A better way to tithe?

[Backroads]

I am invested in the topic Backroads, because my daughters are being brought up in the church because my wife is LDS. It is the aspect of your faith that bothers me the most, so its a topic of great interest to me. I know from first hand experience how important it is for Mormon women to be sealed to their families in the temple and have a celestial marriage. You can review my personal threads to see how this has affected me personally. None of this can be achieved unless you are paying your 10% tithing.

Is it just the money thing that bothers you? As has been said, tithing is one of many commandments required for temple attendance. If I'm paying my tithing but not wearing my garments or smoking, I doubt I'll get a temple recommend.

It seems there is a thought difference in our view of tithing. I don't see it as a huge money concept; without making light of it, it's just another commandment, another part of my covenants. I see the tithing more in the spiritual sense rather than the financial sense. It's not the most important part of getting a temple recommend, it's just one of many, all equally important.

Why does the money bother you, yet you have little or no problem with the idea of making people wear garments or not drink coffee or alcohol and regularly attend church? One could argue all those things are as much extortion as anything else.

[NeuroTypical]

\Everyone has the choice to follow whatever spiritual path they decide, along with the rules that particular religion prescribes for them. But the choices aren't so simple when you have been brought up in a culture where the foundation of your existence revolves around your church.

This seems a little simplistic and, well, flat out wrong in a lot of cases. Believing members, whether they were born in the church or out of it, tend to have gone through a period in their lives where they questioned and wondered if the church is true or not. The choices are the same - believe, believe something else, or disbelieve. Become convicted of belief, or not.

Many people do not agree with or follow every teaching that their religion requires, but for Mormon's not following this principle the consequences are huge.

I think you paint us with a pretty broad brush we don't necessarily all deserve, Martin67. Are you talking about being disowned by friends/peers/loved ones? Peer pressure? Job discrimination? Mean looks as people drive by?

I went inactive shortly after turning 18. I experienced no "huge consequences" (beyond the impact my choice to not go on a mission had on my life's path.) Some friends and family members fretted and were concerned for 6 years. It didn't stop them from staying friends or family.

[LittleWyvern]

Yeah, I don't know that you should trust anyone who would suggest shopping at a mall.

I'm getting the feeling that a prophet can't make even a minor otherwise unremarkable suggestion without being hyped up and scrutinised to death by members and non-members alike. I mean, if President Monson suggested to somebody that he wanted to see a movie I'd imagine that something like this would happen at church the next Sunday:

Edited September 2, 2013 by LittleWyvern

[Leah]

Leah. I thought I had answered both your questions when I said:

1) "I I'm not an expert on church policy".

2) When I showed you that it was Thomas S. Monson who made the remarks "let's go shopping" as he cut the ribbon to the church's latest shopping mall.

But for your benefit I will go further by answering some questions you didn't ask. Do I feel it is wrong to tithe? No. In fact, I believe that everything belongs to God.

Do I feel our church could do more to help it's own people? Yes. I could elaborate on this but that's another topic altogether.

Do I feel that people who accept the lord into their lives but for whatever reason, can't afford to pay a full tithing, marry in the temple or even get a temple recommend will one day be denied the chance to sit with Heavenly Farther? No. It's my understanding that Jesus never taught such a thing. If he did, please tell me so.

I'm I an expert on any religion? No. Quite the oppersit I'm just a guy looking for answers and to be honest, with so much conflicting information comming at me from all around a very confused one.

Still didn't answer the direct questions asked. I am still not surprised.

[Leah]

We should just be glad someone didn't catch him at a birthday party saying, "Let them eat cake."

If we were commanded to eat cake, I am sure there would be those who would whine that they don't like cake, or they' want a different flavor, or fuss because their slice wasn't big enough.

[Guest]

We should just be glad someone didn't catch him at a birthday party saying, "Let them eat cake."

On the contrary, I kind of wish someone would. I love cake!

[Drpepper]

Im not taking the Op's point of view but sometimes i do wonder what happens to all the tithing being paid and how it is invested.

A few years ago the Church ran a 2 million dollar advertising campaign with billboards, adds, media, etc.

around my area. There was a lot of hype around it but after it was all done and spent it had little effect on baptisms or the growth of the church in this area. The money probably didnt come out of tithing but it was still funded by the church and im perosnally have wondered if 2 million dollars couldn't have been spent somewhere better.

We have a few members struggling for work and employment especially over the last few years yet there dosen't seem to be any specific employment specialist in our area to help people.

We have only recently had an LDS social services for members placed in our area.

There are many churches that have schools, hospitals, education programs, orderly care, mental health resources, etc, etc but those areas seem to be not the focus of the church atleast here.

I have sought of come to the conclusion that the church is more focused on the spiritual side of things than the temporal or at least in this part of the world. We have 5 temples and thats something we can be greatfull for.

[Leah]

Im not taking the Op's point of view but sometimes i do wonder what happens to all the tithing being paid and how it is invested.

A few years ago the Church ran a 2 million dollar advertising campaign with billboards, adds, media, etc.

around my area. There was a lot of hype around it but after it was all done and spent it had little effect on baptisms or the growth of the church in this area. The money probably didnt come out of tithing but it was still funded by the church and im perosnally have wondered if 2 million dollars couldn't have been spent somewhere better.

We have a few members struggling for work and employment especially over the last few years yet there dosen't seem to be any specific employment specialist in our area to help people.

We have only recently had an LDS social services for members placed in our area.

There are many churches that have schools, hospitals, education programs, orderly care, mental health resources, etc, etc but those areas seem to be not the focus of the church atleast here.

I have sought of come to the conclusion that the church is more focused on the spiritual side of things than the temporal or at least in this part of the world. We have 5 temples and thats something we can be greatfull for.

Do you think those churches that have schools and hospitals provide those services for free? If not, why is it important for churches to have such?

I get my care at Catholic hospital. They don't cost any less than anyone else, and if I need care but can't afford it....they don't care, they are as focused on the bottom line as anyone else. And as quick to lay people off.

[NightSG]

I'm getting the feeling that a prophet can't make even a minor otherwise unremarkable suggestion without being hyped up and scrutinised to death by members and non-members alike. I mean, if President Monson suggested to somebody that he wanted to see a movie I'd imagine that something like this would happen at church the next Sunday:

Exactly. I have to wonder how many of those traditions that nobody can seem to find a reference for started in exactly the same way. I wouldn't be surprised if a Prophet complimented someone on a particularly nice banana pudding and it suddenly became a staple at every potluck everywhere. Give it a generation or two and they'd be passing around little cups of pudding between the bread and the water.

Edited September 2, 2013 by NightSG

[Drpepper]

Do you think those churches that have schools and hospitals provide those services for free? If not, why is it important for churches to have such?

I get my care at Catholic hospital. They don't cost any less than anyone else, and if I need care but can't afford it....they don't care, they are as focused on the bottom line as anyone else. And as quick to lay people off.

I wouldn't expect any organisation to offer those services for free. My point was they offer those services.

Here is another simple example. In Australia the SDA church which started about the same time as ours have 48 schools, The LDS 0 would't it be nice to send my kids to an LDS school that way i dont have to spend my time reexplaining the false doctrine they were taught today at their current christian school.

[estradling75]

To do the work the Lord has given the Church the Church needs to be funded. If it is not funded you don't have churches or temples or utilities at those buildings, you don't have missionary program or a family history program, you don't have the leadership able to reach the world. So the work of the ministry needs to be funded.

Various churches try many different ways. The LDS church uses tithing. We believe that God could have used just about anything he would have wanted, but he chose a way that requires the individual to develop faith and sacrifice. As several in this thread have demonstrated it is a very good way of seeing who is willing to put their faith in God. Which understandably makes it a part of the package (along with other Gospel commandments) when determining faithfulness.

Now lets talk about administration of the tithing funds. We believe that the people doing so are called of God and are capable of receiving revelation from him on what we should do. Of course this is no different from any other calling in the church. For those whom have served in such many will attest that while they did receive guidance from God, many times we are left to do the best we know how. These seem to be learning and testing experiences for us.

So you have the General Authorities who handle the tithing funds, who are imperfect, who are still learning and growing. Like any other calling they are going to try to listen to the Lord when he gives them guidance and the rest of the time they are going to do the best they can. While it might boggle the mind that a 2 million dollar ad campaign might just be a learning experience, what is money to the Lord when compared to the growth of his children?

Given that this life is a time of testing... I think we will find that in God's view that these financial issues aren't so much mistakes or errors as they are tests, ways to winnow the tares from the wheat. We don't need to like it but we shouldn't let it distract us from what is truly important.

[Leah]

I wouldn't expect any organisation to offer those services for free. My point was they offer those services.

Here is another simple example. In Australia the SDA church which started about the same time as ours have 48 schools, The LDS 0 would't it be nice to send my kids to an LDS school that way i dont have to spend my time reexplaining the false doctrine they were taught today at their current christian school.

I frankly don't get your point. How does a church owning a hospital make a difference? It doesn,t make it easier for the church's members to receive healthcare, if they haven't got the money to afford healthcare, how is it better for the hospital to be owned by a church? The member still doesn't get the healthcare they need. And the church is making a profit from the hospital.

I can understand people wanting to send their children to a "church school". But only those with the ability to afford private schooling would be able to attend.

[skalenfehl]

I was reading through some of the posts on LDS.net and couldn't help but notice that some of the members are going through hard times. For example, one lady said "The last ten years, for me, has been especially difficult. I had a daughter die in a car accident, leaving behind her two month old son that I've had to help raise. My marriage of over 30 years is one of my most heart breaking trials. Poor health is taking a toll on me. Worry over finances keeps me sleepless at nights". Why is our church not doing more to help people like this?

I personally know of several people in our ward who are going through hard times, yet our church offers little or no support. For example, my wife and I, together with two other church members recently paid a utility bill for a lady in our ward who had her power cut because she could not afford to pay the bill and could not get help from the church. Is this right?

My question is this. Rather than pay tithing to the church, would it not be better to tithe to charity's who help the needy? I know fast offering is "supposed" to help such people but from what I have seen this is not always the case.

Ask yourself this simple question. How many people do you personally know (perhaps even faithful members of your own ward) who could benefit from a helping hand?

There was a time when our church needed our tithes but that time has long since passed. Today our church is more than self reliant. Is it not time we considered helping those who are less so? Perhaps our church leaders need to start saying "how can we help?" Rather than "let's go shopping!"

"Will a man rob God?"

You either believe the Lord or you don't. What the LDS church does with the money is one thing. That you choose to live the law of tithing is another.

[FunkyTown]

In England, we have an easy way to tithe: If you tithe regularly, you can set up payments to come off. If you tithe 10%, 10% of your net goes out from the pay and the government tops off the remaining amount to make it 10% of your gross.

Way easier than claiming it back at the end of the year.

[pam]

I think enough has been said. Thread closed.