Temple Recommends And Tattoos

[CrimsonKairos]

Biz, it may seem ridiculously anal retentive for us to have such strict standards about the temple and what is allowed there, but from the LDS point of view, the temple is the closest place on earth to God's presence. It is the holiest place on earth for us.

It's like Mt. Sinai, or the tabernacle of the Old Testament, et al...

Just so you know, attending the temple and working at the temple involve different standards. It is appropriate that those who represent Christ adhere to the best, highest and brightest of standards, even if they seem unnecessarily strict or stupid to anyone else.

Worthy of note too is that we believe Jesus has revealed or approved the standards of temple attendance, so while I can appreciate a lil' sarcasm now and then, I'm not comfortable mocking these rules in particular. :) Nothing personal, just wanted to say that.

[Maureen]

Biz, it may seem ridiculously anal retentive for us to have such strict standards about the temple and what is allowed there, but from the LDS point of view, the temple is the closest place on earth to God's presence. It is the holiest place on earth for us.

It's like Mt. Sinai, or the tabernacle of the Old Testament, et al...

Just so you know, attending the temple and working at the temple involve different standards. It is appropriate that those who represent Christ adhere to the best, highest and brightest of standards, even if they seem unnecessarily strict or stupid to anyone else.

Worthy of note too is that we believe Jesus has revealed or approved the standards of temple attendance, so while I can appreciate a lil' sarcasm now and then, I'm not comfortable mocking these rules in particular. :) Nothing personal, just wanted to say that.

BIZ: Can you be a veil worker if you are fat? Cuz THAT would be a violation of the WofW (or rather, it SHOULD be). Much more serious violation of the body, and we all know that the body is a "Temple" and we are not to "defile" them. Being fat is a bodily defilement, don'tcha think?

I'm curious about BIZ's question that wasn't really answered yet. Can someone who would be considered over-weight (fat) be a temple worker?

M.

[Guest MrsS]

I'm curious about BIZ's question that wasn't really answered yet. Can someone who would be considered over-weight (fat) be a temple worker? M.

Yes Maureen, if you are fat or obese you can still be a Temple worker. As well as mentally challanged - they work in the cafeteria, janitorial, laundry and groundskeeping. Those who have artificial limbs, hearing aids, glasses, false teeth, body odor, bad breath and dandruff also can be Temple Workers, as well as those who are confined to wheelchairs, leg braces, etc.

Biz's question was dissing the LDS, as far as I am concerned I am answering you and not her. She deserves no answer.

[Adomini22]

Yeah, tell it like it is MrsS!! I am with you 100%.

[shanstress70]

I mean no disrespect, but am really curious. Jesus had long hair and facial hair, according to all the depictions I've seen of Him. So, are you telling me that He would not be allowed to be a temple worker? Seems like if it's good enough for Him, it should be good enough for you guys.

[Guest bizabra]

I am sorry if you feel "dissed". However, CHURCH members always say it is a "bodily defilement" of our precious earthly "temple" to have piercings or tattoos, yet no-one ever considers being overweight to be a "defilement". It's just weird!

Why not simply admit that the reason for looking down on tattoos or peircings is because your leader told you not to? Why the need to trot out a bogus reason? If it really was because it "defiles" the body, then everything that defiles the body would or should also matter.

I put this in the same category as the WofW. It is always being justified as a "health code", when in fact, it really isn't. Why not just admit it is an obedience test and be good with that?

I think it would be more honest to simply admit the truth, which is that you refrain from tattoos, peircings, coffee, tea, and booze because you are told not to do these things by your leaders. Stop with the justifications! I would respect that, but I have no patience with prevarication.

[shanstress70]

I put this in the same category as the WofW. It is always being justified as a "health code", when in fact, it really isn't. Why not just admit it is an obedience test and be good with that?

I think it would be more honest to simply admit the truth, which is that you refrain from tattoos, peircings, coffee, tea, and booze because you are told not to do these things by your leaders. Stop with the justifications! I would respect that, but I have no patience with prevarication.

In all fairness, Biz, I have seen several LDS posters here say that it's based on obedience, and that they would follow the WoW whether or not it had health benefits.

[Latter Days Guy]

I am sorry if you feel "dissed". However, CHURCH members always say it is a "bodily defilement" of our precious earthly "temple" to have piercings or tattoos, yet no-one ever considers being overweight to be a "defilement". It's just weird!

Why not simply admit that the reason for looking down on tattoos or peircings is because your leader told you not to? Why the need to trot out a bogus reason? If it really was because it "defiles" the body, then everything that defiles the body would or should also matter.

I put this in the same category as the WofW. It is always being justified as a "health code", when in fact, it really isn't. Why not just admit it is an obedience test and be good with that?

I think it would be more honest to simply admit the truth, which is that you refrain from tattoos, peircings, coffee, tea, and booze because you are told not to do these things by your leaders. Stop with the justifications! I would respect that, but I have no patience with prevarication.

Please DON'T feed the

[Shade]

yes, please don't feed the pagan gods...

[shanstress70]

I mean no disrespect, but am really curious. Jesus had long hair and facial hair, according to all the depictions I've seen of Him. So, are you telling me that He would not be allowed to be a temple worker? Seems like if it's good enough for Him, it should be good enough for you guys.

Just curious about this... trying again to get an answer.

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

Shan, I think it has more to do with the culture. Whether we acknowledge it or not, we all have prejudices. We make judgements about a person based on his appearance. Is this person a fine, upstanding, trustworthy, contributing member of society? Is he a rebel with a bad attitude? In Jesus' day, fine, upstanding, trustworthy, contributing members of society wore long hair and beards - Jesus looked the part. I believe if Jesus were to come to earth to live among us now, he would adopt clean-cut, conservative hairstyle, dress and grooming, and fashion, because that's what we (collectively, not neccesarily individually) expect in a leader.

Now, is this prejudice accurate? I believe it is changing in our culture, swinging back a bit, but it is reasonably valid still.

Is the prejudice OK? Not really. Each person should strive to accept others as they are, but since we are imperfect in that way, "dressing the part" is important to being accepted,

Should a person conform to others' standards? Well ask yourself this: at the basic, deep down level, why are you interested in looking so different from others? Is it to get attention? That's not modest. Is it to rebel? Against what? Is your dress and apearance the best way to change the things you don't like about society?

I think when attitudes are examined, a person who dresses outside of society's expectations for a "good" citizen is not entirely comfortable being "good." A requirement to dress within certain norms is like a test to see if a person is willing to be a "good" citizen of whatever the specific society is.

[shanstress70]

I believe if Jesus were to come to earth to live among us now, he would adopt clean-cut, conservative hairstyle, dress and grooming, and fashion, because that's what we (collectively, not neccesarily individually) expect in a leader.

Thanks for sharing your take on the subject, MoJ. I have to say that I totally disagree about Jesus adopting a look that some people on earth think is the proper look, if He were to come today. I don't think he cares one way or the other. As far as dressing a certain way to get attention, you could say that for dressing in 'Sunday best'. Someone in jeans and a t-shirt wouldn't get as much attention as someone in a nice dress or suit, for example, if they are out and about.

Even when I was LDS I disagreed with all this white shirt and tie, clean cut, dresses only code. I feel really strongly that Jesus just wouldn't care what we wore, or whether we wore our hair long or short. There are so many important things to concern ourselves with, that I think this is a waste of energy.

[Guest bizabra]

<div class='quotemain'>

I am sorry if you feel "dissed". However, CHURCH members always say it is a "bodily defilement" of our precious earthly "temple" to have piercings or tattoos, yet no-one ever considers being overweight to be a "defilement". It's just weird!

Why not simply admit that the reason for looking down on tattoos or peircings is because your leader told you not to? Why the need to trot out a bogus reason? If it really was because it "defiles" the body, then everything that defiles the body would or should also matter.

I put this in the same category as the WofW. It is always being justified as a "health code", when in fact, it really isn't. Why not just admit it is an obedience test and be good with that?

I think it would be more honest to simply admit the truth, which is that you refrain from tattoos, peircings, coffee, tea, and booze because you are told not to do these things by your leaders. Stop with the justifications! I would respect that, but I have no patience with prevarication.

Please DON'T feed the

BIZ: I'm not a troll. I've been a member of this board since 2003. I was Born in the Covenant. 14 mormon pioneers in my ancestry. Card carrying membr of the Daughters of Utah Pioneers.

[StrawberryFields]

Yup, Biz is right, she has been here a long, long, time. B)

[Latter Days Guy]

Yup, Biz is right, she has been here a long, long, time. B)

That may be so but it doesn't mean she isn't trolling in this thread.

[john doe]

Nah, she's not trolling, she's just being herself. She doesn't believe and she ridicules you for believing. It's what she does.

[Guest bizabra]

Maybe it seems like ridicule to you, but I'm simply pointing out (in this thread at least) the apparent inconsistancies in the "no tattoos or piercings allowed 'cuz your body is your temple" thing and the fact that overweight persons are NOT somehow also "defiling" their bodies.

Either the body is a temple and must be kept as perfect as possible, or it is not, and the injunctions against tattoos and piercings are really just discrimination in disguise.

Am I wrong? Show me how I am wrong. At least admit that you would avoid tattoos and piercings SIMPLY because the prophet says to do so and don't try to justify it in the name of the body being a "temple".

Just be HONEST!

[a-train]

The Word of Wisdom demonstrates the LORD's concern for not only our eternal welfare, but our temporal needs as well. I think most of the LDS people believe that disregard for one's own health in any way is a violation of the Word of Wisdom. Over-eating, under or over-sleeping, working too hard, any number of things can present health issues. Excessive chocolate-chip cookies could violate the WOW. The Lord simply wants us all to be aware of this and look out for the physical welfare of our family and friends.

Allthough not by commandment, a portion of the WOW has now been deemed a necessary minimum; that of abstinence from alcohol, coffee, tea, tobacco, and harmful drugs. Since its arrival, believers in this revelation have dealt with criticism and disbelieving arguements. And though we might or might not have a medical or scientific explanation for the various items, be assured that faithfully following the LORD's counsel will bring blessings we many not yet understand. It was with this faith that believers have practiced the WOW over the years and with this faith they do now.

The miracle and the need for the revelation in D&C 89 is that we have been warned by the LORD against "evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days".

Indeed, the masses are finally beginning to believe that the tobacco industry has been operated by men conspiring to defraud the people of their money and their health for many decades. (Tobacco related death in the U.S. is currently believed to be more than homicide, suicide, auto crashes, and aids combined; over 1200 a day on the average). However, there are teams of paid promoters in every American bar-scene giving out free cigarettes to promote usage nightly (I have a friend that worked as one) even though tobacco related deaths account for over 18% of U.S. deaths annually.

It is also interesting that the technology of motorvehicles advanced to accel mankind to amazing new speeds in just a generation or two since the revelation. By the time Joseph's Smith's grandson William Wallace Smith was old enough to drive in the early 20th century, alcohol related auto crashes had already started killing. The Prophet's great grandson, Wallace B. Smith would live to see alcohol companies and alcoholism flourish bringing alcohol-related auto accidents to over 45 deaths a day and total alcohol related deaths to over 233 a day, or 85,000 a year in the U.S. alone.

Although this information is a compelling affirmation of the wisdom of the LORD and the authenticity of His Prophet, it is not the basis for faith, but another confirmation of it.

-a-train

[MaidservantX]

biz, I can't speak for everyone, but just how I see it, there is an underlying presumption that we are obeying and it doesn't need to be said out loud, but then 'on top of that' we are trying to understand because we are allowed to try to figure out what the Lord means by it. It doesn't (always) mean we are trying to justify it.

By the way, to me I do NOT obey 'because my church leaders told me to do it', lol. I HAVE made promises -- that is a big difference to me. I made these promises, or at least confirmed them in my heart, based on a great deal of thought and experience. Will I find out I have my ladder up the wrong wall with these promises? That I have made these promises with a non-existent person or being? Actually, in my case, I already have found out about this Person -- his effect on my life is actual and external to my own mind. I trust this person (Jesus Christ). So I have promised to do what he's asked me to do. However do you know how many conversations I've had with my Father in heaven that go something like this: "I'm not sure I can do this . . ." "This doesn't make sense to me . . . " "Does this really come from you . . .".

I don't refuse to turn on the faucet to get water, or refuse to flush the toilet just because I didn't put the plumbing in myself nor do I wait to get the benefit of the faucet and water until I can learn every single thing about the plumbing. Commandments work the same way. I have the opportunity of applying them in my life if I desire without understanding all about them, and I still get the 'water' from them. If I AM interested in the plumbing, my Father is more than happy to show me all about it.

Personally, I think describing tattooing and piercing as 'defilement' is a little strong. After all, we are allowed to pierce our ears, no? But then we've been asked not to have more than one earring hole (women). I personally enjoy long hair and an earring or even two in a man; I would allow my son to pierce his ear if he desired EXCEPT we have been asked not to and I have promised to obey. The obedience gives me joy and benefit, although I do continue to talk to God about this if it comes up in my thoughts. I don't pretend to have any conclusions on this subject, although I have come up with some possibilites of why having a tattoo (for example) is different than being fat (for example), at least at the mortal time and place we are currently in.

You know there are actually lots of examples of laws we obey in the world that have a surface symbolism that isn't wrong in and of itself, but it is a sign of a much deeper law that if we were to violate would have fatal consequences. My favorite of this is a traffic light. Is it really WRONG to drive when you see a red light? What's so SPECIAL about a GREEN light, that we are supposed to go when we see it? Is there any thing intrinsic in red and green lights that would account for this? Of course not. But they are signs, messages, keeping hedge around us so that we are safe from the negative consequences of a deeper, stronger law; most of us would do not consider for moment trying to be the maverick in the world of red and green traffic lights. What law does it represent? The law that no two spatial objects can OCCUPY the same space at the same time. KABOOM!!!!

[Latter Days Guy]

Nah, she's not trolling, she's just being herself. She doesn't believe and she ridicules you for believing. It's what she does.

And thats trolling. See here.

[Shade]

to troll or not to troll

to troll or not to troll

[kiwibabee]

<div class='quotemain'>

I believe if Jesus were to come to earth to live among us now, he would adopt clean-cut, conservative hairstyle, dress and grooming, and fashion, because that's what we (collectively, not neccesarily individually) expect in a leader.

Thanks for sharing your take on the subject, MoJ. I have to say that I totally disagree about Jesus adopting a look that some people on earth think is the proper look, if He were to come today. I don't think he cares one way or the other. As far as dressing a certain way to get attention, you could say that for dressing in 'Sunday best'. Someone in jeans and a t-shirt wouldn't get as much attention as someone in a nice dress or suit, for example, if they are out and about.

Even when I was LDS I disagreed with all this white shirt and tie, clean cut, dresses only code. I feel really strongly that Jesus just wouldn't care what we wore, or whether we wore our hair long or short. There are so many important things to concern ourselves with, that I think this is a waste of energy.

You both brought up a very good thought. I hadn't really thought of how Jesus will look when he comes again.

I don't think he is going to care what others think how he looks, but I think maybe like jcclsm that he might come clean cut, not because thats how we are dress, more along the lines will we know him if he is dressed like us. We all have the preconceived notion that he will have long hair and beard, but he could come with a missionary haircut. The bottom line would we know him no matter how he looks.

[Guest Soul_Searcher]

What If Jesus Comes Back Like That?- Collin Raye

Came to town on an old frieght train

He jumped off in the pouring rain

Everybody said he's insane

Just a low down no account hobo

He made his bed neath the county bridge

The city folks said hey thats not his

They signed a petition there gonna get rid

of that low down no account white trash

What if Jesus comes back like that?

On an old freight train in a hobo hat?

Will we let him in or turn our back?

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Hey? What if Jesus comes back like that?

she was born into drug abuse

She couldn't help what her mama used

It wasn't like she got to choose

Now she's laying there all alone

Got a monkey on her back

Nurses say they never saw a smile like that

Doctor says she might stand a chance

If somebody takes her home

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Two months early hooked on crack?

Will we let him in or turn our back?

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Oh what if Jesus comes back like that?

Nobody said life is fair

We've all got a cross to bear

When it gets a little hard to care

Just think about him hanging there

He came to town on a cold dark night

A single star his only light

The baby born that silent night

A manger for his bed

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Where will he find our hearts are at?

Will he let us in or turn his back?

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Will he cry when he sees where our hearts are at?

Will he let us in or turn his back?

What if Jesus comes back like that?

Hey, what if Jesus comes back like that?

Some of the comments made me think about this.

[Maureen]

At least admit that you would avoid tattoos and piercings SIMPLY because the prophet says to do so and don't try to justify it in the name of the body being a "temple".

Just be HONEST!

Speaking for myself, a non-LDS, I have no inclination for tattoos or other piercings (have pierced ears) because it does not appeal to me. I try to avoid pain whenever I can. The discomforts you have to go through for some piercings are just not worth it. My niece explained to me the process of piercing a tongue and it was not pleasant. I'm not one to leave my comfort zone - I have no desire for art on my body, especially face or extra holes for jewelry. I understand that others find it appealing but just because I don't doesn't mean I'm against it because the boss said no - some of us have no such bosses.

M.

[shanstress70]

I'm with you, Maureen. I am not one to put myself through pain voluntarily... I've never even given a tattoo a thought. But I'm not against them, per say.