Have we got it right?

[carlimac]

[quote name=anatess;

That's not true. Most countries outside of Europe consider marriages in churches (including the temple) as legally binding. Most countries in Europe recognize civil marriages as the only legally binding marriage. Most countries in the Middle East do not have civil marriages' date=' so only church marriages are legally binding (Muslim governments).

I'm not up on the latest governmental updates but I had a friend from France get married in the temple in Switzerland but they were required to have a civil wedding first.

[Backroads]

She's saying that she's perceiving from comments in the thread, that after the sealing is being completely discounted as a place/time to have things like non-endowed family inclusion, songs, flowers, and so on. Or in other words, what she's seeing in people's statements is that if you aren't having the hay bale experience before the sealing it doesn't count, even if you do it a million times afterwards.

Not what I intended in any of my comments.

Now, I'm fine with having the whole shebang at the reception--after all, many a (non-lds) church wedding have a solemn ceremony in a chapel or something and all the fun occurs at the reception.

I'm just interpreting carlimac as expressing the desire to have all of it in one single event.

[Dravin]

I'm not sure why everyone is quoting me, it is Anatess you want to be addressing.

[Guest]

I'm not up on the latest governmental updates but I had a friend from France get married in the temple in Switzerland but they were required to have a civil wedding first.

Note to carlimac: France is in Europe.

[Guest]

No not quite. I honestly don't know what she's saying because it doesn't reflect my thoughts at all.

Sure you can have flowers and music and dancing and food galore after the ceremony. This couple had a reception line and a big dinner for the guests and dancing under a huge tent. My other niece had an elephant carved out of ice. ( She was adopted from India.) I had a big reception including bagpipers root beer floats and apple pie. That's not what I'm talking about.

ALL I'm saying is that this non-temple wedding ceremony ( just talking the actual ceremony part) felt wonderful and warm and sweet and spiritual and inclusive with music and flowers and daddy walking his daughter down the aisle and a man/woman team to perform the ceremony. It all felt as valid and "forever" as temple weddings I've been to. They may not be sealed yet but I'm sure that somewhere in the eternities this union has the potential of becoming a celestial one.

So I went to the temple this morning to do sealings to try to remind myself of the words said that make a marriage eternal. Yes they're important. More important than all the fluff of my niece's wedding that made us feel so good. But I'm still wondering why we can't add a leettle more fluff to a temple wedding, just for ambiance and warmth and love and joy and ... Oh well. It's just the way it is.

By the way, I'm not the only one that felt that way. As I said before, a few other endowed women who were at this wedding felt the same.

And one more important thing to note. This isn't a Mormon vs non Mormon wedding thing. I've been to a couple weddings ceremonies in cathedrals that felt as solemn and " funeralish" as any temple wedding. More so because EVERYONE except Moi was dressed in black. I didn't get the memo. In fact, compared to these two cathedral weddings, temple weddings are a garden party in regards to warmth and ambiance.

I was under the impression that you felt that something is missing in a temple wedding because it was lacking a "hay bale". No, I don't mean just the hay bale but the family and walking down the aisle and whatever else you seem to think is needed to make a wedding wonderful.

The thing is... the wedding itself is the blessing of the priest. Everything else is secular fluff. Of course, secular fluff can give you all that goody happy feeling. It just so happens that the temple is so sacred that secular fluff is not appropriate inside it. But, you can have all the secular fluff outside it. So no, something is not missing in a temple wedding because... you don't conflate secular and spiritual stuff inside the temple. And yes, it's the way it is because that's how God designed the temple to be.

And this is EXACTLY why I feel God was wise in this design. Because... in this post right here, I am reminded that there are those (and I don't mean you carlimac) that do not feel that a wedding is complete if it doesn't come with secular fluff because they are so focused on the worldly things more than the Godly ones. Marriage is one of the most important spiritual ordinances. It makes or breaks entire families. When God commanded Peter to "Come, follow me"... he required that he leave all his secular fluff behind without a moment's thought.

[pam]

I'm not sure why everyone is quoting me, it is Anatess you want to be addressing.

Yeh I think backroads thought you were responding to her when you were actually referring to anatess.

That had me a bit confused too.

[Backroads]

Dravin's summary was more convenient to quote.

[Sali]

That's not true. Most countries outside of Europe consider marriages in churches (including the temple) as legally binding. Most countries in Europe recognize civil marriages as the only legally binding marriage. Most countries in the Middle East do not have civil marriages, so only church marriages are legally binding (Muslim governments).

Not quite correct. Most countries in Europe recognize marriages in Churches as legally binding. The only reason that Temple Marriage is not recognized in the UK is because by law, a marriage needs to take place where anybody has the ability to oppose the marriage if necessary (such as one of the marriage participants already being legally wed or other reasons). And public places include Church marriages too.

The reason they don't have a Temple in France is because Police have to access to any building at any time.

[Maureen]

The thing is... the wedding itself is the blessing of the priest. Everything else is secular fluff...

That's very limiting when it comes to different cultures and religions. Wedding ceremonies and rituals can be quite diverse with symbolic meaning.

M.

[bytebear]

That's very limiting when it comes to different cultures and religions. Wedding ceremonies and rituals can be quite diverse with symbolic meaning.

M.

And LDS belief create a "Mormon" culture which includes the ceremony of marriage.

[Guest]

My sister's children have started to get married. Since we have a huge family and can't all fit in the sealing room, I haven't gone to either of her married kids' sealings. And I'm okay with that. Since so many of us can't and they have a big circle of friends in and out of the church, as well, they always do a really lovely ring exchange before the reception. The fathers and mothers give some words of advice, the bride and groom have words for each other (sort of like vows, more like an expression of their love and joy), and rings are exchanged. There's a special area just for this. It doesn't take away from or add to the sealing, but it's a nice, inclusive part of the wedding day. I like it.

I can't say I can see how it would make a difference whether it occurred before or after the sealing, and I still argue that I haven't been to a sealing that felt stiff or joyless. Stuffy is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

[Traveler]

I just thought I would add something to the discussion. When my oldest daughter was married - she married into another active LDS family. I am a 5th generation LDS and she wanted a special experience when she took out her endowments the day before the sealing. She invited aunts, uncles cozens, siblings, grandparents, ward members and friends of both sides of the family to attend her session. There were so many relatives and friends that we had to reserve a special session.

At the end of the session entering into the Celestial Kingdom was indeed unique. Meeting my parents, brothers, sisters and children with my wife was a spiritual experience like none other I have ever experienced. The spirit flowed through both sides of my daughters family as the greetings became tearful solemn events of joy greeting each individual entering into the Celestial room. The symbolism with the spirit was unlike any event I have ever experienced leading up to any wedding I have ever attended. It was indeed a type and shadow of someday greeting friends and family all dressed in pure white beyond the grave. In all my life I have only know of one other person that experienced such an event. I am sorry that such things are rare.

The Traveler