Gun Control

[Dr T]

Talking about driving in different states, Utah drivers are the worst! in my opinion. They rarely "let you in," stop far enough back from a parking lot exit to let others out, rude...

[CrimsonKairos]

If someone's afraid of guns, don't own them.

Don't tell me I can't own them.

I think it's ridiculous that British cops don't have guns. To each his/her own. I lived in England for a year. Great country, great people. Couldn't pay me to be a cop there unless they gave me a "pacifier," i.e. firearm.

Ben and Outshined and a-train hit the bullseye (no pun intended...well okay, there was).

There are two philosophies about how to bring down gun-related crimes.

First, make guns illegal. Supposedly this would deter criminals from even acquiring--let alone misusing--guns.

Second, make punishments for gun-related crimes tougher. This would deter criminals from misusing guns if they saw that the axe comes down whenever they pull the trigger with bad intent.

The first theory is total rubbish. It only deters honest citizens from acquiring/using guns for whatever lawful purpose they have.

The second theory is sound and would work over a given period of years. Only problem is, our judicial system is too soft to ever make such a strategy work. However, if any state or federal legislature had the stones to make honest-to-gosh tough gun laws and then enforce them instead of plea-bargaining criminals back onto the street...then I think gun-related crimes would lessen significantly.

If gun ownership is ever made illegal for regular everyday citizens like me...I'm going to be an outlaw overnight because I will hide and retain ownership of any guns I choose to acquire. That, or move to a country with lower taxes and tough but fair gun laws.

Like Ben said: Gun control means using both hands.

[Traveler]

Outshined, on this topic I will just have to say I agree to disagree and leave the spin for another day. :-)

I do not know what to tell you but most likely I could make a device from stuff in your kitchen that could kill as many (or as few) as 20,000,000 Americans. I could even take it on an Airplain to my choice target. I talked to an FBI agent about this last summer and indicated that my concern is that we have just been lucky that most people are rather stupid when they decide to kill. My FBI agent friend agrees that the problem of safty is in reality an illusion.

The laws of this land do not allow us to do anything until a crime is done. I put my trust in G-d. No doubt some of my dear friends will suffer violence. No doubt guns and weapons can help for a while but the answer is not in the arm of the flesh.

The Traveler

[a-train]

Kansas City is a bank-robber town. I got a close friend (who IS LDS) doing time right now for bank robbery. Perhaps the fact that Jesse James is from these parts has something to do with it.

Anyway, the penalties for bank robbery are many times stiffer when the perpetrator uses a firearm in the act. Now, this is no secret because there are billboards and signs on busses blazing it all over town. My friend did NOT use a gun for this reason and he will see only 33-35 months. Had he used a gun he would have seen an additional 60 month minimum gun-crime sentence.

A crew of bank robbers who used to brag about their capers and spend big bucks in my shop told me they never use any guns for that same reason also. They all got caught a couple of years ago and I haven't seen them since.

This is a different subject but.....

What I can't help but think about here is the fact that our justice system seems to have altogether abandoned the notion of civil reconciliation. I had my shop get broken into a few years back and the idiots got time, but I still got nothing for the $600.00 damage they did. They call THAT justice? They take taxes out of my check to afford their prison and I get to pay the damage bill!?!?? Does this make any sense?

My mother who was widowed at the age of 25 got no reparation whatsoever when a man murdered her husband and left her with three children to take care of. The murderer has now lived many years in prison with food, a bed, climate control, cable television, a health care plan, and then some. Meanwhile, my mother and her three children were living in a 2 room house with no a/c and no healthcare at all while taxes from her tiny check waiting tables theoretically helped pay for the murderer's lifestyle.

The biggest issue is the fact that criminals never have to face their victims. They never have to repay them. They get off clean whether busted or not. This is why we have such a crime problem in this nation, justice has left the building.

Sitting convicts in prison to live off of the working people doesn't help the people or the criminals. We need to put these knuckleheads to work and the very first earnings they make need to go to their victims.

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

Sitting convicts in prison to live off of the working people doesn't help the people or the criminals. We need to put these knuckleheads to work and the very first earnings they make need to go to their victims.

Amen.

A side benefit might in fact be a decrease in crime. Why? Sure prison might not be as fun as being "free." But it's got creature comforts alot of people don't, as a-train said.

When the wheels of reformation are lubricated with the convict's own sweat, elbow grease and midnight oil, the results are dramatically different than when the criminal's hand is chained to the metaphorical piggy bank with free cable, three squares a day, and college degrees.

[shanstress70]

I will never own a gun. I will never have a gun in my house. The answer to protecting yourself from gun violence is not more guns. That will only make things worse. I don't even allow my kids to have toy guns. They are not as harmless as we think.

OK, then what IS the answer to protecting yourself from gun violence?

If someone comes into your house with a gun, what can you do? Absolutely nothing, if you don't have a gun. The damage will most liely be done before the cops get there. Alarms can possibly help, but not always, as the criminal knows that response time is not immediate.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect your family WITHOUT a gun.

[Aphrodite]

My answer: It is not THE answer, but it is an answer. Other countries are getting it right. In England I believe it's even illegal for the police officers to carry guns. Canada is similar. I watched "Bowling for Colombine" a few years ago. Yes, I know it's rated R, and I've repented for it already.

Ive been watching this news story on the shootings in Virginia along with the rest of the country with interest. As you say the_jason, we have it right somewhat. Policemen dont carry guns generally. However, in rough parts of the country (i.e where I live) they wear bullet proof vests as guns are very much around. You hear of shootings in London and Manchester sometimes. However, nothing of mass shootings on this scale. The police do sometimes carry these massive black machine gun type looking things lol at airports or in the town when theres a football match on. Other than that, they dont carry. We still use police horses over here though. I think that's cool lol. Its interesting to compare the differences between countries. I used to think we were fairly similar to the U.S. Since I've joined this site Ive realised our cultures are totally different-even the church.

By the way the_jason-an 'R' rated film- Can the Lord ever forgive you????!!!!

[Latter Days Guy]

I think it's ridiculous that British cops don't have guns. To each his/her own. I lived in England for a year. Great country, great people. Couldn't pay me to be a cop there unless they gave me a "pacifier," i.e. firearm.

The thing is though, the police in the Britain don't want to be armed. There is so little gun crime here, or the threat of gun crime that it's just not needed. I must admit that the one thing that puts me off visiting the US is the thought of all those people carrying guns around with them. It seems to me that not a month goes by without a fatal shooting spree being reported in the news from the US. The UK is a lot safer because we have such strict gun controls, I can walk down the street without having to thing does that funny looking bloke have a concealed handgun? Unlike the US we cannot legally have guns so therefore the chances of encountering someone with one is very small indeed.

<div class='quotemain'>

I will never own a gun. I will never have a gun in my house. The answer to protecting yourself from gun violence is not more guns. That will only make things worse. I don't even allow my kids to have toy guns. They are not as harmless as we think.

OK, then what IS the answer to protecting yourself from gun violence?

If someone comes into your house with a gun, what can you do? Absolutely nothing, if you don't have a gun. The damage will most liely be done before the cops get there. Alarms can possibly help, but not always, as the criminal knows that response time is not immediate.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect your family WITHOUT a gun.

If someone was to break into my house and they have a gun, then I wouldn't try to do anything. What I do know though, if I did have a gun and attempted to use it the chances of my family being injured or even killed are going to be significantly higher. Whats more important, loosing a few possessions or loosing your family?

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

I think it's ridiculous that British cops don't have guns. To each his/her own. I lived in England for a year. Great country, great people. Couldn't pay me to be a cop there unless they gave me a "pacifier," i.e. firearm.

The thing is though, the police in the Britain don't want to be armed. There is so little gun crime here, or the threat of gun crime that it's just not needed. I must admit that the one thing that puts me off visiting the US is the thought of all those people carrying guns around with them. It seems to me that not a month goes by without a fatal shooting spree being reported in the news from the US. The UK is a lot safer because we have such strict gun controls, I can walk down the street without having to thing does that funny looking bloke have a concealed handgun? Unlike the US we cannot legally have guns so therefore the chances of encountering someone with one is very small indeed.

<div class='quotemain'>

I will never own a gun. I will never have a gun in my house. The answer to protecting yourself from gun violence is not more guns. That will only make things worse. I don't even allow my kids to have toy guns. They are not as harmless as we think.

OK, then what IS the answer to protecting yourself from gun violence?

If someone comes into your house with a gun, what can you do? Absolutely nothing, if you don't have a gun. The damage will most liely be done before the cops get there. Alarms can possibly help, but not always, as the criminal knows that response time is not immediate.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect your family WITHOUT a gun.

If someone was to break into my house and they have a gun, then I wouldn't try to do anything. What I do know though, if I did have a gun and attempted to use it the chances of my family being injured or even killed are going to be significantly higher. Whats more important, loosing a few possessions or loosing your family?

It's not the possessions I'm worried about in the least. It's family members. People can be hideous, and don't value life. Intruders don't always come in your house, take your stuff and leave everyone unharmed.

[Latter Days Guy]

My parents house was broken into once. We were all asleep upstairs and didn't hear a thing. Fortunately the people who did it were caught even before we had woken up. Had we have woken up and challenged them they would have probably just run away. I think that is the difference between the US and the UK, criminals are more likely to make a stand instead of risking the chance of capture because they have easy access to firearms. It's very difficult to get a firearm in the UK legally, and can be just as hard to find someone to supply you with an illegal one. You cannot just walk into your local Wal-Mart and buy a weapon in the UK and I believe that that is a major problem in the US, the ease at which you can buy something that can take another persons life.

[shanstress70]

My parents house was broken into once. We were all asleep upstairs and didn't hear a thing. Fortunately the people who did it were caught even before we had woken up. Had we have woken up and challenged them they would have probably just run away. I think that is the difference between the US and the UK, criminals are more likely to make a stand instead of risking the chance of capture because they have easy access to firearms. It's very difficult to get a firearm in the UK legally, and can be just as hard to find someone to supply you with an illegal one. You cannot just walk into your local Wal-Mart and buy a weapon in the UK and I believe that that is a major problem in the US, the ease at which you can buy something that can take another persons life.

What's done is done, though. Now that so many people (good or bad) do have guns, there is no turning back. You will never get the guns from the bad people, so the good people sure as heck better not give up their guns. Otherwise, they will have guns when breaking into our homes and there isn't a thing we can do about it.

[JcDean78]

My parents house was broken into once. We were all asleep upstairs and didn't hear a thing. Fortunately the people who did it were caught even before we had woken up. Had we have woken up and challenged them they would have probably just run away. I think that is the difference between the US and the UK, criminals are more likely to make a stand instead of risking the chance of capture because they have easy access to firearms. It's very difficult to get a firearm in the UK legally, and can be just as hard to find someone to supply you with an illegal one. You cannot just walk into your local Wal-Mart and buy a weapon in the UK and I believe that that is a major problem in the US, the ease at which you can buy something that can take another persons life.

Criminals do not tend to get guns legally. 70% of criminals are convicted felons which by law can NOT own a firearm.

Nobody is going to convince anyone here otherwise and just listening to all the anti firearm horse crap in here is enough to shoot my blood pressure through the roof.

Read the other thread as all of your anti gun peoples have been debunked.

You will get my gun when you pry it out my cold dead hand.

[Blessed]

Just a question... if Jesus came back to earth right now for a visit... would he feel it necessary to have a firearm? Would he say " you can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hand?"

Some reason... I just don't think so.

[the_jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

I will never own a gun. I will never have a gun in my house. The answer to protecting yourself from gun violence is not more guns. That will only make things worse. I don't even allow my kids to have toy guns. They are not as harmless as we think.

OK, then what IS the answer to protecting yourself from gun violence?

If someone comes into your house with a gun, what can you do? Absolutely nothing, if you don't have a gun. The damage will most liely be done before the cops get there. Alarms can possibly help, but not always, as the criminal knows that response time is not immediate.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect your family WITHOUT a gun.

Generally speaking, most burglers aren't armed. Most are just punk kids or drug addicts looking for stuff to sell to buy more drugs.

For those burglars that are armed, there are other ways of fending them off. My family is the most important thing to me and there is no way I would allow them to be harmed. As far as I'm concerned, if there were a burgler in my house, armed or not, they are the ones at the disadvantage, not me.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I will never own a gun. I will never have a gun in my house. The answer to protecting yourself from gun violence is not more guns. That will only make things worse. I don't even allow my kids to have toy guns. They are not as harmless as we think.

OK, then what IS the answer to protecting yourself from gun violence?

If someone comes into your house with a gun, what can you do? Absolutely nothing, if you don't have a gun. The damage will most liely be done before the cops get there. Alarms can possibly help, but not always, as the criminal knows that response time is not immediate.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect your family WITHOUT a gun.

For those burglars that are armed, there are other ways of fending them off.

How?

Just a question... if Jesus came back to earth right now for a visit... would he feel it necessary to have a firearm? Would he say " you can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hand?"

Some reason... I just don't think so.

With all due respect, Blessed, I don't think He would need a gun. He is capable of performing miracles, after all. But I bet He would be pleased with me shooting someone who about to harm my child. Just my guess...

But I know we differ on this.

[JcDean78]

In the scriptures, the Lords people are forced to bear arms and defend themselves. When the LDS treked out West, they were forced to bear arms and defend their families. Today we must still defend our families and be prepared for anything that might happen.

This is why we have food storage, this is why we are encouraged into the scouts and to learn survival skills, and this is why we MUST have the tools and training to defend ourselves and our family.

Really there is nothing to debate. We all have the right to self defense and this is a tool that has been promised to us in the founding of this Republic to defend that right.

[BenRaines]

If God walked the earth and evil was removed from the world guns would not be necessary. I for one would not compare myself to Christ, nor would I willingly allow criminals to nail me to a cross and kill me.

I guess I have a ways to go to be Christlike.

Ben Raines

[Dr T]

Yes. Jesus about his own torture said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do."

[Blessed]

I guess I am at a loss really on this aspect of the LDS faith. This might be where our two churches split (for one of the many reasons, that is.)

My church teaches highly in the concept of Zion. That we are to be the builders of it.

In D&C 102:11a-11d it says:

11a And again, I say unto you, Sue for peace, not only the people that have smitten you, but also to all people;

11b and lift up an ensign of peace, and make a proclamation for peace unto the ends of the earth;

11c and make proposals for peace, unto those who have smitten you, according to the voice of the Spirit which is in you, and all things shall work together for your good;

11d therefore, be faithful, and, behold, and lo, I am with you even unto the end. Even so. Amen.

How can one build the Kingdom of God with his hands if he a gun in one of them?

I am not disssin' anyone who has a gun, but to me it goes against the peaceful concepts that Jesus taught and of course, this is MO.

[sixpacktr]

I must admit that the one thing that puts me off visiting the US is the thought of all those people carrying guns around with them. It seems to me that not a month goes by without a fatal shooting spree being reported in the news from the US.

GB,

I think that is a fallacy that is perpetuated throughout the world that everyday is "shootout at the OK corral" here in the US. Yes, things like Virginia Tech happen, but they aren't everyday occurences.

Reminds me of when I lived in Japan, and people used to think that we all walked around with "six guns" hanging from our waists and there were shoot outs in the streets. I'd just laugh then, and I laugh now. I feel perfectly safe walking the streets. I haven't had a shoot out in 2-3 weeks!

I do believe that the right to bear arms is a necessity for a free society. Especially ours. I personally don't think I could shoot someone (unless they threatened my family), but they don't need to know that. And sometimes the perceived threat is as good as reality.

[the_jason]

The purpose of this thread was not for me to tell people they should not carry guns. You are entitled to own a gun if you choose to do so. The point of this thread is about gun violence, not gun ownership. Yes you can own a gun for sport or to defend your family. That doesn't mean the idiot down the street won't try to kill you with his, and he is just as entitled to own his gun as you are. So how do we get the gun out of his hands? That's all I intended by this.

[JcDean78]

Well as I meantioned its about 70% of gun crimes are commited by previous fellons who can not get a gun through legal means.

CCW permits stop more crimes than can be counted. In Florida alone, the drop in crime was staggering after CCW permits were issued. Most of the time crime is stopped without a shot ever being fired.

As my Hero said it best, "Peace through strength."

[the_jason]

What is a CCW permit?

[Vanilla]

CONCEALED CARRY WEAPON

[Outshined]

Just a question... if Jesus came back to earth right now for a visit... would he feel it necessary to have a firearm? Would he say " you can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hand?"

Some reason... I just don't think so.

Christ has no need for weapons, but the scriptures indicate that his disciples were armed (remember Peter wielding a sword when they came to get Christ in the garden).