Are more people leaving the church than joining?

[Guest]

I don't deny that people are unhappy. I just question what some people do about it. Do you assume that I've never felt the same way?

[pam]

easy for you to say, how often do you smile everytime you get a blow in your face with a sledgehammer ?

I dont like being negative but out of 4 years membership I have yet to see something that was not consistent of grief for me. there is not much positive left

You have no idea how many times I've had to put a smile on my face in the last couple of years when it literally felt like someone kicked me in the stomach. I can choose to let it eat me up and take it out on everyone else..or I can smile and hope that a better attitude will help me get over it. Those that know me well know about the heck I've been through in the last couple of years. It hasn't been pretty at all.

[Leah]

disgruntled , negative, cynical, offended... usually the words that are used to negate legitimate grief. if you deny me that now, you dont need to be surprised that people turn away from the church because you dont accept that htey are genuinely not happy and that there are things amiss

No one denies the fact that you're not happy. That's abundantly clear.

Do you want to wallow in it or do you want to change it?

The only person responsible for your happiness is you. The only person who can change is you. You can choose to stay in your misery or you can change it.

Are you afraid to let go of your misery and anger?

[Hemisphere]

well, leah, thank you for sayin that my and other peoples grivance is inconsequential to you.

you know, you can be all happy end addicted you want. it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving because you belittle them or disregard their pain.

in anyway, "being a victim" appears to be an anathema . I am not even going to merit this with further attention. if praying andstudying the scriptures are the sole answere to it then according to you, nobody should have cause to leave. because in your world apparently nothing happens that makes people go away . why dont you just proclaim it your private club to breed uberhumans that dont feel grief or pain that just suck it up.

I am signin off.

[pam]

well, leah, thank you for sayin that my and other peoples grivance is inconsequential to you.

you know, you can be all happy end addicted you want. it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving because you belittle them or disregard their pain.

in anyway, "being a victim" appears to be an anathema . I am not even going to merit this with further attention. if praying andstudying the scriptures are the sole answere to it then according to you, nobody should have cause to leave. because in your world apparently nothing happens that makes people go away . why dont you just proclaim it your private club to breed uberhumans that dont feel grief or pain that just suck it up.

I am signin off.

Oh my heck. Leah NEVER said that yours or other peoples grievances are inconsequential to her.

[prisonchaplain]

It's so ironic that I just finished a week of mediator training (conflict resolution). The one platitude I would offer is that Jesus commanded and modeled that our Christian faith be lived out in community. Prayer is powerful. Personal scripture study/devotion can provide deep insights. However, without love, it profits us nothing.

None of that answers Artic's dilemma. The painful answer is love...and Jesus demonstrated masterfully that loving can feel and be like death. Resurrection follows though.

[Leah]

well, leah, thank you for sayin that my and other peoples grivance is inconsequential to you.

you know, you can be all happy end addicted you want. it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving because you belittle them or disregard their pain.

in anyway, "being a victim" appears to be an anathema . I am not even going to merit this with further attention. if praying andstudying the scriptures are the sole answere to it then according to you, nobody should have cause to leave. because in your world apparently nothing happens that makes people go away . why dont you just proclaim it your private club to breed uberhumans that dont feel grief or pain that just suck it up.

I am signin off.

I never said anything of the sort.

I have not belittled you or disregarded your pain.

You are so focused on judging other people's behavior, what about your own behavior. Do you ever think about other people's pain or only your own? You want people to feel sorry for you, but you didn't even acknowledge another person's (Pam's) suffering.

I have been through some horrific things in the past few years. I could wallow in anger and self pity...blaming others for my misery, or I can pick myself up and be grateful for the gospel and the atonement and move forward.

I chose to move forward. I chose to take responsibility for my own happiness.

You can choose to remain angry and miserable, or you can choose to be happy.

And it is exactly that....a choice.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Leah

[Leah]

well, leah, thank you for sayin that my and other peoples grivance is inconsequential to you.

you know, you can be all happy end addicted you want. it doesnt change the fact that people are leaving because you belittle them or disregard their pain.

in anyway, "being a victim" appears to be an anathema . I am not even going to merit this with further attention. if praying andstudying the scriptures are the sole answere to it then according to you, nobody should have cause to leave. because in your world apparently nothing happens that makes people go away . why dont you just proclaim it your private club to breed uberhumans that dont feel grief or pain that just suck it up.

I am signin off.

Well.....actually praying and studying the scriptures ARE the answer.

Of course, having an open mind and heart helps.

[Guest]

Guy de Maupassant, the French writer, tells the story of a peasant named Hauchecome who came on market day to the village. While walking through the public square, his eye caught sight of a piece of string lying on the cobblestones. He picked it up and put it in his pocket. His actions were observed by the village harness maker, with whom he had previously had a dispute.

Later in the day the loss of a purse was reported. Hauchecome was arrested on the accusation of the harness maker. He was taken before the mayor, to whom he protested his innocence, showing the piece of string that he had picked up. But he was not believed and was laughed at.

The next day the purse was found, and Hauchecome was absolved of any wrongdoing. But, resentful of the indignity he had suffered because of a false accusation, he became embittered and would not let the matter die. Unwilling to forgive and forget, he thought and talked of little else. He neglected his farm. Everywhere he went, everyone he met had to be told of the injustice. By day and by night he brooded over it. Obsessed with his grievance, he became desperately ill and died. In the delirium of his death struggles, he repeatedly murmured, “A piece of string, a piece of string” (The Works of Guy de Maupassant [n.d.], 34–38).

With variations of characters and circumstances, that story could be repeated many times in our own day. How difficult it is for any of us to forgive those who have injured us. We are all prone to brood on the evil done us. That brooding becomes as a gnawing and destructive canker. Is there a virtue more in need of application in our time than the virtue of forgiving and forgetting? There are those who would look upon this as a sign of weakness. Is it? I submit that it takes neither strength nor intelligence to brood in anger over wrongs suffered, to go through life with a spirit of vindictiveness, to dissipate one’s abilities in planning retribution

That is pasted from the Marriage and Family Relations Participants' Manual. I just came across it while preparing for my lesson and it seemed relevant.

[Drpepper]

I think if your choosing between the chicken and the rabbit i would go the rabbit. It's bound to be faster and the chicken can't reall fly anyway. :)

[Magen_Avot]

Sorry, somehow this post got messed up. Reposted comments on next page.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[Drpepper]

Sorry, posted on the wrong thread... Feel like an idiot ...

[Magen_Avot]

ArcticTofu,... no one can know your pain, or what you are experiencing except you,... and the Savior... let me share my current favorite saying...

If we cold look into each other's hearts and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. ~Marvin J. Ashton

I have my own experiences that help me to understand where you are comming from, short of walking in your steps and I would say the following because of where I am now...

Life is about our own individual journey that, hopefully, will take us to Christ, if we go to Him. Nothing will make our lives better than finding love in and through Jesus. Even forgiving others outright will not bring the joy and happiness we deserve,... the love you deserve, unless we experience the love of Jesus with it (see PC's post). When we do... when we finally do, we know His love for others, even for those who cultivate and spread uncaring words and actions. Then all those remarks, all those actions will mean absolutely nothing to you. I have experienced this and I think that what the others are trying to say.

I'm not talking about staying in the church or leaving. I'm saying we are all in different places and sometimes we may need to temper our lives with Matthew 23 verses 1-3 especially, but what is really important is that considering where any of us may be we deserve the time needed to progress and the real barrier is our own feelings, emotions and attitudes. That may not sound too awfully true at times, but I have found it to be so. I have been allowed more than 50 years to get to this point and we all deserve as much time as it takes, but we don't all get it.

For you, right now, this is not about "them", or any of us on this forum. It is about you and your Lord. It will continue to be about you and your Lord where ever you are... in or out of the church, on or off the path to Christ, seeking or having found joy, happiness and the love of God.

I see our journey along the path that Christ marked, as a building with stairs that strengthen us and celestial windows from which to view our ascent. As we rise, closer to Him, our perspective of mortal probation changes and we are able to see more clearly the landscape of life, and therefore comprehend, ourselves and others more perfectly, more... like the God we worship.

He,... our Master, is calling all of us. It is He who is saying, "Come unto Me." Right where we are. My invitation to to turn to Him, such that it is, is feeble and impersonal, and for that I appologize.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[mrmarklin]

The sad reality is that ArcticTofu is correct. Most people that are inactive are that way due to social reasons.

I think using the word "offended" might be too strong for most, however. The reality is that if we don't feel comfortable in a situation we don't tend to stick around.

And for better or worse, the church is a very social organization with its own culture, norms etc outside of the formal doctrines.

[LDSVALLEY]

Nowhere did I say or imply it is easy. It is sometimes the hardest thing I have to do, I have felt ignored, abandoned, unwanted, confused, frustrated, angry and all the rest of it. There are times when I have to fight against myself to hold a calling or attend church. There are times when I have spent hours in voice or text arguing (with supporting proof) against things that Ward or Stake Leaders have done.

The things I put into the last post were not simple sayings like when world gives you lemons make lemonade. They are hard fought and hard learned truth's.

The reason I have the outlook that I do is that I considered leaving the church a few years ago to save my belief in the gospel, I won't get into how that made sense to me at the time. Someone nothing to do with the church planted the idea that punishing people by punishing myself was a concept too many people follow in life.

We are imperfect people and day to day we operate the church imperfectly because it is all we can do. The Lord is perfect and so is his church so in his time frame everything will work out perfectly.

I have many many frustrations with the church, there are times I would like to slap some leaders upside the head BUT most of them are trying their best and I do know the Lord has called at least most of them to serve. I try hard to keep in mind two things:

1 It might not be because they are the best leader but because they or we need to learn something. It may be for a reason we can not comprehend in mortal life.

2 I have served many years in auxiliary leadership roles and I know I screw up at times even with the best of intentions. I know I have ticked people off. And Heaven forbid I might be in a Bishop or Stake President's shoes someday. I know people will want to leave because I am flawed and I will stray things from the guidelines in trying to fix issues. I just hope that there is someone who will speak up to me when needed.

I don't know your situation nor you mine. Nor us anyone else. It does not matter. We are here to be tried and tested, we have been prepared for this time. Nowhere I have seen does it say the church is not part of that test, looking at the scriptures there are many times when the church was a good source of testing and trying.

Many times it would be easy to simply walk away. For ME there are five reasons I refuse to give into that seemingly easier path.

1 It is my salvation I need to worry about, and I refuse to let someone or something including myself deny me that salvation.

2 There might be one or more in the Ward who would walk away if I was not there. I am not saying I am anything special but we all influence others by association and to go to the eternities and find my mission was to keep someone on the path and I failed them because I failed myself would be horrible.

3 Joseph Smith and the early pioneers faced far harder trials and carried on. Would the Lord expect less from me? Should I expect less from myself?

4 I can choose to be a positive influence on others and perhaps in time that might help change things. If not then at least it will help change me.

5 Sometimes I am looking at things wrong and it is me who has to change not the Leaders, but it takes time to realize when I need to do that.

It is hard sometimes, believe me I have often contemplated walking away. The last two years financially have been extremely hard on our family from job loss. It would be easy to blame God for many things.

It is not about our trials it is about our salvation if we lose one we lose the other. It is as simple and as hard as that.

For my salvation, for my families salvation bring it on, I'll go toe to toe as long as it takes, I might get beat up and knocked down. I will grow weary and faint of heart at times. But I will win.

I hope and pray that you can find the strength and desire to keep fighting for your salvation, the church in spite of the moment to moment frustrations is true and the path to that salvation.

[M_T_E]

I heard the Lds was the fastest growing religion in the US but it seems like to members that more are leaving? Could someone clarify? Thanks

I apologize for not taking the time to skim through the 7 pages of responses, hard to do that on a cell phone.

Anyways, every religion has active and inactive members, as numbers grow for the general count that means there is an increase in active and inactive members.

Everyone I have known in my life who is LDS has always remained active and two have served missions.

[Lakumi]

I've never known any LDS people, met them here and there, nothing in depth

[M_T_E]

I've never known any LDS people, met them here and there, nothing in depth

If you ever do take the time to get to know them, I have found them to be some of the most sincere, genuine and family oriented people I have ever met. Lots of good hearts and minds.

That is part of the reason why I have enjoyed learning about the church so much, and well... the fact that my personal beliefs align with that of the Latter-Day Saints.

[mountain_trails]

The sad reality is that ArcticTofu is correct. Most people that are inactive are that way due to social reasons.

I think using the word "offended" might be too strong for most, however. The reality is that if we don't feel comfortable in a situation we don't tend to stick around.

And for better or worse, the church is a very social organization with its own culture, norms etc outside of the formal doctrines.

Exactly how I feel. I'm "active", but only because I have a firm testimony of the truthfullness of the Gospel. Church is a fairly miserable place to actually be.

The temple and general conference are awesome though! Yes, I do not enjoy social situations at all.

[Guest Patric7olicoe]

Even a cursory examination of the article you linked will show the active bias against the Church.

[Guest mntbike]

Why do Catholics believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church, founded 2,000 years ago by Jesus Christ Himself?

The Catholic Church is the only church today that can claim to be the one church founded by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago. Other denominations can trace their origins back to various human founders at a later date in history. (How old is your church?)

In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said to Peter, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” Jesus handed the authority to guide the Church in His name to Peter and the apostles, to be passed down through the centuries.

The Church is the body of Christ (Ephesians 5:23). Christ established only one Church—one body—so that there would not be multiple “bodies” with conflicting doctrines. After all, God cannot contradict Himself. Christ also wanted His Church to be visible, so all may see that the Church is indeed one, just as Christ and the Father are one (John 17:22 ).

This one, visible church, with divine authority and consistent doctrine that Christ established 2,000 years ago is the Catholic Church, the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). As Paul asks in 1 Corinthians, “Is Christ divided?” (1 Corinthians 1:13). No. That is not what the Christ intended. So, He established one Church.

[dahlia]

difference between .com and .org

OK.