Kids held back if not reading by 3rd grade

[pam]

New law proposes to hold students back if not reading by third grade | ksl.com

What are your thoughts on this?

[Anddenex]

Why wait until third grade, hold them back in first grade and second grade if they are unable to read. My thoughts.

[pam]

I think first grade would be a difficult grade. What about the kid that could be dyslexic? Sometimes it can take a year or two of school before this is discovered. If even then. Or the child that has learning disabilities that had not surfaced. I think by third grade many of these type things would come out.

[Vort]

I think parents should teach their children to read.

[Roseslipper]

I think parents should teach their children to read.

i agree, parents should teach there children alot of things

[Roseslipper]

I think children should never be promotived from any level if they didnt make the grade. All they do is hurt the child and some children do not deserve to graduate and when the children are just passed to the next grade over and over again, even if its for health reasons, they are only hurting the child in the long run. Education is very important this child turns into an adult needs the skills to have a career or decent job. Promotion not earned ONLY HURTS!!!! In the long run. We need to stop this!!!

[Gwen]

If a child can't read by the third grade you either have a lousy teacher or a child with disabilities.

I would feel better if they automaticly required evaluations for children that can't read by the third grade. They may need to stay back to learn what they missed (or you could offer summer school) but if you don't identify the disability then you aren't helping the child by holding them back. You just end up giving them more of what didn't work (isn't that the definition of insanity?). If no disabilities are found maybe teacher's job should be in question?

I respect teachers and know they have a thankless job. However, that doesn't change they have a job. Everywhere else in the world if you can't do your job you lose it to someone who can. Teaching shouldn't be any different. Every child can learn.

[Dravin]

Every child can learn.

Every child can learn, that does not mean every child does learn. Particularly given the teaching techniques and time the teacher is being called to use. Every widget can be within tolerances, that doesn't mean every widget will be within tolerances given a manufacturing process. If a failure rate is abnormally high, then yes, maybe the process or the worker should be examined, but the mere presence of a failure rate does not mean someone isn't doing their job. And that's for something with inanimate source materials, steel and plastic can't decide they don't like the widget making process. So sure, evaluate if the failure rate is acceptable and decide if it's the process, the worker, or the materials, or some combination of the three, but a child failing to learn doesn't necessarily mean a teacher isn't doing their job.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Dravin

[Maureen]

If a child can't read by the time they've finished grade 3 (third grade) then holding them back will not help. Those kids probably need to attend a literacy program, which all school boards should provide for their students. A literacy program provides smaller classes with a teaching style that helps students who can't learn the traditional way.

M.

[Jenamarie]

Every child can learn, that does not mean every child does learn. Particularly given the teaching techniques and time the teacher is being called to use. Every widget can be within tolerances, that doesn't mean every widget will be within tolerances given a manufacturing process. If a failure rate is abnormally high, then yes, maybe the process or the worker should be examined, but the mere presence of a failure rate does not mean someone isn't doing their job. And that's for something with inanimate source materials, steel and plastic can't decide they don't like the widget making process. So sure, evaluate if the failure rate is acceptable and decide if it's the process, the worker, or the materials, or some combination of the three, but a child failing to learn doesn't necessarily mean a teacher isn't doing their job.

Thank you! Both my parents are teachers, in a low-income area, and they are *awesome* at teaching kids how to read, however, sometimes they'll get a kid whose home environment is counter-productive to learning, and all the work in the classroom is undone when the child gets home. Hunger, abuse, instilled disrespect for authority, unwillingness or inability (no insurance) by parents to have a child tested for a disability or poor hearing/eye sight, instability in the home (always moving, inconsistent care givers, etc.), I could go on... The reason why a child can't (currently) learn is often far less black-and-white than "good teacher/bad teacher".

[Praetorian_Brow]

I started grade three and was in class for about a week, before I was pulled out and sent to a grade two class because I didn't know how to read. To this day, my father tells me, I just refused to read and my mother theorized that because I had been starved of oxygen at birth, my capacity for learning was much reduced. I was born at home and word was that only my brother noticed that I wasn't breathing, despite a doctor and a midwife being in attendance. The consensus was, my two year old brother had saved my life.

I only began to read, when I was assigned to a program where a single resource teacher (as they were called) is dedicated to a child. She patiently and systematically withdrew me from class and worked through the steps to get me to read. I do not remember her name, which saddens me. She even taught me how to blow my nose properly, which is laughable, but at seven years old, I was light years behind my peers. My father was always working and my mother was overwhelmed with raising seven young children on a farm, so its not all that surprising that I fell through the cracks.

When I did master how to read, in grade three, at another school and with another resource teacher, I outpaced all my peers in all subjects and was reading novels when they were reading comic books. I was chastised on many occasions to stop reading in class and pay attention to the lesson.

I believe the school system of marks and praise is broken. Marks are more important than learning and retention. It is really no surprise that our school systems are one size fits all given the funding is from the government and parents are increasingly less likely to have the time or patience to educate in the home. Everyone learns in a different manner as our learning styles are just as different as our personalities, but the sad thing is that with the meat grinder approach to learning, it has the chance of forever alienating the brilliant or struggling ones.

Combine my LDS upbringing, with forever explaining to my pupils why I am different, while being bullied for the sake of me being not like them, has at times been a handicap that undid all the effort that was required for me to read.

Social learning is nearly important as theoretical learning and both needs should to be weighed with the child in mind. However, letting the child learn cause and effect is at times more important than being just like everyone else. With funding more important than learning and free child care more important than learning, its no surprise that so many are pushed through the system.

Watch this please, as Sir Ken Robinson is brilliant.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Praetorian_Brow

[Gwen]

The parents don't need insurance to have evaluations for disabilities done. I'm not sure which part is federal law and which is state but I know here the school is obligated to "find and diagnose" disabilities. They are supposed to provide the family with that as well as any help the child may need at no cost to them.

If a child can't read by 3rd grade then they need to be evaluated for a disability, that is obviously not a "normal" situation. Seems like a pretty simple concept. It's part of the school's responsibility.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Being abnormal does not necessarily mean anyone has a disability. Most likely, they just don't conform to what you understand what median behavior is.

Education is not solely an institutions responsibility as the home is by far the greatest area from which learning can be achieved. In my personal case, I didn't attend school for nearly a year, as the intention was to home school me, which unfortunately did not occur.

I shudder to think that someone who didn't have the opportunity to learn or does learn in a different manner is labelled with a disability and then are subjected to the next common step of immediate medication. Even more dangerous is hindering them by allowing them to think that what we labelled them with, is an excuse to hold them back or allow them to hold themselves back from learning.

Certified educators should be extremely cautious in using their authority to diagnose anyone.

[Smudge]

Sadly some children slip thru the bet it isn't necessarily bad parenting or bad teaching or disability. Studies have shown that if children don't see their parents reading for pleasure (and not everyone likes reading) they wont read as well.

I think rather than holding back nurturing programs can be more effective. My friend works as a nurturer and basically what she does is to take children out of class and work with them in small groups giving them what they don't get at home be that telp with home work or fun activites etc. And it works.

[Gwen]

I guess I should clarify some things. Educators should not be diagnosing. That's not their job. But an educator can say "I see some cause for concern, this child should be evaluated by a qualified professional." That is part of their job.

second, We all have strengths and weaknesses. For every weakness we are given a strength. We are in this world but not of it. God created a lot of different ppl with a lot of different skill sets. God doesn't work in boxes. I don't see my learning disabilities as "disabilities". I see my my issues as learning differences that come with pros and cons. I suck as spelling and a lot of other "language" issues (I'm sure I annoy the heck out of ppl here with it. lol). But the same "disability" that makes spelling hard makes me good at other things (like watching 5 children at once lol). I love who I am and would not trade my "disabilities" for anything. I don't think god made me "broken" or "less". The world created a box for educating and anyone that didn't fit in their box they called disabled. I'm in this world and have to accept that. So yes I will say "I have learning disabilities". That's a product of accepting being in this world. I do not accept that statement as a defining moment for my self worth or value as to what I have to contribute.

Third, disabilities should never be used as an excuse to not excell. Having a disability does not always require medication, in fact most do not. It is a reason you have to do things differently to excel. The purpose in identifying children isn't so you can write them off and not put effort in. It's so you know how they learn so you can help them. The first step in anything is recognizing the issue, if you don't know what disability the child has you don't know how to help them learn.

Yes I agree the greatest education comes in the home. However, most learning disabilities are genetic. That means the parents have them too. If the parents were never identified and have no idea then they can't help their kids. I know many parents that were diagnosed after their kids. At first they would brush off the issues with things like "they just take after mom/dad". But then when the child is identified they start thinking, "wait, this explains a lot about me. I'm just like that." If the parent doesn't know should the schools (supposedly educated professionals) not assist in teaching the parents?

My son was diagnosed with asperger's at 11 yrs old. With all the learning disabilities in my family how did I miss that? It was one I was not familiar with. Someone had to point it out to me and teach me what that means and what I need to do different for him to succeed. We worked as a team, that's how it should be.

I'm not advocating unfairly putting teachers on the chopping block. However, I think it is unfairly putting kids on the chopping block to just hold them back without investigation. If a child is not keeping up "normally" then it should be investigated as to why. I only support rules to hold them back on one criteria alone if it comes with proper evaluations. There is a huge difference in the message sent to the child with "you didn't learn to read by 3rd grade so you get held back"... how many times do we do this? How does that break a child? vs telling a child "you didn't learn to read but look what we found.. this is why.. if we teach you this way you can learn. let's stay back a yr and catch you up."

By the way most of the world's "geniuses", the ones that have changed our very way of life, would be "disabled" by todays criteria.

[Guest]

Every grade level has minimum required achievement. Reading Level 1 books is a required achievement in 1st Grade (or should be). If they don't pass it, then they go to summer school for that subject to determine what's wrong and how the child can keep up with the minimum required achievement.

Not meeting the required achievement affects not only a child's reading skills but everything else.

This should be the same with all other subjects - Math, Social Studies, etc., for all grade levels. Each grade has their evaluations, you pass or fail and you get summer school to determine on a more specialized method how to overcome the road block.

Of course, this requires summer school funding... or RESPONSIBLE PARENTS.

[pam]

Here is Utah we have year round schools for most elementary so having summer school is not an option.

[Anddenex]

I believe the school system of marks and praise is broken. Marks are more important than learning and retention. It is really no surprise that our school systems are one size fits all given the funding is from the government and parents are increasingly less likely to have the time or patience to educate in the home. Everyone learns in a different manner as our learning styles are just as different as our personalities, but the sad thing is that with the meat grinder approach to learning, it has the chance of forever alienating the brilliant or struggling ones.

Combine my LDS upbringing, with forever explaining to my pupils why I am different, while being bullied for the sake of me being not like them, has at times been a handicap that undid all the effort that was required for me to read.

Social learning is nearly important as theoretical learning and both needs should to be weighed with the child in mind. However, letting the child learn cause and effect is at times more important than being just like everyone else. With funding more important than learning and free child care more important than learning, its no surprise that so many are pushed through the system.

I must admit I agree with these points in totality...maybe you and I could actually be friends, not just brothers....

[Guest]

Here is Utah we have year round schools for most elementary so having summer school is not an option.

You're missing the point. The point is - you don't pass until you mastered the minimum requirements of the grade level. Including first and 2nd grade. If you don't pass it, you get special instruction. If it's not summer school, then it's after school tutoring, or however your school system is designed. Just saying, but we don't have summer school, is one of the main reasons education is bad in America. Because, instead of finding solutions to individual learning road blocks, they simply point at the obstacles. It's a big problem here in my county too... education leaders who can't think outside of the box.

[rayhale]

In a Time article in August 2, 2010, ‘The Case Against Summer Vacation’ by David Von Drehle, points out that the whole point of summer vacation was to allow children to work on their family farms, now days, its so that parents, and kids, can have vacation time, with little, to no ‘work’, and it’s hurting the children’s education. I know it hurt mine, since I’m a slow learner, do you really expect me the formula for how E=MC2 works out? And, as the article points out, there is a whole industry that profits off of summer vacation, like day/summer camps, amusement parks, and in Virginia there is a statute that prevents Virginia from reconvening early in August known as the Kings Dominion Law, in honor of an amusement park north of Richmond.

I can’t find the article online L, and it’s too long to record here, but I feel the sub-title, of the article, tells it all, ‘It’s an outdated legacy of the farm economy. Adults still romanticize it. But those months out of school do the most damage to the kids who can least afford it.’

[Backroads]

I've taught first grade for a number of years... and I don't think that should be the mark for can/can't read. I've seen kids struggle in first grade... yet are fine in second grade. My own sister included.

Yet by third grade you might be able to suspect a problem.

I like the basic idea of this law.