

All my own thoughts. Please be easy on me before you start rippin my spiritual head off.

[CrimsonKairos]

Nate, yer goin' ta hell boy!

Bwahahahaha, just kidding.

My dad thinks as you do Nate, namely, that God our Father was once a Savior for His Father's spirit children, and that there is a line of saviors through eternity.

I myself don't hold a definite position either way, but I'm leaning away from that line of thinking. And no, I don't think you're going to hell, hahaha. B)

[Adomini22]

Well said Nate. God our Father was once a Savior to his Fathers spiritual children. Journal of Discourses say that Jesus did all that he saw his Father do... and what was that? Come down, take up mortality (and a body, which was needed) and lay down his life as a sacrifice.

[CrimsonKairos]

See that's my problem...the theory is based on one statement by Jesus in the NT, and Jesus doesn't mention his atonement in connection with this statement. I guess we'll find out someday.

[Adomini22]

See that's my problem...the theory is based on one statement by Jesus in the NT, and Jesus doesn't mention his atonement in connection with this statement. I guess we'll find out someday.

Truth is.... you have a point. He didnt say anything about a sacrifice. I do remember reading something in Journal of Discourses, if I am correct. Though, I dont remember the quote exactly and I dont remember if it said anything about sacrifice. Good point CK

[Dr T]

Hey Ad,

Journal of Discourses say that Jesus did all that he saw his Father do... and what was that? Come down, take up mortality (and a body, which was needed) and lay down his life as a sacrifice.

Chronologically that doesn't make sense to me. How could Jesus see his father, which was not his father yet lay down and take up mortality?

[Adomini22]

Good question. But why did Jesus state it in the Bible... or better said, take a look at John 5:19 and John 8:28. That is understood, at least by me anyways, that all that Jesus does, he has seen his father do. Am I right? Maybe the answer to this question is related to the answer of your question. LDS doctrine states that there was a pre-existence (a life, if you will) before we came down to this earth. Maybe it was then?

[Dr T]

Hi Adomini,

Thanks for the verses. The second one is when they were asking (repeatedly) "Who are you?" Jesus was telling them who he was. When he is lifted to the cross, they will know. Both verses show that Jesus was not making his decisions on his own but being submissive to the father. Carrying out his plan. Again, if it requires development to become a god and you are saying that prior to becoming a god, God took the role of a savior then it would have preceded his existence as a spirit child (in your belief). That's the reason I was saying it doesn't make sense to me. I'm familiar with the concept of a preexistance in LDS belief. Thanks for your thoughts Adomini. :)

[LionHeart]

Well said Nate. God our Father was once a Savior to his Fathers spiritual children. Journal of Discourses say that Jesus did all that he saw his Father do... and what was that? Come down, take up mortality (and a body, which was needed) and lay down his life as a sacrifice.

See that's my problem...the theory is based on one statement by Jesus in the NT, and Jesus doesn't mention his atonement in connection with this statement. I guess we'll find out someday.

But was it based on one statement alone? After all, it was Joseph Smith himself who made this statement in his discourse on the Godhead. If one is to believe that he was a true prophet, who is to say that he was not inspired in that statement? After all, is not the bible merely a collection of the words and actions of divinely inspired men? If Joseph Smith was a true prophet, then why should his teachings carry any less weight than the teachings of the ancient prophets?

L.H.

[CrimsonKairos]

I dunno. I just don't think it's true. 'S all I got.

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

I'm in agreement with CK here. Doesn't have the feel of correct doctrine. Can't explain, really.

[Adomini22]

Ok, thanx for your thoughts, guys. I have a question that popped in my head while reading your posts. Is Jesus's sacrifice vicarious (like Baptisms for the dead vicarious)? I mean, it spans all time and all creatures, or does it just relate to this earth where we dwell? I have heard some things, but before I spout off my mouth, I would like to know what others have deduced. The atonement covers all, doesnt it? Even though it happened like, 1,974 years ago? (please dont make fun of my math..... it happened in the year 0033.)

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

I always thought it was just for this earth.

[Adomini22]

ok, so does that include all living things on this earth besides humans?

[Nate]

Same, but the effects to us will be eternal.

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

I think animals and such are like little children - they get ressurection for free like the rest of us, but don't need the atonement.