Can you do things intentionally and hope they will be forgiven?

[Guest ghostwind]

What would you think about that: ...Ich sagte: "Also, wenn das so ist, dann muss ich noch schnell eine Bank überfallen gehen, und nach allen Mitteln der Kunst sündigen...weil ja schließlich die Taufe all meine Sünden reinwäscht...wo soll ich unterschreiben??:-) Ich fand es lustig, sie weniger....!!! Sie sagten, wie großartig es wäre, wann ich am Sonntag zum Gottesdienst kommen könnte. (source: [Link removed by moderating staff. Please see site rules regarding links. Thanks! --JAG])

I've just read the above statement in a German forum. And it's about a person (female) reporting about her experiences with the Missionaries who she has been in contact with one or two weeks ago. She is telling how things are proceeding. She's mentioning that she was invited to the parish hall and told the Elders, that she better should take the opportunity for robbing a bank because all her sins were forgiven by getting baptised, anyway.

I would like to ask for some answers on the following question: can you deal with God and do things intentionally, in expectation that all the misdoings you commit will be forgiven, anyway, at the moment of your baptizsm?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Just_A_Guy
Removed link.

[Guest gopecon]

Baptism does not cleanse the unrepentant, nor does it absolve one of criminal liability. Willful sins can be forgiven - but it is harder to change a rebellious heart than it is to change a mistake prone one.

[Wingnut]

You can hope, but the Lord looketh upon the heart, and knows our intents. I think that if we deliberately choose to sin, with an "eh, I can repent later" attitude, He might still forgive us, but our repentance for the offense might be more rigorous than expected.

[Just_A_Guy]

She's mentioning that she was invited to the parish hall and told the Elders, that she better should take the opportunity for robbing a bank because all her sins were forgiven by getting baptised, anyway.

I'm going to guess that this was a joke told by a socially awkward American kid to a German, that lost something in the translation/cultural shift.

Christ's atonement is powerful, so sure--you can, down the road, get forgiveness for premeditated and intentional sins.

But it's a heck of a lot more painful.

[Vort]

She's mentioning that she was invited to the parish hall and told the Elders, that she better should take the opportunity for robbing a bank because all her sins were forgiven by getting baptised, anyway.

I would like to ask for some answers on the following question: can you deal with God and do things intentionally, in expectation that all the misdoings you commit will be forgiven, anyway, at the moment of your baptizsm?

I agree with JaG that this was a silly joke. No, baptism is not a magical rite the -- *poof!* -- washes away sin. That is not how the human spirit functions. Baptism is a sacred rite, and a necessary covenant, but it is not "magical".

[Traveler]

First off - I do not understand how it is a person can do something that they do not intend to do???? I understand that a person can do something that will have consequences that they really did not understand - but that is a different question.

Part of repentance is a change of heart and mind. Yes someone could rob a bank prior to baptism and have that sin washed away with baptism - but repentance would require that all thing gained by robbing the bank be returned in order to complete one's repentance and have that sin washed away. Therefore there is nothing to be gained in robbing the bank. In fact as we come to understand repentance - robbing the bank could derail our repentance process causing us to lose the prompting of the Holy Ghost and become subject of unclean spirits tempting us. Which in my mind is more probable than our ability to continue on with our intended baptism and cleansing.

In essence it is a very evil plan, intention and lie that most certainly result in sadness, bondage and failure.

The Traveler

[Guest ghostwind]

I'm going to guess that this was a joke told by a socially awkward American kid to a German, that lost something in the translation/cultural shift.

Christ's atonement is powerful, so sure--you can, down the road, get forgiveness for premeditated and intentional sins.

But it's a heck of a lot more painful.

Maybe she was joking, but it was authentically taken from the German forum I mentioned. But sorry I forgot about the rules concerning links. Nevertheless, she reported about her experiences with the missionaries and she jested a bit about the question of atonement and baptism while she was having a meeting with the Elders.

I've read all the answers considerately and thank everyone here for his quick reply. Gives me some impulsion for thinking about this question more deeply.

[pam]

I have sent the link to a admin on another lds site who is from Germany to get her take on the link.

[bytebear]

1 Corinthians 11:29

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

3 Nephi 18:29

29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

I imagine the same is for baptism.

Moroni 6:2

2 Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins.

[Martain]

For some there may be the concept that in baptism all of your sins are washed away through the Atonement of Christ.

This is true.

Yet to say that we can deliberately sin knowing that upon baptism we will simply be forgiven is false for it excludes the doctrine of repentance.

First Article of Faith:

First faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Second, repentance.

Third baptism by immersion for the remission of sins.

Fourth, laying on of hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Part of proper repentance is striving to provide restitution.

Who is truly repentant:

Jack who stole a car yet get's baptized without seeking forgiveness from the victim or returning what they stole.

James who stole a car yet returned it pleading for forgiveness and mercy willing fully to suffer the consequences of man's law for his crime?

D&C 58:43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Someone who intentionally sins with the intent to repent later is sinning against the greater light. Such has greater consequences and is harder to repent of in a similar manner to how stealing a chocolate bar is easier to repent of than committing adultery.

[wilco5]

I think we get in the mindset in the church that we have to repent of our sins individually. While it is true that we must make right what we have done wrong, repentance itself is an overall process. If we are sinning intentionally, we aren't repenting. The definition of repentance is to stop sinning intentionally and turn our hearts to God. So yes we can repent after sinning intentionally. In fact, that is the very purpose of repentance. But the sooner we turn our hearts to God, the sooner we will receive the peace repentance and the atonement bring.

Edited March 5, 2013 by wilco5
clarification

[SF_Giants66]

Just for clarification, are you talking about sinning with the intention of repenting for it later?