Women and dating

[Lakumi]

hey someone else who writes, what do you write about? (you'd be surprised how few of those sorts I run into-the expressive word is a lost art form)

[lagarthaaz]

I did that twice (or similar to such). And I would do it again. My thoughts are that men do not communicate the same as women. So, I would rather be honest with someone and know exactly how he feels than risk guessing and hoping and playing that game.

Yes, it is embarrassing. But both times, the men were very kind to me in expressing their lack of interest in me romantically. I am sure they were embarrassed too. But, at least we all knew where we stood and we could move on. BTW, I still consider them friends, although our relationship took a decided and appropriate cooling off. That level of friendship with someone who is dating/married to another isn't appropriate (in my opinion).

That's lovely the men were kind to you, as my friend was to me. It also shows we were right about them being good people :) Actually I didn't say in my other post that he also said the words "... but no, I'm not romantically interested in you". I did appreciate that he was honest enough to say what he felt.

And yes, there's a lot to be said for knowing exactly how we feel about each other - but I did find the whole experience mortifying enough that I was never willing to repeat it!

[lagarthaaz]

It should be noted that men aren't immune to this. Rejection can be painful, this is as true for men as it is women.

Absolutely - rejection is no respecter of gender!

[FunkyTown]

That's lovely the men were kind to you, as my friend was to me. It also shows we were right about them being good people :) Actually I didn't say in my other post that he also said the words "... but no, I'm not romantically interested in you". I did appreciate that he was honest enough to say what he felt.

And yes, there's a lot to be said for knowing exactly how we feel about each other - but I did find the whole experience mortifying enough that I was never willing to repeat it!

This is something I've noticed a lot of women say:

They once were rejected, so they'll never ask out anyone ever again.

What's interesting is that if men thought that way, the human race would have died out. All men have been rejected before, and we just shrug it off and say "Once more in to the breach!"

Every man has his horror stories of being rejected, but we keep at it because... Hey - When you don't get rejected, it can lead to something great.

[Lakumi]

a lot more men are certainly thinking that way, and I don't blame them in this insane world

[lagarthaaz]

This is something I've noticed a lot of women say:

They once were rejected, so they'll never ask out anyone ever again.

What's interesting is that if men thought that way, the human race would have died out. All men have been rejected before, and we just shrug it off and say "Once more in to the breach!"

Every man has his horror stories of being rejected, but we keep at it because... Hey - When you don't get rejected, it can lead to something great.

It's not about being a man or woman - it's just different temperaments on both sides.

[Finrock]

Good Afternoon audreyII. Welcome to the forums! :)

Personally, the farthest I would ever go would be outright expressing to him that I would like to go out sometime. I know that it is 2013, but based on counsel from the brethren, and the instructions of my stake president to the stake as well as to me individually when I talked to him, I wouldn't do the asking. If another woman decides she wants to, that is fine by me and none of my business (unless if she is asking me out...and then we got problems...), but for me I wouldn't do the asking. It is helpful though to be pushed in the direction of "direct". I would be the one guilty of playing games, thinking that my signals are "obvious", but only obvious to me and the other females. Been there done that.

I'm going to be a voice that is counter to the counsel you are receiving in which you are being told that you are old school and you need to get with the times when it comes to who does the asking out and so forth.

My advice: Be true to what you feel is the right way. There is nothing wrong with your traditional view, either, of expecting a man to be the "man".

Regards,

Finrock

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Everyone has their own experiences and different outcomes.

When I was dating I was not a member. I found that any time I was the one doing the asking out it ended badly. It seemed they either thought less of me (desperate) and treated it like they were "in" or felt threatened.

I think the "threatened" part came about because I am incredibly shy/introverted so it would have come across very strongly due to me overcompensating. It probably didn't help that I had a successful career early and was in a high management position.

I also have the belief that whoever does the asking does the paying (though the other person should offer). I wonder if it was emasculating that I paid first date?

The whole dating scene is too complicated!!

[heatwaveo8]

I agree with some of the sentiment here that in an ideal situation, the man should ask out the woman. But I also agree that the woman should be willing to express that they'd like to get to know the man better. Then if they do this, the man should ask the woman out if he is sincerely interested, too.

I've had one occasion where a woman told me this, and you'd have no idea how special it made me feel and how much easier it was to muster the courage to ask her out for the first time, since I had felt the same way about her. Unfortunately a date never happened because of her busy schedule and my schooling out-of-state shortly thereafter, after which the feelings were lost. But I will always respect her for her willingness to let me know at that moment what she thought.

I also had another instance where a woman showed interest with a few soft touches on the arm. It was just enough to catch my attention, and then I went ahead and called her a few days later.

Every other time I've asked a woman out, it has been based on my feelings only, without having any clue how they felt.

This being said, I'll be honest and say that I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm 27 and haven't had a girlfriend yet, though I've come close at times. But I have faith in the Lord, that for my sacrifice I will be blessed with an amazing person who will love me for who I am.

Edited August 19, 2013 by heatwaveo8

[derblitzenator]

Women in general should not be asking out guys, except in rare instances where the guy has a passive personality. If he likes you, then flirting will be enough to get his attention. Despite what was stated earlier about games, it's significantly better to play moderately hard to get. If you just come out and say that you are crushing on him before the first date, it takes away the thrill of the pursuit and he may lose interest.

Dating has changed dramatically in the last 15 years. My advice to women is to look your best, take care of yourself, flirt with men you are interested in, and be open to dating different kinds of guys. You'll get dates just by being visually stimulating and showing interest. Some women think priesthood holders are above looks and value spirituality more. That isn't true! Just spend 5 minutes in a singles ward and you'll realize that the best looking women who flirt get 2/3 of the dates.

After a guy is lured into a date with you, then your spirituality and other good traits is what makes him want to keep you.

The direct approach is out. The indirect approach is in.

[Lakumi]

bah, singles ward... just dislike the sound of that

[Drpepper]

I need to have a man that I can trust to do the Lord's will, follow our priesthood leader's counsel and will lead our family well. Maybe this is "insignificant" counsel, but if He can't do THAT, when will he start listening and acting?

Theres this one guy i knew lived a couple of thousand years ago. Pretty sure he fits the description above. The rest of us, well, we just try our best.

[NightSG]

Women in general should not be asking out guys, except in rare instances where the guy has a passive personality.

Forget tradition. It's flattering to me when a woman asks me out, and pretty much makes my day even if I'm not the least bit interested in her. Even with no interest, I'll go and give her a chance to change my mind. One that I am interested in is absolutely guaranteed my full attention and best effort on the first date if she did the asking. As for active/passive gender roles, it's called asking someone out for a reason.

For that matter, it was even flattering when a gay man I worked with asked me out, though I feel no guilt about making an exception to my rule by not giving him a one-date chance even though he went about it quite tactfully. I did thank him for the compliment, and he turned out to be a really handy resource later. (He was the one gay man I've ever met who fit the stereotype of being a really sharp dresser, and could bargain hunt like you wouldn't believe. I saved a fortune on very nice outfits with his advice. We're talking Pierre Cardin and Ralph Lauren for maybe 10% more than I'd spend on WalMart casual clothes.)

[derblitzenator]

Forget tradition. It's flattering to me when a woman asks me out, and pretty much makes my day even if I'm not the least bit interested in her. Even with no interest, I'll go and give her a chance to change my mind. One that I am interested in is absolutely guaranteed my full attention and best effort on the first date if she did the asking. As for active/passive gender roles, it's called asking someone out for a reason.

My contention isn't that women should never ask a guy out, but that it's generally ineffective in starting a relationship in most cases. If the guy already is interested in the woman or the guy is just a passive guy, then it could be effective. Nonetheless, in most cases it's women making a last ditch effort to get a guy's attention who isn't interested.

A guy will step up the plate if a woman drops enough hints or just flirts if he is interested. If he isn't interested, well the date invitation is unlikely to sway his opinion.

The other aspect to this is that guys are generally the pursuers and being put in the opposite role is sometimes awkward. In the instances when I got asked out by women, I was out of my comfort zone with her taking lead. That combined with my limited interest guaranteed no more dates.

[Lakumi]

you know, I could often tell if I could have a functioning conversation with a person if I asked one simple question; do you have any hobbies?

And no hanging out with your friends or going for a walk isn't a hobby.

I remember a woman told me that, her hobby was hanging out with her friends.

I knew, that I would never have a meaningful conversation with that person, so we never spoke again.

I have a short fuse with people, and in my life I have constantly been surrounded by people I dislike intensely. Unless I am looking for someone to sleep with and... that it (and I don't, cause I don't really care), I won't waste my time.

[Quin]

That's lovely the men were kind to you, as my friend was to me. It also shows we were right about them being good people :) Actually I didn't say in my other post that he also said the words "... but no, I'm not romantically interested in you". I did appreciate that he was honest enough to say what he felt. !

LOL! Exactly!

I have a nonstandard rejection reflex.

Every time someone gets all _________ (fill in your own adjective or invective), my first response is laughter/relief.

Bullet. Dodged.

I would hate to have invested time with someone so not only so low class, but also dishonest. At least the ________ guys saved me the trouble out the gate by being honest and showing me their true colors up front. Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you for not wasting my time.

It's a win/win situation.

If I get a kind rejection, I know my taste is dead on, and that that's exactly the kind of decent person I want myself being attracted to. Good on me, and good on them. If I get a snarky one, booyah! Time to celebrate skipping out on misery!

Q

[Quin]

yep, call me old fashioned, but the guy should pay for the first date regardless of who asks...

Ya know... I was something like a year into my first posting when a guy friend found out I'd never been taken "out" out. As in I come from the land of Dutch Dating, and tended to either date similar guys or not follow the "three Ps" (mostly impulse dates, and pooling cash).

"That's it! We're going out for steak & dancing. Go shower. Put on something sparkly. My sister's would never forgive me if I didn't fix your "situation". Sheesh. Y'arent from Texas, that's for sure. You'd never put up with that kind of trash of you'd been raised right. What'll you put up with next? Ain't right."

ROFL

We had a lovely time.

And, I've found, that every gesture of respect by BOTH parties should be heeded

There's a big difference between showing respect for and buying affection, just as there is a difference between accepting graciously and using.

Q

[Dravin]

you know, I could often tell if I could have a functioning conversation with a person if I asked one simple question; do you have any hobbies?

And no hanging out with your friends or going for a walk isn't a hobby.

I remember a woman told me that, her hobby was hanging out with her friends.

I knew, that I would never have a meaningful conversation with that person, so we never spoke again.

Ah, you're a hobby snob. One of the definitions of a hobby is activities you pursue in your leisure time. Now, I can certainly understand you not finding those particularly engaging hobbies to discuss, and I'm inclined to say hanging out needs some sort of subdivision, but going from that to, "And thus we'll never have a meaningful conversation." is quite the snobbery.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Dravin

[Lakumi]

I fully admit I am snobby, I used to talk to anyone and everyone, until I found out I didn't enjoy it most of the time.

I am not a very social being, and I don't expect a relationship or anything (and from what I have seen they seem awful, it's only when I am around others do I really think about it, otherwise it never even comes to mind)

Maybe its people my age, I am still only 24, but I have a feeling some people never do grow up

[estradling75]

A guy will step up the plate if a woman drops enough hints or just flirts if he is interested. If he isn't interested, well the date invitation is unlikely to sway his opinion.

Lets examine the message the woman sends if she successfully flirts with a man... I think the message that the women sends is.. "I am interested in you... If you are interested in me, ask me out." If you approve of a woman flirting then you approve of a woman sending that message.

If the message is good then its only a matter of how it gets communicated. Flirting can be a very murky form of communication. Some women are good flirts, some men can successfully interpret flirting, but in all other cases flirting can fail to convey the message.

For example if a woman flirts with a man to express her interest and the man does not respond she is left in a confused state. She doesn't know if her message was unclear, she doesn't know if the man is uninterested, or just slow in responding. Now I admit I don't know a lot about women but I can't imagine that they wish to be in such a state.

If the woman takes a more direct approach in expressing her interest then it is much more likely that the man will respond in a way that doesn't leave her confused and wondering. Of course the downside is that if the answer is uninterested then the rejection is that much more clear, and no one likes being rejected. Still if you are looking for someone to date and potentially marry wouldn't it be good to clear out all the potentials who are uninterested and can only serve as a distraction to your thoughts?

[derblitzenator]

Lets examine the message the woman sends if she successfully flirts with a man... I think the message that the women sends is.. "I am interested in you... If you are interested in me, ask me out." If you approve of a woman flirting then you approve of a woman sending that message.

If the message is good then its only a matter of how it gets communicated. Flirting can be a very murky form of communication. Some women are good flirts, some men can successfully interpret flirting, but in all other cases flirting can fail to convey the message.

For example if a woman flirts with a man to express her interest and the man does not respond she is left in a confused state. She doesn't know if her message was unclear, she doesn't know if the man is uninterested, or just slow in responding. Now I admit I don't know a lot about women but I can't imagine that they wish to be in such a state.

If the woman takes a more direct approach in expressing her interest then it is much more likely that the man will respond in a way that doesn't leave her confused and wondering. Of course the downside is that if the answer is uninterested then the rejection is that much more clear, and no one likes being rejected. Still if you are looking for someone to date and potentially marry wouldn't it be good to clear out all the potentials who are uninterested and can only serve as a distraction to your thoughts?

While it's true you don't know what the person you are interested in thinks of you with 100% certainty, that's OK. It's a part of dating. You do your best to send the signals to the person you are interested in by flirting (for women) with them. Guys should also be watching body language before asking a woman out. If they don't take the bait, then just move on to the next guy or gal. Pinning them up against the wall and forcing them to reveal their cards doesn't work (hardly ever). As a general rule of thumb, guys don't want to be pursued unless they are very interested in the woman. In almost every instance, the guy just isn't that into her and that's why no date invitation was extended. Let's not overthink a process that has worked for millions of married couples where the men was the pursuer. That doesn't mean that the women shouldn't make the first move. I encourage them highly to be aggressive just not to the point of asking guys out (in most instances).

[gem2477]

So...I am 26 years old. I have never had an official "boyfriend". I was "best friends" with a guy before his mission, and a number of people thought we would get married when he returned (including myself), but came back and wanted nothing to do with me. That is the closest thing I have had to boyfriend. I have never been kissed.

I am a very rational person. I am not someone that lets my "heart" take over my head.

I am in a singles ward right now at a university that has a lot of LDS people. I am finishing up my BA and then going to move to a school closer to home to try to get into the master's program there. Being older than the majority of the guys and looking at the overall selection, I have resigned, expected, and almost "decided" to wait to look for a relationship until I move to where I plan on finishing my education. I am not in love with the "idea" of being in love. I am not worried that I'm not married yet. This is all in Heavenly Father's hands, it is His plan for me, and He may always be the only one who is not worried I'm not married yet. It is His Gospel, His ordinances and His law I am trying to obey. I know that I will have an opportunity sometime in this life or the next, I will not be denied any blessings as long as I live worthy of them, so I am not worried. I got over that a few years ago.

BUT - there is this guy who returned from his mission earlier this year. I know his family, as his family lives locally, and I do like them. I started to get to know him a *little bit* in Sunday School. He would sometimes be the only person to laugh at my jokes, and I have noticed him as being the kind of person I would like to date, but never considered myself to ever have a "chance" with him.

BUT - yesterday, I started seriously falling for him. I have started looking at wedding dresses online, thinking about him, about what our wedding would be like, what temple would work best, etc. I don't know what has gotten into me! Never talking to him individually not in class, I went up and talked to him after church. I don't know what is happening to me! I am at a loss!!! I don't know what has happened to my brain. Last night I prayed for guidance to know if this is something serious or if this is my brain just going wild on me. I woke up and within an hour he was all I could think of.

I am a firm believer in the man being the "man", and as it has been counseled by the brethren in the Ensign, in General Conference and by our Stake President, that he is the one who is supposed to do the "asking" on dates and whatnot. It is his job to court me.

So....what is an appropriate way to "get his attention" without being too forward? What is the role a woman is to play in all of this?

HELP!

Just talk to him, and let him know you are interested by saying something like "I would love to spend time with you / for you to call me." If he does, than he is interested. If he

doesn't he is not. That method puts it in his hands without making it awkward and puts the ball in his court.

Don't be fantasizing about marrying him just yet -- it will put expectations and pressure that you do not need.

[Pahoranite]

There is rarely only one right or wrong thing to do. If you ask and he says no, that doesn't mean you have to quit? Sometimes men will respond initially one way, sometimes impulsively and change there minds -- imagine that.